CMS calibration on VT60 - AVS Forum

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Display Calibration

nw06's Avatar nw06
07:17 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 16
08-05-2013 | Posts: 28
Joined: Jul 2011
Hi

I have had a first crack at calibrating my 55vt60 with Calman & an i1Pro, but am struggling on the CMS side, particularly with the saturation of blue. All of the other primaries line up at 100%, but blue remains WAY undersaturated, no matter what I do, and looks very obvious on the test pattern.



I crank up the blue deltaC to the max, and it barely budges. I noticed that the THX Cinema mode is way off on blue also.

Any tips on how I correct this?? I have seen other calibration reports of the VT60 with perfect colours all round, so it has to be my method, or I have a dodgy TV. Incidentally, am I able to measure the lower saturation levels of 25%-75% with Calman Control? I only seemed to be able to measure at 100%.

Cheers

Nathan
Chad B's Avatar Chad B
11:08 PM Liked: 539
post #2 of 16
08-05-2013 | Posts: 2,158
Joined: Oct 2002
None of the VT60s I've done have been anywhere near that bad. Give us some more info: source, signal path, HDMI color space, meter positioning, etc.

The blue primary is the least accurate measurement for the i1Pro spectro; it tends to be a little off compared to reference spectros, but not by much.
nw06's Avatar nw06
06:35 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 16
08-06-2013 | Posts: 28
Joined: Jul 2011
- Oppo 93 set to YCbCr 4:4:4 ➡Anthem MRX500 receiver in 'through' mode ➡ VT60 configured to REC709 colour space.
- Meter was positioned centre of screen in direct contact mode for a good few hours.

The i1Pro, is second hand, so I can't vouch for it's absolute accuracy, but it seems fine with GS readings. I have just got a new i1 Display Pro, so I will try that too, too see if it gives radically different colour readings.
I also just realised that my Calman settings were configured for 100% luminance patterns, but I think I was feeding it 75% patterns (CMS HD disk). Would that screw up all the readings anyway?
sillysally's Avatar sillysally
07:06 PM Liked: 272
post #4 of 16
08-06-2013 | Posts: 3,789
Joined: Jun 2006
Updated

If you can output RGB video (16-235) , do a profile for your meters, use your I1pro as your reference meter, use your D3 as your active meter. If at all possible use off screen mode. Back up your I1pro about 14" when profiling and your D3 about 10" off screen. Once Calman has profiled your meters leave your D3 meter in the same spot when you just profiled. use 75% for everything exccept of-course for the 100% white.

Now to check to see if your VT60 has a problem with Blue, use the top link in my sig for settings and make sure all your other detail settings and Gamma are at default (0). Then just run the CIE charts (CMS, RGBCMY) and see where Blue ends up. It should be much closer to the Blue box. If you want post your CIE chart.

ss

This is a very detailed LUT/calibration using 4913 point as opposed to a normal calibration like what you are doing.
Also this LUT is linear in it's response throughout the cube, this is something that probably is very hard if at all to achieve in a normal calibration.


nw06's Avatar nw06
06:35 AM Liked: 10
post #5 of 16
08-09-2013 | Posts: 28
Joined: Jul 2011
Ok, managed to get some more time to test this again, but now I am just not sure if it is just my i1PRO is not in spec!

GS and colorspace in professional picture mode out of the box, as measured by i1Display PRO:



Compared to 11PRO:



As you can see, GS readings seem to line up fairly closely between the two meters, but color readings are markedly different. There is an especially big difference with blue. Given the readings from the brand new i1Display Pro are more what you would expect from a VT60 (i.e. good), I am now concerned that my i1PRO is a dud, and should not be trusted (secondhand and last calibrated in 2008 according to i1Diagnostics).

Hmmm, should I just go with the i1PRO, or does it look suspicious enough to just go with the i1Dispay meter on it's own?
JimP
05:50 AM Liked: 229
post #6 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 15,617
Joined: Sep 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by nw06 View Post

...snip...

As you can see, GS readings seem to line up fairly closely between the two meters, but color readings are markedly different. There is an especially big difference with blue. Given the readings from the brand new i1Display Pro are more what you would expect from a VT60 (i.e. good), I am now concerned that my i1PRO is a dud, and should not be trusted (secondhand and last calibrated in 2008 according to i1Diagnostics).

Hmmm, should I just go with the i1PRO, or does it look suspicious enough to just go with the i1Dispay meter on it's own?


I have the same problem with my 65VT50 using Calman 5, i1pro2 and i1display3pro.

However, when I use Chromapure, this very low blue saturation is non existent. Blue calibrates out just fine without maxing out the display's control.

I thought maybe Calman wasn't calling up the right pattern on my signal generator, an Accupel 5000 so I used the signal generator in a manual mode calling up patterns independent of Calman. The problem still exist.

Oh, I failed to mention that a calibrator with a Klein 10 using Calman 3 also had this problem on this display last week.

And as I recall, back last November when I tried out Calman 4....well it had the same issue.

The only possibility that I see is with the Calman 5 software there was an installation note about being sure that you're using certain video drivers. On the laptop that I have Calman 5 loaded, newer video drivers weren't available. I can't help but wonder if that has anything to do with it as everything else seems to work well. I don't know if the pro calibrator has done about video drivers but his laptop appeared new.

I like Calman 5 but what use is it if it's not reporting blue saturation correctly. That's kind of harsh but it doesn't really look like it's working right. Now one might want to make the argument that it's Chromapure that's not reporting it correctly, but why would there be this many instances of reading blue saturation so low with calman and not with chromapure?????

Do I hear Sotti walking down the hall? smile.gif
Chad B's Avatar Chad B
07:04 AM Liked: 539
post #7 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 2,158
Joined: Oct 2002
I have both software packages and FWIW they both report blue the same with my Jeti spectro.
I've always installed the CalMAN driver pack; don't know if that makes a difference or not.
CalMAN does have those software color matching functions, switchable in the advanced options, which dramatically change how a spectro reports both white balance and the blue primary.
JimP
08:18 AM Liked: 229
post #8 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 15,617
Joined: Sep 2002
Chad B



Does that also apply to a Klein K10 that was doing the same thing? It's not a spectro.

Calman driver pack was installed and on this computer, no other calibration software was installed.

I'll check the advance options. Seems that any setting change would be programmatically enabled when the user selects the meter.


Edit. Chad....I just took another look at Calman 5 and didn't see what you were referring to. Can you go into detail about where these settings are and what they should be set to. Thanks
cbragwel's Avatar cbragwel
12:36 PM Liked: 13
post #9 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 83
Joined: Jul 2006
I just purchased a VT60. I'm a noob, as I've never done anything like this. I read on Spectracal's website where they partnered up with Panasonic and you can "autocalibrate" the VT60. Has anyone actually tried this to see how it works?
chunon's Avatar chunon
01:21 PM Liked: 565
post #10 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbragwel View Post

I just purchased a VT60. I'm a noob, as I've never done anything like this. I read on Spectracal's website where they partnered up with Panasonic and you can "autocalibrate" the VT60. Has anyone actually tried this to see how it works?

I have done it on my Vt50 works pretty well although I have found running the autocal then doing some tweakding works best. Its a pretty straight forward process from my experience. You will need a meter, the correct calman software, signal generator or cal disc at a minimum. There's a video floating around on the spectracal website that demonstrates the procedure.
nw06's Avatar nw06
04:15 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 28
Joined: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I have the same problem with my 65VT50 using Calman 5, i1pro2 and i1display3pro.
...
However, when I use Chromapure, this very low blue saturation is non existent. Blue calibrates out just fine
...
The only possibility that I see is with the Calman 5 software there was an installation note about being sure that you're using certain video drivers.

Interesting. I was assuming it was just my i1Pro out of spec, but the person I bought it off assures me it is fine and is sending me the calibration certificate he received when he had the lamp and filter replaced very recently.
So it is either a Calman problem, or a Tv problem. Given my i1Display3 readings, it does not seem to be the TV itself, so maybe there is a problem with calman and i1Pro blue readings?
I will uninstall Calman and i1Diagnostics, and then reinstall Calman with device driver kit. My laptop video drivers cannot be updated to a later version, but I think that would only affect the operation/appearance of the calman application itself, not the readings from the i1Pro.
Can I trust my GS readings if blue saturation is not being reported correctly with i1Pro?
JimP
04:31 PM Liked: 229
post #12 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 15,617
Joined: Sep 2002
nw06

I cross checked grayscale to Chromapure and it appeared fine.

If you get a chance to take another run at it before I do, disable LLH in the meter menu if you have it enabled and see if that makes any difference in reading blue.
cbragwel's Avatar cbragwel
06:34 PM Liked: 13
post #13 of 16
08-15-2013 | Posts: 83
Joined: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I have done it on my Vt50 works pretty well although I have found running the autocal then doing some tweakding works best. Its a pretty straight forward process from my experience. You will need a meter, the correct calman software, signal generator or cal disc at a minimum. There's a video floating around on the spectracal website that demonstrates the procedure.

Thanks. How long does it take for the autocalibrate?
chunon's Avatar chunon
04:21 AM Liked: 565
post #14 of 16
08-16-2013 | Posts: 5,390
Joined: Dec 2007
If you are not automating the patterns maybe 30 minutes or so , I believe some improvements have been made recently in both speed and accuracy of the autocal haven't messed around with it since spring
CalWldLif's Avatar CalWldLif
01:37 PM Liked: 29
post #15 of 16
10-21-2013 | Posts: 518
Joined: Feb 2011
bump

very interesting and I need to know if there is workaround or method.
I have had low blue in a lot of cals, not as severe as OP.
Calman 4 and 5
I also run a Rev D i1 and display.
and photomonkey sprectro.

I am going to do a ZT60 and don't want to mess up my brothers new TV.
nw06's Avatar nw06
01:36 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 16
10-22-2013 | Posts: 28
Joined: Jul 2011
It seemed to rectify itself, but I cannot 100% determine the reason. I installed the free lightspace DPS application to verify the accuracy of the i1 Pro readings, and that came back with blue saturation looking good. So Calman was definitely the problem.
I then uninstalled calman and device driver kit, and reinstalled. This seemed to fix it. The confusing part is, i had already gone through that same step before installing Lightspace, to no avail...
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