Would upgrading to Radiance 3D Mini make a noticeable difference? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I was hoping to get opinion on if upgrading my VP to Radiance 3D Mini and using 125 point calibration would result in a visible improvement.

I have a Epson TW-5500 PJ and calibrate using an I1Pro Spectro, i1 Display Pro III colorimeter, DVDO Duo VP & Chromapure Pro.
For color calibration I have found that calibrating at 75% saturation gives best overall results. See Advanced Color Management chart:




At 100% the green and red are worst, but not sure if it is worth upgrading to achieve better results? Besides the 125-color matrix, does the Radiance offer any else that is advantages over the Duo in regards to calibration?
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmunger69 View Post

I was hoping to get opinion on if upgrading my VP to Radiance 3D Mini and using 125 point calibration would result in a visible improvement.

I have a Epson TW-5500 PJ and calibrate using an I1Pro Spectro, i1 Display Pro III colorimeter, DVDO Duo VP & Chromapure Pro.
For color calibration I have found that calibrating at 75% saturation gives best overall results. See Advanced Color Management chart:




At 100% the green and red are worst, but not sure if it is worth upgrading to achieve better results? Besides the 125-color matrix, does the Radiance offer any else that is advantages over the Duo in regards to calibration?

Hi pmunger69,
Just going on the CIE chart you posted, I would say that your system is one of the ones that will benefit the most from the 125 point calibration. Your primaries appear to be over-saturated (that's good, better than being under), and the saturation sweep appears to show some non-linearity within the gamut - this is just what the multi-point calibration is designed to compensate for. If the improvement is worthwhile depends on your willingness to part with the cash, especially as you already have a VP - so you're only really getting the one improvement (but I'd say it's a big one).
Regards, Mike.
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post #3 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 11:43 AM
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There may be a second alternative.

And that is a eecolor box at much less the price of a Mini 3D, understanding that you have a DVDO Duo already.

The big draw back for your PJ is it does't have the features of a Mini or DVDO that you probably need for your PJ.
Also eecolor will not process or pass through a 3D Blu Ray movie.

eecolor box is simply a storage and processor for a 3D LUT cube type calibration and in some ways act as a Darbee.

The big plus with a eecolor box is you are not limited to a small LUT cube (125 point), it will process and store up to a 4913 point LUT cube.

If Lumagen Radiance would come out with say a Radiance Mini 3D that could store and process a LUT up to 4913 points (17^3) then I for one would buy the upgraded Radiance Mini 3D.

Radiance Mini 3D pluses.
1. A full featured processor.
2. Able to process 3D Blu Ray movies
3. A triplet pattern generator

eecolor box pluses.
1.Price.
2. Able to store and process a large LUT up to 4913 points (17^3).

ss
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post #4 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

There may be a second alternative.

And that is a eecolor box at much less the price of a Mini 3D, understanding that you have a DVDO Duo already.

The big draw back for your PJ is it does't have the features of a Mini or DVDO that you probably need for your PJ.
Also eecolor will not process or pass through a 3D Blu Ray movie.

eecolor box is simply a storage and processor for a 3D LUT cube type calibration and in some ways act as a Darbee.

The big plus with a eecolor box is you are not limited to a small LUT cube (125 point), it will process and store up to a 4913 point LUT cube.

If Lumagen Radiance would come out with say a Radiance Mini 3D that could store and process a LUT up to 4913 points (17^3) then I for one would buy the upgraded Radiance Mini 3D.

Radiance Mini 3D pluses.
1. A full featured processor.
2. Able to process 3D Blu Ray movies
3. A triplet pattern generator

eecolor box pluses.
1.Price.
2. Able to store and process a large LUT up to 4913 points (17^3).

ss
Unless you already have a pattern generator, if not, it will be more expensive. His Duo is a pattern generator, but won't support the color box.
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post #5 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 12:09 PM
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Duo can't be used for Cube Calibrations as a Pattern Generator with CalMAN because it can display only Patterns in 0-100% Percent Range. (1.000.000 Color Patterns)

You will need a Pattern Generator that can display full 0-255 bit level range patterns (or 16-235 Video Range) for cube calibrations. (16.777.216 Color Patterns)

Another alternative is to use your Notebook HDMI Out to work as a Pattern Generator, with the correct output settings, it will work. wink.gif

+ If you need to use eeColor you will have to buy CalMAN or LightSpace HCC to perform Large 3D Cube Calibrations. This will be an extra new cost for you since you are a ChromaPure PRO user.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
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post #6 of 12 Old 06-10-2013, 03:02 PM
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The simple answer is as avmike suggests...yes, it will make an obvious improvement. Quite apart from the cms stuff, Lumagen have much better signal management and scaling along with what many consider better de-interlacing, sharpness and noise reduction....However, I would consider, if at all possible, thinking about a 2021.

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post #7 of 12 Old 06-12-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for yor replies. I now need to determine if the improvements are worth the cost to me.
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post #8 of 12 Old 06-13-2013, 12:28 PM
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If you do get the Radiance, it would be a huge waste if you don't get a 3D LUT calibration. It's night and day difference.
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post #9 of 12 Old 06-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

The simple answer is as avmike suggests...yes, it will make an obvious improvement. Quite apart from the cms stuff, Lumagen have much better signal management and scaling along with what many consider better de-interlacing, sharpness and noise reduction....However, I would consider, if at all possible, thinking about a 2021.

Whats the deal. Why hasn't Lumagen come out with a box that not only will accommodate a large LUT profile (17^3) including the triplet patterns and adjustable window sizes to generate and accommodate the large LUT profiles. ?
Yes I use a Mini as a triplet pattern generator for a large profile and it works well. To a point so does eecolor box as a storage and processor for the large LUT's.
But as you know It will not pass though 3D Blu Ray movies and it only uses a 10 bit, fine for 4:4:2 but maybe not the best for 4:2:2.

ss
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post #10 of 12 Old 06-13-2013, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

If you do get the Radiance, it would be a huge waste if you don't get a 3D LUT calibration. It's night and day difference.
Yes that is the only reason I am considering the mini to replace my Duo
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-13-2013, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Whats the deal. Why hasn't Lumagen come out with a box that not only will accommodate a large LUT profile (17^3) including the triplet patterns and adjustable window sizes to generate and accommodate the large LUT profiles. ?
Yes I use a Mini as a triplet pattern generator for a large profile and it works well. To a point so does eecolor box as a storage and processor for the large LUT's.
But as you know It will not pass though 3D Blu Ray movies and it only uses a 10 bit, fine for 4:4:2 but maybe not the best for 4:2:2.

ss

What's the deal.....cost? Lumagen could i suppose bring out an fpga base device that was just a LUT holder...but that is not their Raison d'être. Who know what they do in the future but for now they do fully fledged video processers....and they do it rather well................

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post #12 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I took the plunge and purchased a mini. Looking forward to getting it, hopefully I can notice the improvement!
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