Why is warm mode used when calibrating? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Why is “movie” mode and “warm 2” usually used when calibrating?

It appears a TV supposed to be calibrated for 6500K white. Yet a 6500K light bulb is a long way from warm. But almost every time I see a list of settings most people start out with warm settings. Does video white look or behave differently than light bulb white?
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 06:57 PM
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I've wondered this very thing....

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post #3 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 07:07 PM
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Typically it's closest to the correct color.

Some set that have limited range for their controls may not have enough adjustment, to get to D65 if you start from cool mode.

It's just a rule of thumb, feel free to experiment with your set.

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post #4 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 07:09 PM
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Guess the better question is why is it named such as warm 2 if it's the most accurate?

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post #5 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 07:12 PM
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Color temperature settings on TVs are just starting points. Usually you use the color temp. that's closest to D65 to start your calibration, which is usually the warm or movie mode settings. Warm can sometimes be too warm out of the box, but it's usually still the closest. Sometimes using something other than warm can help improve the low-end of the grayscale. Maybe it's just that I'm used to D65, but it doesn't look 'warm' to me... it just looks right.

edit: too slow.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 07:13 PM
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Greetings

As Joel said, it's about range.


Let's say your destination is NYC .... and you could start out in NJ or Denver or Los Angeles. But if you started in Denver or Los Angeles ... chances are you run out of gas. Not enough range.

Start in NJ and you have enough gas to get to NYC.

If real life you can fill up more gas, but you can't fill up more color on the TV when your red/green/blue controls run out.


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post #7 of 16 Old 06-25-2013, 07:16 PM
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Greetings

Descriptors ... warm ... versus cool.

In a flame ... what part is the hottest and what is the coolest part? Is the blue part the coolest part? Nope ..

But we associate blue with cold ... so bluer images get called cool.

We associate red with hot ...so redder images get called warm.

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post #8 of 16 Old 06-26-2013, 02:28 PM
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Let's look at this realistically... no hypotheticals....

You might think from the names of the modes in TV menus that "standard" or "normal" or some other average sounding name would be the right choice. But when you actually measure those modes, your result is ALWAYS far too blue, typically producing color temperatures in the 9000-11,000 range.

This has been the way TVs have been delivered for generations. It's primarily so when the TV is on a wall with 50 or 100 other TVs, it looks as bright and punchy as every other TV up there. A calibrated TV in one of those walls would sell zero units because the pictures of all the others is so hyped that the CORRECT TV would look boring.

The names of the settings in the TV menu really have NOTHING to do with hour accurate the particular mode is, they are just names. They could just as well have called the modes Bob, Dinosaur, Chevy, Chardonnay, and Atlantic. Those terms would be just as descriptive as the names the manufacturers chose to use.

So lets say the TV has 5 modes... Dynamic, Action, Standard, Warm 1 and Warm 2. If Dynamic measures 12,000K, Action measures 11,000K, Standard measures 9500K, Warm 1 measures 8000K and Warm2 measures 6500K... Warm 2 is "warm" only in comparison to the other modes. Since 6500K is nominally where you want to be for color temp (not a very good spec by the way, images can have way too much green or way too much magenta and still measure 6500K). Warm2 is completely unrelated to how you look for light bulbs, for example. In the light bulb world, 6500 is about as "cool" (they often say "daylight" because 6500 is pretty close to average daylight color temp) as home light bulbs ever get.

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post #9 of 16 Old 06-26-2013, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for all the information.

I particularly liked "They could just as well have called the modes Bob, Dinosaur, Chevy, Chardonnay, and Atlantic". smile.gif
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-26-2013, 06:31 PM
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Yes, thanks!

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post #11 of 16 Old 06-27-2013, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

This has been the way TVs have been delivered for generations. It's primarily so when the TV is on a wall with 50 or 100 other TVs, it looks as bright and punchy as every other TV up there. A calibrated TV in one of those walls would sell zero units because the pictures of all the others is so hyped that the CORRECT TV would look boring.

So, whatever the brightest picture on the shop floor is the one that sells? why do they not educate people on this stuff and have all the shop tv's calibrated? because I fell foul of this for so long as well. Just accepting out of box modes or whatever it was set at. I never started discovering this stuff until Christmas there. Or using other peoples settings in previous years until discovering the AVS 709 patterns.

That was also another fault I fell into from forums and word of mouth how so many developed bad habits and said warm2 was too yellow and throws off the colours. When Normal and others looks too cold.

Still to this day I see shop tv's on display and the skin tones are all bleached, crazy white spots on their foreheads and pinks showing through the contrast on skin tones like halo rings and on white clothes. Yet so many people I have watched go wow. How incredibly lifelike.

So many people out there seem to think burning the backsides out of your eyes and neon colours is a great picture.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-27-2013, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

So, whatever the brightest picture on the shop floor is the one that sells? why do they not educate people on this stuff and have all the shop tv's calibrated? because I fell foul of this for so long as well. Just accepting out of box modes or whatever it was set at. I never started discovering this stuff until Christmas there. Or using other peoples settings in previous years until discovering the AVS 709 patterns.

That was also another fault I fell into from forums and word of mouth how so many developed bad habits and said warm2 was too yellow and throws off the colours. When Normal and others looks too cold.

Still to this day I see shop tv's on display and the skin tones are all bleached, crazy white spots on their foreheads and pinks showing through the contrast on skin tones like halo rings and on white clothes. Yet so many people I have watched go wow. How incredibly lifelike.

So many people out there seem to think burning the backsides out of your eyes and neon colours is a great picture.

Have you ever talked to the people in the Big Box stores? Have you ever noticed the people in there buying the TVs? Where I live more people than not can't even speak properly let alone understand or for that matter even care about this type of thing.
Here is a great article on Why TVs are not Calibrated from the factory. http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs-are-not-calibrated-from-factory/
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-27-2013, 05:13 AM
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Because it's warmer than other mode cool.gif.
Though D65 is industry standard, Cool white is more eye-catching, brighter in the store than 6500K white, which help selling TV .
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-27-2013, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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When I was at the Big Box store the sales person I spoke with did appear fairly knowledgeable. I know, hard to believe. No remotes were laying around - I guess they don't want customers adjusting the TVs. I had him go through the various menu settings using the small button built into the bottom of the TV.

When we finished he put the TV back into "torch" mode. I asked why he did that instead of leaving it in one of the other modes we looked at.

He said because the manufacturer pays them & wants the TV in that mode because it helps it stand out & attract customers.

Just a couple weeks before that at the same Big Box store I asked how come a certain size model was not on display. The salesperson at that time said the manufacturer pays them to display certain models. I previously thought it must be costly for the store to display all those TVs because they have to change them every year when new models come out.

I don't know how much the manufacturers pay & maybe it's the full cost of the display units. But it appears I can't blame the store for the "torch" settings.
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-27-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Have you ever talked to the people in the Big Box stores? Have you ever noticed the people in there buying the TVs? Where I live more people than not can't even speak properly let alone understand or for that matter even care about this type of thing.
Here is a great article on Why TVs are not Calibrated from the factory. http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs-are-not-calibrated-from-factory/

Sadly I have not.

As for the calibrating part, I meant the shops having their tv's calibrated to show people what's bad and whats good. Good as in the industry standard, not personal good. Like a demo, one calibrated, one not for each model/manufacturer in their stores rather than having every tv from every manufacturer calibrated. Anytime I've been in tv stores back to the CRT tv days, my eyes always hurt in these stores because everything is ramped up. The sharpness was horrendous as well. It always reminded me of jpg artifacts or somebody went crazy with the sharpen filter in Photoshop.

It's one of the reasons back to 1989 I always thought Batman was so dark and blue because I never knew about colour balance until 2006. Though I was only just starting to learn about PC displays. I always remember how so many people complained how dark Batman 89 was. Yet when I watch it to this day with a properly setup screen, the film aint that dark. A lot of grey mist but the film is no longer what I remember seeing back in 89/90/91. Thinking back it almost reminded me of Doom3, everything was so black you nearly couldn't see anything. A lot of eye strain.


Heh! stupid me.
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This game is about selling TVs, it is not about accuracy. And the sooner one gets that through their head, the easier life gets. Accurate images don’t sell to uneducated masses.


Plus as, Mike99 summed up. I guess thats it. Personally it just sounds like a daft ideology. I guess thats why we have, look at the pretty picture!
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post #16 of 16 Old 07-01-2013, 05:48 AM
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click on details of Colour Temperature it will explain why we need to choose warm 2.


http://www.avforums.com/home/pictureperfect_step2.html
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