Can these problems be fixed on the Panasonic S30 plasma?.... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 05-25-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm extremely frustrated with my Pansonic 60" 1080p S30 (2011) Plasma at the moment, to the point where i refuse
to watch movies on it until most of the problems listed below are fixed. XP Here are my Final thoughts on the S30 before i get a Pro calibration using Custom & Game mode. XP


Cinema mode STINKS, with it's Super dim picture(Bluray is more forgiving, unlike DVD), nasty milky grey haze, desaturated dull colors, lack of crispness, it lacks pop, sculpt, it's a little flat and overall produces one lousy unimpressive picture at least in comparison to what i'm used to. Now, custom(HDMI set to 'GRAPHICS') is essentially cinema mode BUT with a brighter picture and no wierd awful milky haze, but because it's STILL cinema mode(sure seems like it) the colors are still desaturated, and it still doesn't have that crisp, the pop and defined picture of your normal typical Custom mode on a good SDTV or HDTV. To make things worse the gamma is on the high-ish Vs cinema mode by itself as well. Either way both modes look dull, desaturated and flat. This is more evident when gaming, both modes don't look right period. Here are my current temporary settings until i get the calibration for custum/game.


Now, I can't deal with either, so I'm looking into getting CUSTOM & GAME mode Pro calibrated(I'd love to do this myself, if it's even possible...)which are the REAL deal, the reason why many people are turned off by them MAINLY(aside from a few color inaccuracies, like the red push which is more pronounced in custum because custom actually has 'saturated' color.lol) is because of the HIGH/dark gamma, piercing bright whites and white crush which make the picture appear harsh and unatural. It's like the equivelent of covering a yummy mouth watering lolipop with dog Sh**, ok maybe that's being a bit harsh haha. Here are the following problems with custom unless i've missed anything....


Piercing Bright WHITES - (Need to be toned down)
White detail crushing/clipping - (Needs to be corrected)
HIGH gamma/dark image/black detail crush....Or is this just a brightness problem all together? - (Needs to be set to 'medium')
RED Push...aka sun burnt skin! - (RED Needs to be reduced!)
desaturated Blues - (Needs more saturation)
Pink/magneta push - (reduced or tweaked)


If these things were fixed the S30's picture quality in either custom or game mode would be amazing. As is, it's got deep black levels, good motion handeling, and it's main appeal(otherwise certain gamers wouldn't even be bothering such as myself in the first place and wouldsimply rather opt for a S60) is the 1 frame of lag via component cables and 2 frames of lag via HDMI. The low lag is what has me clinging to this set and it's the only real reason why this set along with the ST30 are still somewhat popular...otherwise i'd look into getting a 55"- 60" S60! But for now I'm dieing to get those problems above fixed. I have no idea what i'm getting myself into, how complex it can be or if it's even possible. Any Tips? A couple of users gave me a few links for a couple of color metres but i'm assuming they can't tweak gamma & whites.
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post #2 of 6 Old 05-26-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Anybody? XP Aside from the red push being treatable, can the rest be tinkered with?Maybe I'm better off skimming through the ST30 calibratio thread, then again my computer is so slow right now it would take hours trudging through all of that sea of text. sigh* lol I refuse to watch movies on this set until i get the gamma medium-ized, the red push & pink/magneta problem reduced and tone down the crazy whites. Until then, i guess I'm going to be glued to my 27" CRT.
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post #3 of 6 Old 05-27-2013, 12:13 AM
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I have Samsung pne450 and it does Not have 10 point controls- only 2.don't have a meter here. Just by eye and references.

On mine tweaking as good as I can:Tried various techniques
-I have too live with piercing whites.But I could be wrong about this.You can reduce it a little bit by lowering contrast,and warm enough color temperature in brightest brights.
- black crush- its Defenitely there, nothing can get rid of it.worse on some screens but not too too bad.
-As of today I run a dark gamma.brighter gamma gets washed out on some screens.Gamma is always changing on plasmas
- red push/magenta pink/burnt skin I reduced it a little bit,but some shows red lighting looks like that and/or broadcast that way.

I'm not saying I've figured this thing out though.I'm just tinkering around.

It is very difficult too get it looking better by eye, and adjusting white balance is very difficult.You never totally figure it out..You need a meter or calibrator.With a proper calibration you will get some good improvements.Tweaking yourself might give you a few very minor improvements.Mine looks incredible sometimes and other times like crap.Gamma always changing on plasma.
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post #4 of 6 Old 05-27-2013, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

I have Samsung pne450 and it does Not have 10 point controls- only 2.don't have a meter here. Just by eye and references.

On mine tweaking as good as I can:Tried various techniques
-I have too live with piercing whites.Nothing can fix it.You can reduce it a little bit by lowering contrast,and warm enough color temperature in brightest brights.
- black crush- its Defenitely there, nothing can get rid of it.worse on some screens but not too too bad.
-As of today I run a dark gamma.brighter gamma gets washed out on some screens.Gamma is always changing on plasmas
- red push/magenta pink/burnt skin I reduced it a little bit,but some shows red lighting looks like that and/or broadcast that way.

I'm not saying I've figured this thing out yet though.

It is very difficult too get it looking better by eye, and adjusting white balance is difficult..You need a meter or calibrator.With calibration I would say you will get some mild improvements ,but far from perfect ,as plasmas are nearly impossible too get consistently always looking good with the gamma problems.Mine looks incredible sometimes and other times like crap.Just the way it is.

Looks like you and i are practically sharing the same problems! XP Somebody in the plasma forum recommended gettin a 'C3 meter with calman 5 tutorial'

http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/calman5-bundles/c3.html

Apperantly it will fix the red push, and that nasty sevre Magneta/pink issue...Or at least I'm
hoping. If those 2 things can be corrected, that leaves us with the crazy whites which need
to be toned down and the effed up gamma(Black crush/darker picture) that needs to be adjusted to Medium/2.2. If all of these
things can get fixed i will be one HAPPY camper.lol Now the question is, can a pro calibrator get the gamma to medium/2.2 or any specific tool if you did it yourself? And any sort of toning
down with the whites would be great. it doesn't have to be perfect, but any sort of improvement would be worth it! I hate coming from a CRT and having to put up with so many problems that didn't even
exsist in on my previous SDTV...
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post #5 of 6 Old 05-27-2013, 12:50 AM
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I did edit previous post
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post #6 of 6 Old 05-27-2013, 12:58 AM
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I've been fiddling around with colors for many many years and I still can't get it figured out.Sometimes I'll fluke out and get it close but did not realize plasmas had all these gamma problems which affects color temp

You need enough red in the brightest whites too tone them down , but when you raise red gain you have to lower the red bias.Also the blue gain and bias HAVE too be set correctly too.Thats why it's difficult.You HAVE to know exactly what too look for and even then it's a never ending battle.Youll drive yourself crazy trying!!!Guaranteed!!!

I think if I can find a way to reduce flaming torch whites this thing will will look very good.just have too run a warmer temp unfortunately it gives a red push.Though lowering red bias reduces red push.

If/when you can find the right color temp too use for the brightest whites(gotta be fairly warm/red),,then it's easy- you just match the dark areas to the bright white patch with bias.Have to repeat procedure a few times as bias will affect brights and gains the darks a bit.

Sorry shouldn't say it's easy. It's never easy on plasma.If its LCD it's easy.
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