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post #1 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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i havent posted in a while. and it seems that the forum has changed some, if this is the wrong section please forgive and moderators move it.

i have owned an lg 47lg70 for years it is a great tv. it had the isfccc options in the menu. i am currently in the market for a plasma after owning nothing but lcd and led for the last several years.

i have noticed that with the panasonic plasmas that the only model that offers isfccc options is the top of the line vt series.

is the isfccc options necessary for calibration?

is it worth almost double the cost of a tv for a casual watcher ( ie just a handful of movies per week, a few sporting events a year ) to get the high end vt series just to get the isfccc options?


when i had my lcd calibrated it made a world of difference in the pq. so i can see the importance of it, but at double cost on the same size of tv, not sure if i would want that or not.

thanks for the input!!
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post #2 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 07:14 AM
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Greetings

ISF options in the tv ... the only difference is that they allow you to lock the settings after you are done. There are no magic controls that are available there and no where else in the TV.

So even if TVs don't have ISF areas ... they calibrate fine. Sony, Sharp, Samsung ... all don't have the ISF stuff ... and they all calibrate just fine if not better in some cases.

The Panasonic ST and other not ISF sets calibrate fine ... but the lower down the ladder for TVs the fewer calibration controls you will find. The entry level sets would be expected to have fewer options than the top of the line ones.

The ISF interface in the Panasonic sets is merely the custom/professional mode copied over two more times. So the custom mode offers the same controls ... albeit not lockable. Lockability really doesn't mean much to most people ... (when any camera on a phone can just record the settings for safe keeping.)

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post #3 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

ISF options in the tv ... the only difference is that they allow you to lock the settings after you are done. There are no magic controls that are available there and no where else in the TV.

On recent LG models, the only way to get at the 10pt or 20pt greyscale is to use the "isf Expert" modes ... also on the LCDs you might get both horizontal and vertical "sharpness" controls, which actually may turn out to be useful ... depending.

I'm guessing you don't get a lot of calls for LG's since the videophilliacs appear to be avoiding them like the plague ... must be the "budget pricing" curse. wink.gifbiggrin.gif .... Their loss. smile.gif
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post #4 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 11:19 AM
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Greetings

The Expert modes are just open modes available to everyone ... they really only become ISF modes when you lock them.

Until you do that, they are just like custom modes and the options are available to anyone that wants to play there.

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post #5 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hdtv47lg70 View Post

i havent posted in a while. and it seems that the forum has changed some, if this is the wrong section please forgive and moderators move it.

i have owned an lg 47lg70 for years it is a great tv. it had the isfccc options in the menu. i am currently in the market for a plasma after owning nothing but lcd and led for the last several years.

i have noticed that with the panasonic plasmas that the only model that offers isfccc options is the top of the line vt series.

is the isfccc options necessary for calibration?

is it worth almost double the cost of a tv for a casual watcher ( ie just a handful of movies per week, a few sporting events a year ) to get the high end vt series just to get the isfccc options?


when i had my lcd calibrated it made a world of difference in the pq. so i can see the importance of it, but at double cost on the same size of tv, not sure if i would want that or not.

thanks for the input!!

The vt isn't the top of the line the ZT is. So the top 2 have not just the best. Half of their plasmas do


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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post #6 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 02:50 PM
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Be aware that it looks like this year is the last year for Panasonic plasma TVs... no more will be made next year.

There is an issue with Panasonic plasmas that annoys a lot of owners... the TV may appear to have great black levels (very dark) when new (in the "better" product lines like VT and ZT series especially but this issue also affects the lower priced lines also). But over time, Panasonic slowly raises the black level so the blacks are not as black as they were when the TV was new. How fast does this happen and how far does it go? Nobody is saying exactly how much luminance blacks gain with, say, 50,000 hours on the panel, but there is evidence that the black levels begin to rise in the 1000-2000 hours of use range... increments have gotten smaller but, presumably, are more frequent. Early on the jumps were large enough tor owners to detect fairly easily. This annoys a lot of owners who purchased Panasonic only because the blacks were blacker than Samsung or LG models. Samsung and LG start out with blacks that are not as dark as Panasonic blacks for comparable models, but Samsung and LG do not appear to raise the black levels over the life of the TV.

Then there's the issue of brightness limiting... if you display a very small 100% white square in the center of a plasma screen and measure it at 40 foot-Lamberts, then switch to a pattern that fills the entire screen with 100% white, you will measure only about 15-17 foot-Lamberts because of brightness limiting to reduce electricity use and heat generation in the panel. You cannot turn that off. It is part of plasma technology. LCD TVs do not do that. Fortunately, it's not particularly obvious when viewing typical content. But hockey fans and winter Olympics fans find the nearly all-white screens tend to look dull, especially compared to LCD. On the other hand, LCD TVs don't do motion quite as well as plasma, and sitting off center when viewing an LCD TV causes blacks to turn gray and whites to get dimmer, so the best seats in the house are directly on-center with an LCD panel while a plasma looks good from any angle. It's a technological conundrum that there's no easy answer to. People think OLED (organic LED rather than inorganic LEDs that we all know and love) might be the solution, but I wonder... things that are inorganic tend not to decompose or degrade over decades of use. But we all know that everything organic has a shelf-life... organic things "decay" much faster than inorganic (i.e. mineral based) things. Will that be true for OLED TVs? Nobody is saying, and I can't even recall hearing or reading of that question being asked of manufacturers who are considering OLED video displays.

The plasma arena, after this year, will have only Samsung and LG unless either of those have decided to quit plasma also.

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post #7 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 04:31 PM
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@Doug Blackburn

False...The Panny insider over at HDJ mentioned that they are indeed working on 2014 Plasma's.

Samsung 60F8500
Panasonic 55GT30
Panasonic BDT310
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info guys!!!
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post #9 of 17 Old 06-26-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post


I'm guessing you don't get a lot of calls for LG's since the videophilliacs appear to be avoiding them like the plague ... must be the "budget pricing" curse. wink.gifbiggrin.gif .... Their loss. smile.gif

A few years ago I was doing a bunch of LGs, mainly LH90s and PK550s but others also. Lately, though, I only do one every couple months or so. I really loved the 55LHX and LH90, and the PK550 was a decent budget plasma for it's time. Surprisingly, LG's latest flagship plasmas are absolutely no better than the PK550.

I wouldn't mind getting a few more calls for the top LG LED sets.

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post #10 of 17 Old 06-27-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

A few years ago I was doing a bunch of LGs, mainly LH90s and PK550s but others also. Lately, though, I only do one every couple months or so. I really loved the 55LHX and LH90, and the PK550 was a decent budget plasma for it's time. Surprisingly, LG's latest flagship plasmas are absolutely no better than the PK550.

I wouldn't mind getting a few more calls for the top LG LED sets.

Yeah ... it seems like LG has pretty much declared plasma to be at EOL. The latest models may have even taken a few cost saving steps backward ... fewer inputs ... although I saw a post two that indicated they might have gone to the a full 3D HSL CMS. Can't confirm that since they stopped publishing full user manuals.

Anyway, I just meant that it seems like most folks that buy LG's seem to be content to go with the "copy someone else's settings" method of "calibration," rather than the "hire a top-tier pro," method. wink.gif
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-27-2013, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

People think OLED (organic LED rather than inorganic LEDs that we all know and love) might be the solution, but I wonder... things that are inorganic tend not to decompose or degrade over decades of use. But we all know that everything organic has a shelf-life... organic things "decay" much faster than inorganic (i.e. mineral based) things. Will that be true for OLED TVs? Nobody is saying, and I can't even recall hearing or reading of that question being asked of manufacturers who are considering OLED video displays..

I'm pretty sure I saw an article somewhere around here that indicated that the rapid decay of some of the organics is the one big thing that's still keeping OLED off of the shelves. Something about changing the stacking order of the layers in the panel to help protect the organics from decay or at least slow it down... ???
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-27-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Be aware that it looks like this year is the last year for Panasonic plasma TVs... no more will be made next year.

There is an issue with Panasonic plasmas that annoys a lot of owners... the TV may appear to have great black levels (very dark) when new (in the "better" product lines like VT and ZT series especially but this issue also affects the lower priced lines also). But over time, Panasonic slowly raises the black level so the blacks are not as black as they were when the TV was new. How fast does this happen and how far does it go? Nobody is saying exactly how much luminance blacks gain with, say, 50,000 hours on the panel, but there is evidence that the black levels begin to rise in the 1000-2000 hours of use range... increments have gotten smaller but, presumably, are more frequent. Early on the jumps were large enough tor owners to detect fairly easily. This annoys a lot of owners who purchased Panasonic only because the blacks were blacker than Samsung or LG models. Samsung and LG start out with blacks that are not as dark as Panasonic blacks for comparable models, but Samsung and LG do not appear to raise the black levels over the life of the TV.

My personal 2012 65VT50 with 2400 hours measures 0.0022 FtL - no appreciable rise

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post #13 of 17 Old 06-27-2013, 08:57 AM
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@Doug Blackburn

False...The Panny insider over at HDJ mentioned that they are indeed working on 2014 Plasma's.

Check out post 6663 over there. Panasonic is bailing out of PDP.

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I think we all need to examine the realities in CE. And I'll make bold TRUE statements because I'm not afraid of consequences. Ill always just tell it how it is and these aren't up for debate. It's just facts. Idc of anyone wants to accept them because it won't change.
The company is leaving pdp soon.
If any other company wishes to carry on the pdp torch go right ahead.
CE sales are less and less each year. Soon you arrive at the approach Sony has taken. A budget model you abuse in price.A mid tier. And 1 flagship full of margin..Or you simply leave CE completely and focus on business applications and manufacturing. Which is insanely profitable.

Led is going to soon be the only choice for TV. And then oled. That's it. Accept it.buy a bunch of pdp and keep them in a box for later use if you want one for awhile.

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post #14 of 17 Old 06-27-2013, 08:42 PM
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Check out post 6663 over there. Panasonic is bailing out of PDP.

Main excerpt:

Do you know whether Samsung and LG are planning the same any time soon?
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post #15 of 17 Old 06-28-2013, 12:19 AM
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Do you know whether Samsung and LG are planning the same any time soon?

Couldn't say, but consider that LG is currently down to three basic Plasma models, a 720p, a 1080p and a 3D 1080p all of which appear to be essentially the same as their 2010/2011 (PK550 era) offerings ... with fewer inputs and no frills (i.e. "smart TV" stuff, except perhaps on the 3D's) ... that being said, there's some insane, dare I say unprecedented, deals on them right now. So, read the tea dregs?
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post #16 of 17 Old 06-30-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Couldn't say, but consider that LG is currently down to three basic Plasma models, a 720p, a 1080p and a 3D 1080p all of which appear to be essentially the same as their 2010/2011 (PK550 era) offerings ... with fewer inputs and no frills (i.e. "smart TV" stuff, except perhaps on the 3D's) ... that being said, there's some insane, dare I say unprecedented, deals on them right now. So, read the tea dregs?

then the only company I'm concerned about is Samsung... the LG plasma offerings seem bleak at this point and they were also the worst of the three in terms of black levels (Panasonic, Samsung, LG)... which is my opinion is the main reason to go with plasma vs. most LED-LCDs on the market today

Samsung's flagship F8500 did get 60 fL (or more, I can't remember) for it's day mode, which could make a a real contender for the average TV buyer who wants a bright image... I wonder if the mid range and lower offerings from Samsung are equally bright.
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-30-2013, 11:50 PM
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then the only company I'm concerned about is Samsung... the LG plasma offerings seem bleak at this point and they were also the worst of the three in terms of black levels (Panasonic, Samsung, LG)...

OTOH, they (LGs) have calibration controls that frankly should make every other CE manufacturer scurry away and hide in total shame. biggrin.gif
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