Gamma with normal windows or with APL? - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #181 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 08:40 AM
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There is no answer imo and there lies the problem, I would love for someone to tell me that the absolute best pattern size is 5% apl for instance. But factor in software, the meter and the skills of the calibrator and you are going to have variance. That doesnt even take into account the variance between plasma models etc The final problem is the end result is subjective because the the only method we have to evaluate the calibration is the charts themselves and that does not take into account human perception. What you consider a pleasing gamma may look artificial to me and vice versa.

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post #182 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 11:01 AM
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Yes yes there is an answer: NO touching gamma plasma during calibration
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post #183 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguelronda View Post

Yes yes there is an answer: NO touching gamma plasma during calibration

Good luck with that. wink.gif

If one can say that the EBU has tolerances as suggested on this graph than perhaps "ballpark" is okay.

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post #184 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Good luck with that. wink.gif

If one can say that the EBU has tolerances as suggested on this graph than perhaps "ballpark" is okay.


Good luck with that too!
Of course, it would help if there were an accurate way of measuring a plasma displays gamma so it actually means something to the user......

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post #185 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ndaa75 View Post

Good luck with that too!
Of course, it would help if there were an accurate way of measuring a plasma displays gamma so it actually means something to the user......

smile.gif With PDP and OLED, "ballpark" is going to be the best one can do. I'm happy with the content results I've seen on both technologies.

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post #186 of 194 Old 11-26-2013, 01:43 PM
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I think the best thing a DIY calibrator can do is learn their displays inside and out by trying various reasonable approaches and finding something that looks right most of the time. Be careful with adjusting gamma (beyond presets), since you don't want ABL to mask the display's real gamma response (but don't use tiny patterns that factor out ABL altogether, since that's not indicative of typical content either).

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post #187 of 194 Old 11-27-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I think the best thing a DIY calibrator can do is learn their displays inside and out by trying various reasonable approaches and finding something that looks right most of the time. Be careful with adjusting gamma (beyond presets), since you don't want ABL to mask the display's real gamma response (but don't use tiny patterns that factor out ABL altogether, since that's not indicative of typical content either).

.....and here lies the problem! ABL messes with your gamma so actually the numbers mean little if anything.
Furthermore, running a gamma run with very small tiny windows will actually show your displays native response (it does on mine, not sure for any other display), for example my VT30 will show a virtually flat line 2.2 gamma using 1% windows at the displays 2.2 gamma setting, same for 2.4 setting etc, so I could always use this method to check my target setting, but I don't even bother trying to 'correct' it if calibrating with larger windows, 10% eg, given the ABL effects.

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post #188 of 194 Old 11-27-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndaa75 View Post

.....and here lies the problem! ABL messes with your gamma so actually the numbers mean little if anything.
Furthermore, running a gamma run with very small tiny windows will actually show your displays native response (it does on mine, not sure for any other display), for example my VT30 will show a virtually flat line 2.2 gamma using 1% windows at the displays 2.2 gamma setting, same for 2.4 setting etc, so I could always use this method to check my target setting, but I don't even bother trying to 'correct' it if calibrating with larger windows, 10% eg, given the ABL effects.

fixed APL patterns show on-screen gamma, though which fixed APL value that is will still affect the results

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post #189 of 194 Old 12-26-2013, 05:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

(but don't use tiny patterns that factor out ABL altogether, since that's not indicative of typical content either).

or you can just disable/minimize ABL so it doesnt affect gamma that much wink.gif
i have done it on my Kuro.
for the power restricted Panasonics after 2009 i dont know if its possible

but i still calibrate with the windows patterns
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post #190 of 194 Old 12-26-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

or you can just disable/minimize ABL so it doesnt affect gamma that much wink.gif
i have done it on my Kuro.
for the power restricted Panasonics after 2009 i dont know if its possible

but i still calibrate with the windows patterns

I use Ted's 11% standard windows with great results.
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post #191 of 194 Old 12-26-2013, 11:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I use Ted's 11% standard windows with great results.

ok great
just one question
whats the highest brightness that you can get for the whites on a ansi checkerboard with the S60 ?

as for the color luminance i think the APL patterns is more correct for real world content than the window patterns.
it differ +3 with the color control from 100% color windows to the large APL patterns.
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post #192 of 194 Old 12-26-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

ok great
just one question
whats the highest brightness that you can get for the whites on a ansi checkerboard with the S60 ?

as for the color luminance i think the APL patterns is more correct for real world content than the window patterns.
it differ +3 with the color control from 100% color windows to the large APL patterns.

with 11% standard windows, the S60 maxes out at 50 fL (almost exactly 50)

this is with contrast 100 and panel brightness mid (high is no brighter on my S60, only much noisier)

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post #193 of 194 Old 12-26-2013, 12:55 PM
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not sure about ANSI checkerboard but I think in the low to mid 30s (fL)

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post #194 of 194 Old 05-16-2016, 07:06 AM
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This is how I would do it.

I would estimate the APL distribution of the content to be watched.

I would take multiple APL-level measurements for each test pattern.

The error to be minimized would be the weighted mean of the individual measurements, where the weights are derived from the distribution mentioned above.
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