Hardware Pattern Generators vs. Blu-Ray Disk Patterns Comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 07-27-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm opening this topic for Hardware Pattern Generators Users, like Lumagen/Accupel/Quantum Data/VideoForge, that are curious to see what's the difference of the patterns that are generated from their External Hardware Generators vs. their Actual Blu-Ray Player using a Pattern Disk.

For anyone who want to test this to his system, please check the following things to help all data's that will be collected to be valid & uniform:

1) Be sure that the Color Space Output is the same to both Blu-Ray Player / External Pattern Generator.

2) Use the Same Settings / Same HDMI Input of your Display / Projector. You don't need to have this input you will measure calibrated.

3) Use Only Full Field Patterns without Labels (including Plasma users also) Because Window Patterns will not match exactly at their size between disks/pattern generators. (Plasma Displays are not reallt recommended for this test.)

4) Disable all Display's Enhancements before measuring.

5) Reset to Unity if you are using a Lumagen/eeColor in Chain. Disable Darbee Processing also.

6) Use only unprofilled colorimeter, not a spectro, we don't care about the dE your display have, we care only with the dE Differencies that the 2 patterns sources will have.

7) Run a 21-Step Grayscale, 4-Step Luminance & 4-Step Saturation with ChromaPure or 5/10-Step Saturation/Luninance with CalMAN.

8) Use only Pattern Disks that are it's encoding is based to Each Software Engine Targets. For Example Don't use AVSHD Disk Pattern for this Test, not because the disk has any problem, it's patterns are 100% accurate, but they have as slight difference between the targets the software solutions are generating with external pattern generators.

Ofcourse the disk can be used for any Calibrations using ChromaPure or CalMAN but not be used for this test because the AVSHD Patterns RGB Triplets are +1 -1 Level different from each software calculation engine. Color Gamut 100% Saturation with 75%/100% Can be used becasue they have the same RGB Triplet Levels. 4-Saturation Patterns have bigger differencies and it's not recommended for this test.

A Quick Example of Grayscale Patches of AVSHD Disk vs. CalMAN/ChromaPure Targets is here:



AGAIN: This difference in Grayscale Levels will show only differencies when you will compare a Pattern Generator with a Disk Pattern Source. No difference if you are using the AVSHD Disk for Display Calibrations.
AVSHD Disk has been tested with Waveform Monitors or by extracting the Original Pattern Files form it's Video Files and has none problem to any pattern. 100% Accurate.

If the other disk creators are reading this, please confirm which targets you used at your disks, to help us out selecting the correct disk for each Measuring Software.
Mid-Next Months I will release my LightSpace Calibration Disk that will have Patterns Based to ChromaPure + CalMAN Calculation Engines, but it will have only Large Window 11,11% ''Lumagen Size'' Patterns without Labels, so it will be usefull only for Lumagen Radiance Comparison.

The User Posted Test Results will help by creating a Database of Blu-Ray Players with their difference with various external pattern generator, by helping users to decide if they will be use a Disk or an Enternal Pattern Generatar for it's future calibrations.
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post #2 of 6 Old 08-08-2013, 01:03 AM
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Good post. To add some math to this:

The correct level for 5% would be (235 - 16) * 5 / 100 + 16 = 26.95. So obviously CalMAN and ChromaPure round the calculated level, while AVSHD truncates it. In comparison the madVR test pattern generator uses dithering to actually show 26.95. So we have 3 different approaches here.

In real life nothing of this matters, if (and only if !!) the calibration software knows exactly which level is being measured. I suppose both CalMAN and ChromaPure know that they are measuring 8bit value 27 and not 26.95, so no problem there, as long as CalMAN and ChromaPure take into account that they're not actually measuring 5%, but instead 5.02283105%. However, the AVSHD disc is problematic, I think, because movies are not usually encoded by using truncating!!

Edit: Also, by using rounding you have a max error of 0.4999, but when using truncating you have a max error of 0.9999.
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post #3 of 6 Old 08-08-2013, 02:39 AM
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Pattern disc for Blu-Ray player and Chromapure : recommended is Mascior's pattern disc. See here.

Panasonic TX-P42GT50E, Oppo 103, Schiit Vali, Denon AHD2000 + Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3, Phonak Audeo 121, Vsonic GR07, Fiio E17, Cowon S9, XLO cables :: CalMAN 5 Enthusiast,Chromapure Standard, i1D3, i1Display 2, TED's Calibration Blu Ray Disc v1.0 & v1.1
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post #4 of 6 Old 08-08-2013, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW with CalMAN Level Editor you can enter the above AVSHD Level Values to create a new 21-Step Grayscale.
So after doing this, your Grayscale steps will be bit-perfect and the calculations will be 100% correct too. wink.gif


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post #5 of 6 Old 08-08-2013, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Good post. To add some math to this:

The correct level for 5% would be (235 - 16) * 5 / 100 + 16 = 26.95. So obviously CalMAN and ChromaPure round the calculated level, while AVSHD truncates it. In comparison the madVR test pattern generator uses dithering to actually show 26.95. So we have 3 different approaches here.

In real life nothing of this matters, if (and only if !!) the calibration software knows exactly which level is being measured. I suppose both CalMAN and ChromaPure know that they are measuring 8bit value 27 and not 26.95, so no problem there, as long as CalMAN and ChromaPure take into account that they're not actually measuring 5%, but instead 5.02283105%. However, the AVSHD disc is problematic, I think, because movies are not usually encoded by using truncating!!

Edit: Also, by using rounding you have a max error of 0.4999, but when using truncating you have a max error of 0.9999.

what approach does the Spears and Munsil 2nd Edition use?


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post #6 of 6 Old 08-09-2013, 09:25 PM
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My disc was created using the round nearest method or for software that assumes integer percentages.

 

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