Is this the Blu-Ray or the TV? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I am not sure how well the pictures will do here but I am wondering what this "grainy" effect is called and how to get rid of it. I'm watching a Blu-Ray disc so I wouldn't expect to see grain this bad.





It is a Panasonic Plasma display and Samsung Blu-Ray player connected via HDMI through an Onkyo receiver.

Any insight you can give would be great.
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 07:49 PM
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Panasonic plasmas can be very grainy in Standard or Vivid mode. Cinema, THX (upper models only), or Home Theater (latest models only) modes give good out of the box performance, and Custom gives good performance after calibration.
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post #3 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 07:59 PM
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Which movie is that? Transfers vary very much and some have a lot of grain; it may just be that particular BD. I recently watched Barton Fink (UK release) and it looked terrible and in fact very similar to your screenshots. (Grain wasn't the only problem with it though.)

Or do all movies on Blu-ray look like that on your display? If so I'm guessing it's a settings issue, possibly with the player.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.
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post #4 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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It is "Broken City" on Blu-ray which is a 20th Century Fox distributed movie. I do notice that kind of grain in lots of movies but will first try changing the settings around by getting on custom and lowering the brightness and contrast maybe?

I've been looking around the forum and have since come across the term "dithering" which is what it looks like. Changing the TV setting as mentioned above may help. I sit maybe 6-7 feet from the screen and can hopefully reduce it enough. I really need to find a good Blu-ray calibration disc.
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post #5 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planespotting View Post

It is "Broken City" on Blu-ray which is a 20th Century Fox distributed movie. I do notice that kind of grain in lots of movies but will first try changing the settings around by getting on custom and lowering the brightness and contrast maybe?

I've been looking around the forum and have since come across the term "dithering" which is what it looks like. Changing the TV setting as mentioned above may help. I sit maybe 6-7 feet from the screen and can hopefully reduce it enough. I really need to find a good Blu-ray calibration disc.

OK, supposedly not the best transfer although it is meant to look gritty: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Broken-City-Blu-ray/66521/#Review

As for a calibration disc, I've always used the free one at http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration. It's great for doing the basics.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.
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post #6 of 12 Old 06-19-2013, 01:22 PM
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Play a disc that is KNOWN to be an excellent grainless transfer, preferably computer animation... if that looks "smooth" then you are seeing a grain artifact in the movie that may be made more obvious by high sharpness settings or using an inappropriate viewing mode as pointed out by ChadB. If you do not have a sharpness test pattern, you need to get a disc or download a disc from AVS and burn it to play in your disc player... the sharpness test pattern will reveal if the TV (or disc player, or both) are adding sharpening artifacts that will make grain look even worse than usual.

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post #7 of 12 Old 06-19-2013, 07:41 PM
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Why do they add the grain? the worst one I've seen so far is the recent Judge Dredd. It's nasty. Even with sharpness at 0.
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post #8 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 01:21 PM
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Why did Picasso move body parts around and jumble things so that they don't look normal at all?

Why did the impressionists start painting with little dots of color instead of nice detailed lines?

Sometimes grain is unavoidable... shooting a scene with very little light (campfire, or candle light, etc.) on film requires using the slowest exposures and modified film processing chemistry to make the film "fast" enough to capture useful images and that process adds grain, unavoidably. Digital cinema cameras can shoot grainless images but it seems like they just can't let go of the grain monster and they actually add grain to otherwise non-grainy images... on purpose.

But it's not usually highly visible unless you are using bad settings or modes on your video display. The Miami Vice movie is a good example of a digitally shot movie with grain added afterwards. Looks bad all the time.

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post #9 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 02:13 PM
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There are numerous reasons why film has grain, the main being that the actual film it is recorded on contains metal deposits and grain is a function of this, another main reason is the transfer to digital process and the equipment used.

I think they also add grain to create a more natural look and also to balance the film grain levels.
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post #10 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Returned the rental of Broken City so I did not get to test changes in settings. I changed to THX picture mode and messed with the sharpness and brightness a bit. Going to watch the blu-ray of A Good Day to Die Hard tonight and will see if I notice anything.
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 05:09 PM
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Greetings

Sharpness control is disabled in the THX modes of the Panasonic plasma sets. It is a giant placebo. It does nothing. (Well virtually nothing. YOu have to be a few inches away to really see it do just a bit.)

regards

Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
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The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #12 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 07:11 PM
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The best film I've seen grain on and seems to be more fitting is Lord of the Rings. Though it's a different kind of grain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Why did Picasso move body parts around and jumble things so that they don't look normal at all?

I think HR Giger is more disturbed.
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