question about eye adjustment - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-07-2013, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone.
I just bought a samsung 40F6400.
I found the skin tones to be a little too reddish for my tastes ( in sky hd) and non-advanced menu like color tone and flesh tone did not make enough difference in that regard, so i tried to use the white balance in order to fix it.
I don't have a colorimeter and i don't know how to properly calibrate (tried to read some guides but they are too long and complicated) so i used just the eyes and tweaked the RGB Gain and Offset a bit: after many tries i have just lowered green and slighty uppered the blue in RGB Gain and left RGB Offset controls untouched.
I know it's not scietific calibration, but i'm happy with the result; the only concern is that now i'm worried that by turning those menu up and down so rapidly to see the effects on the colors, i may have somewhat damaged the tv.
Is it possible to damage a screen just by calibration of white balance "by eyes" or the worst thing that can happen is a badly calibrated display?
thanks
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post #2 of 16 Old 07-07-2013, 02:21 PM
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No damage to the TV just the image accuracy. RGB gains without a meter is probably more damaging than good, set them back to default. Down load the AVS 709 disk and set the basic controls and you are done.
Good luck

Doug

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post #3 of 16 Old 07-07-2013, 02:39 PM
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TV no ​​damage, but you did a good debugging, a closer look at the manual.
Good luck.
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post #4 of 16 Old 07-07-2013, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks to both
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post #5 of 16 Old 07-08-2013, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

No damage to the TV just the image accuracy. RGB gains without a meter is probably more damaging than good, set them back to default. Down load the AVS 709 disk and set the basic controls and you are done.
Good luck

You are correct in that it probably made the image worse, calibration wise. Though, if there is no intent to ever buy proper equipment, and the topicstarter is happy with the image after the tweaks, no need to set them to default. If calibration is not the goal, then just make a pretty picture, nothing wrong with that.
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post #6 of 16 Old 07-08-2013, 02:11 PM
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I guess I do not understand the adjustments you made.... you said the picture was a little too red.

To make the picture less red, you could adjust the Red Gain control lower

OR

You could adjust the Green and Blue Gain controls higher.

But you lowered Green and raised Blue. That should make the images have too much magenta (because the images already had too much red... you added blue and that with the excess red will create magenta... and you lowered Green which will ALSO raise the amount of magenta in the image... a "perfect" magenta color has equal amounts of red and blue).

Why didn't you simply select a "cooler" color temperature from the menu... Samsung TVs often have Warm2, Warm1, Neutral (or something like that, maybe Natural, I forget) and maybe Cool1 and Cool2). If you are using Warm2, you may find that Warm1 is OK or maybe the Normal/Neutral setting would be OK.

Usually you will get in trouble adjusting gain or offset controls without a meter because the human eye is easy to fool... and that is why black&white and color optical illusions exist... because human vision is NOT perfect. Even when we know we are looking at an illusion, we cannot stop it, we will always see the illusion. Your eyes cannot be trusted to adjust/calibrate a TV but they are "better than nothing" I suppose.

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-08-2013, 04:00 PM
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Later in the evening in a dark room Try putting on a color bar pattern((like when tv station goes off air) with color control at zero.(warm2).See if one color stands out. Do you see color in darkest few bars or lighter bars?What color is it? The bias controls the darkest few bars,and the gains control the lighter bars.The key is just look at it for a minute(not too long).If you don't see any color,then don't adjust anything.You dont want too move the controls very much.just a click or 2.and only 1 color.

Then try watching different commercials or regular tv with color control at zero and see if you see any color.Full white screen is adjusted with gains on mine.Youll drive yourself nuts trying to get it right unless your a really good learner.
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-09-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I guess I do not understand the adjustments you made.... you said the picture was a little too red.

To make the picture less red, you could adjust the Red Gain control lower

OR

You could adjust the Green and Blue Gain controls higher.

But you lowered Green and raised Blue. That should make the images have too much magenta (because the images already had too much red... you added blue and that with the excess red will create magenta... and you lowered Green which will ALSO raise the amount of magenta in the image... a "perfect" magenta color has equal amounts of red and blue).

Why didn't you simply select a "cooler" color temperature from the menu... Samsung TVs often have Warm2, Warm1, Neutral (or something like that, maybe Natural, I forget) and maybe Cool1 and Cool2). If you are using Warm2, you may find that Warm1 is OK or maybe the Normal/Neutral setting would be OK.

Usually you will get in trouble adjusting gain or offset controls without a meter because the human eye is easy to fool... and that is why black&white and color optical illusions exist... because human vision is NOT perfect. Even when we know we are looking at an illusion, we cannot stop it, we will always see the illusion. Your eyes cannot be trusted to adjust/calibrate a TV but they are "better than nothing" I suppose.

By "little too red" i was referring mainly to the skin tones: in many shows it looks like everyone is tanned.
I tried the color temperature menu like cool, warm, neutral but they didn't make that much of a difference on skin tones to my eyes; i currently use "standard" (neutral) in the "movie" preset.
I also tried to lower the red like you said (first thing i thought), but i found myself enjoying more the image with the adjustment i made.

Anyway i have put white balance to default and i think i'll use a calibration disk, on another forum someone suggested Disney WOW Blu Ray.
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post #9 of 16 Old 07-09-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluvoxamine View Post

By "little too red" i was referring mainly to the skin tones: in many shows it looks like everyone is tanned.
I tried the color temperature menu like cool, warm, neutral but they didn't make that much of a difference on skin tones to my eyes; i currently use "standard" (neutral) in the "movie" preset.
I also tried to lower the red like you said (first thing i thought), but i found myself enjoying more the image with the adjustment i made.

Anyway i have put white balance to default and i think i'll use a calibration disk, on another forum someone suggested Disney WOW Blu Ray.

if skin tones look too red and using a cooler color temp doesn't help, trying lowering the 'color' control a bit


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post #10 of 16 Old 07-10-2013, 03:07 PM
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Jumping back to square 1 -- what picture settings are you using? Vivid/Dynamic? Standard? Home Theater/Cinema?

On most TVs, the cinema setting is the best and most accurate. It's a lot warmer (reddish/yellowish) than people are used to, but it's more accurate and your eyes will adjust.
As others have said, you can back off from Warm 2 to Warm 1, etc.. But the color temp will affect the white balance (how whites, sky/clouds, all colors) look, not just skin tone.

But be sure to try different viewing material, because sometimes it will be a very tan person, or the colors in the source material are boosted on purpose, or it could be bad lighting. If you try to compensate for how one channel/program looks, it could backfire and make something else look much worse.

Hope that helps.

Why using other people's TV settings is a
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-10-2013, 11:23 PM
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Clouds and waterfalls are also good for getting the bright whites better,however it depends how much overall brightness is on the screen(how active the ABL is),as that alters the colors,gamma,luminance.

In order to do it good you have to know exactly what to look for .You have to know which controls too adjust on certain screens.And your eyes need too be really working accurate.If your wanting it calibrated and you have the money I would find a good calibrator or get a meter.Its like looking for a needle in a gigantic haystack.
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-11-2013, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Jumping back to square 1 -- what picture settings are you using? Vivid/Dynamic? Standard? Home Theater/Cinema?

On most TVs, the cinema setting is the best and most accurate. It's a lot warmer (reddish/yellowish) than people are used to, but it's more accurate and your eyes will adjust.
As others have said, you can back off from Warm 2 to Warm 1, etc.. But the color temp will affect the white balance (how whites, sky/clouds, all colors) look, not just skin tone.

But be sure to try different viewing material, because sometimes it will be a very tan person, or the colors in the source material are boosted on purpose, or it could be bad lighting. If you try to compensate for how one channel/program looks, it could backfire and make something else look much worse.

Hope that helps.

I'm using the movie preset and switched to "standard" color tone from "warm 2".
I have to say that i'm a bit confused cause in a few movies (sky hd) skin tones looked fine, but many others have way too much tanned look.
Also youtube videos on the smart tv app look good, so i'm beginning to think that maybe some sky shows have oversaturated colors by default or maybe it's normal and i'm just not used to it.
With the avs 709 disk will i be able to set color in a basic way (with the tint control maybe) or i need colorimeter anyway?
I also have an RGB only mode in this tv, if it can be of any help.
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-11-2013, 09:42 AM
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Some movies/shows just have very saturated colors, and/or very tan (and/or darker skinned) people.
Color (balance) is very hard to set, even with the color filters, although you can adjust the saturation up/down a little. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just realize that the colors in every show and movie are going to be different.

Why using other people's TV settings is a
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post #14 of 16 Old 07-11-2013, 11:44 AM
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I was wondering if the Original poster would mind change the name of this thread to "eye Adjustment" as there is nothing being "calibrated" by eye, it is a more accurate title.

Doug

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post #15 of 16 Old 07-11-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

I was wondering if the Original poster would mind change the name of this thread to "eye Adjustment" as there is nothing being "calibrated" by eye, it is a more accurate title.

Done.

English is not my native language, so sorry for other possible inaccuracies in the replies.
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post #16 of 16 Old 07-11-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Fluvoxamine View Post

Done.

English is not my native language, so sorry for other possible inaccuracies in the replies.

No worries!
In the past there have been threads with titles like that which started big long arguments that were not real productive.. just wanted to try and avoid having that happen.

Doug

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