Disney WOW color calibration issues. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-14-2013, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I have having trouble getting the color calibrated using the Disney WOW disc. the furthest left and right bars I cannot get to match without turning color all the way up and when I do Blue looks crazy strong.. any advice?

Its a sharp aquos lc40-lx1
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-15-2013, 05:52 PM
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Setting colors using a blue filter almost never works... it is beginning to be stupid to even suggest using a blue filter to set color and tint controls. When I use a color filter to set color and tint controls, I get bad results 95% of the time (uding color filters from different test/setup discs).

The instructions you have probably say something like: If the results you get when using the color filter do not look perfect, make additional adjustments to the controls until the images look normal. So if you use the filter and correct errors caused by the filter using your eyes... why bother using the filter? Since the filter method fails 95% of the time, it really is a pretty worthless means of setting color and tint.

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post #3 of 14 Old 06-16-2013, 02:34 AM
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Blue only mode only works with pro monitors. It comes very much spot on to my spectro readings.

So, unless you have a colour grading monitor you can forget blue mode for accuracy.
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-16-2013, 02:39 AM
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It would be nice if we could distinguish between "blue filter method" and "primary isolation method," the mechanics of these "methods" are the same, the only difference is that one "method" of isolation is far more effective than the other. IOW, the underlying "method" is sound, it's the execution that's bad.

Then again, Sharps are like a box of choc oh luts, you never know exactly what you're going to get. wink.gif

PS: "Primary isolation" is only useful for setting color *decoding* ... and having accurate color *decoding* doesn't necessarily get you accurate REC709 colors. This is why we have CMS's and Spectro's and 3D LUTs to bypass all of the shoulda, coulda, woulda theory and go directly to the the "correct" answers.
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-16-2013, 11:05 AM
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PPS: At this point, it should be worth mentioning that in the HDMI delivered, "fully" digital world, in which we find ourselves, the traditional "Color" and "Tint" controls are useless vestigial appendages ... or *should* be. Numbers are Numbers ... they don't have voltages or phases that need to be adjusted. wink.gif
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-17-2013, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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So how do you adjust color if the blue filter doesn't work? Just sit there playing with the controls until the picture looks good?
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-18-2013, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sealteamz6 View Post

So how do you adjust color if the blue filter doesn't work? Just sit there playing with the controls until the picture looks good?

Unless the display has a built in "blue mode," I would be tempted to just leave color/tint at the default positions.

If that's not satisfactory, in times past, one might have have turned up the color control to match the white/blue bars, then set the tint control, then backed the color control down until the picture "looked right" (as in not over cooked.)
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-18-2013, 02:32 PM
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Even if the display has a built-in "blue only mode" (no filter needed), it will only work if the blue primary is accurate, so even if there is a "blue-only" mode, your final adjustment is still "by eye" with all 3 colors working.

Yes, if the blue filter method fails, you just view content and tweak color and tint until everything looks about right. You can't use crap sources though... Blu-ray movies, decent ones they spent some money on to get the technical things correct are best.

The REAL way to get accurate images on a video display is to calibrate the display. Twiddling the basic user menu controls isn't really calibration, per se. Calibration requires a meter, calibration software that is compatible with the meter being used, and a video pattern source (disc or video signal generator). Your options for calibration are to spend money on the gear needed to perform calibration and study and practice for 100 hours or more until you have the background and skills developed so you can perform a reasonably good calibration on your TV OR hire an independent professional calibrator who is likely to charge $300-$500 to spend 2.5-5 hours calibrating your video display. 3D calibration takes additional time and would be on the high end of the price range, while 2D calibration only would be towards the lower end of the range and shorter time required. 3D TVs are just like 2 TVs that just happen to be in 1 "box"... nothing you do for 2D calibration applies to 3D calibration so you have to do two complete calibrations to get 2D and 3D calibrated to be as accurate as they can be for both formats.

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post #9 of 14 Old 06-18-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Even if the display has a built-in "blue only mode" (no filter needed), it will only work if the blue primary is accurate, so even if there is a "blue-only" mode, your final adjustment is still "by eye" with all 3 colors working.

This is where the discussion veers into Color Decoding vs. Accurate REC709 Gamut territory.

When the Blue/Primary Isolation method was devised (way back in the NTSC days,) the goal was simply to get the decoding correct ... the theory/hope was that this would lead to a reasonably accurate gamut on top of a D65 greyscale. The tools to go farther were not available at any reasonable price point (for the home viewer.) Yet, we managed to survive that era just fine. wink.gif
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-19-2013, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

This is where the discussion veers into Color Decoding vs. Accurate REC709 Gamut territory.

When the Blue/Primary Isolation method was devised (way back in the NTSC days,) the goal was simply to get the decoding correct ... the theory/hope was that this would lead to a reasonably accurate gamut on top of a D65 greyscale. The tools to go farther were not available at any reasonable price point (for the home viewer.) Yet, we managed to survive that era just fine. wink.gif

at this point, do we really need to bother with blue filters/blue-only modes or can't we just use meters and calibration software to make sure both color decoding and gamut are right in one sweep?


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post #11 of 14 Old 06-19-2013, 10:54 AM
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Greetings

If you start with nothing ... then a blue filter is considered to be better than nothing. That's where the blue filter method fits in the scheme of things.

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post #12 of 14 Old 06-19-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

at this point, do we really need to bother with blue filters/blue-only modes or can't we just use meters and calibration software to make sure both color decoding and gamut are right in one sweep?

Wrong question, the question is, "What do you do if you don't have a meter and software?" smile.gif

The distinction to remember here is that color decoding is the process of turning a YCrCb value into an RGB value. This is purely a mathematical function (even in the analog domain.) It has only *one* correct answer. And that answer is what the SMPTE Color Bar Chart in combination with primary isolation was designed to solve. It doesn't really matter what the display's primary chromaticities are, the method still works to solve the decoding equations.

The problem with the above is that to have an accurate gamut and color rendition, the primary chromaticities do matter ... along with white point and gamma ...

So to answer your original question above ... maybe it helps to have the decoding equations setup correctly, maybe it doesn't ... or maybe we just bypass all of this, put an expensive 3D LUT capable video processor before the display and just manipulate the source material to match the display's setup. ... Dealer's choice. smile.gif
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-23-2013, 04:17 AM
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Some Sharps have a color gamut that is so far off that the range of the HLS controls is not enough to correct it. If yours is one of those, blue and green will look too dark. Unless you have a set of red green & blue separation filters and a disc with a 75% saturated color bar pattern and the knowledge of how to use them, calibration by a professional is the only way to make it look decent.
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post #14 of 14 Old 06-23-2013, 10:41 AM
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I have a feeling that we scared away the thread starter away a long time ago ...
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