Quick urgent question about profiling - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,

I need to ship my I1 pro 2 away for repairs. But, I still have a TV to calibrate so I want to profile the i1 display 3 before I ship my I1 pro 2.

My question is: do I need to set contrast and brightness and the tv while balance mode (warm, cool, ..) before I profile? Perhaps there are still other parameters to consider.

But ultimately, the question boils down to whether or not those, or other settings, change the spectracal signature of a television? If they do, I have more work cut out for me before profiling the meter.

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display. -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

Hi everyone,

I need to ship my I1 pro 2 away for repairs. But, I still have a TV to calibrate so I want to profile the i1 display 3 before I ship my I1 pro 2.

My question is: do I need to set contrast and brightness and the tv while balance mode (warm, cool, ..) before I profile? Perhaps there are still other parameters to consider.

But ultimately, the question boils down to whether or not those, or other settings, change the spectracal signature of a television? If they do, I have more work cut out for me before profiling the meter.

this sounds a bit like a question I asked about profiling and backlight strobing/scanning (I had also asked about other picture settings, basic and advanced/pic modes... but the replies were focused on the backlight strobing/scanning)

while I did not get a clear answer regarding picture settings/modes affecting profling, odds are the profile should remain valid even after changing stuff like brightness/contrast and color temp presets... you could test this out by starting with a profile with default settings in the picture mode you are trying to calibrate, then calibrating it with the profiled colorimeter, and then verifying that the profile is still accurate by doing spot checks with the spectro
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post #3 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 09:15 AM
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Greetings

If you have to calibrate the TV before you profile, it kind of defeats the purpose of profiling in the first place.

All the profiling program cares about is how different the two meters will read, when presented with the same thing to measure.

There are always plenty of potential for the profile not working ...

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post #4 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

Hi everyone,

I need to ship my I1 pro 2 away for repairs..

What kind of repairs?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #5 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

If you have to calibrate the TV before you profile, it kind of defeats the purpose of profiling in the first place.

All the profiling program cares about is how different the two meters will read, when presented with the same thing to measure.

There are always plenty of potential for the profile not working ...

Regards

are there any picture settings/options on a display that when changed after the profiling could make the profile inaccurate?

(assuming it was accurate to begin with)
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 02:57 PM
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You would have to be talking about a control that a spectro views differently than a colorimeter. A control that would show static color boxes different. If there is one, I have not seen it.

This is just chasing the hypothetical. Sort of like a meteor hitting the house when you are doing the calibration. No evidence of either happening.

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post #7 of 14 Old 08-15-2013, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I just made a profile in white balance preset"warm 2" on a Samsung LED tv (don't have my notes on me at the moment, so I cannot give the type numer of the set now).

I've used a tripod and angled it a bit to the right as, unfortunately, I could not aim it right at the middle of the tv screen. All x, y numbers (spectro vs colorimeter) match to within 0.002. So the profile is valid.
One small thing I forgot is to make sure both spectro and colorimeter read the same Y before creating the profile. Since x, y matches so well, I suppose that was not all that critical:-).

Tomorrow, I will measure the while balance preset "warm" and "normal" and see whether spectro and colorimeter still agree. I will then also upload an Excel sheet with all measurements.
Reading this thread, I expect that the profile will remain valid for all presets:-)


@PlasmaPZ80U. The set in your signature just jolted my memory. It appears you have the same set as I'm calibrating. I'm not sure about the first two letters but the rest of the type number looks identical. Does your set have a CMS? Could not find it on that set...
@Jim an accessoire that is paired specifically with an i1 pro II (like the base plate for instance) is missing. So it is getting replaced entirely. Not really a repair in the true sense of the word.

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display. -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-16-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

You would have to be talking about a control that a spectro views differently than a colorimeter. A control that would show static color boxes different. If there is one, I have not seen it.

This is just chasing the hypothetical. Sort of like a meteor hitting the house when you are doing the calibration. No evidence of either happening.

Regards

thanks, that's good to know
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-16-2013, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

@PlasmaPZ80U. The set in your signature just jolted my memory. It appears you have the same set as I'm calibrating. I'm not sure about the first two letters but the rest of the type number looks identical. Does your set have a CMS? Could not find it on that set...

mine has no CMS or 10-pt controls but as you can see in the CM5 screen caps it doesn't really need them
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post #10 of 14 Old 08-16-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

If you have to calibrate the TV before you profile, it kind of defeats the purpose of profiling in the first place.

All the profiling program cares about is how different the two meters will read, when presented with the same thing to measure.

There are always plenty of potential for the profile not working ...

Regards

"plenty of potential for the profile not working ..."
Yes I agree and that is something not talked about much. I have never seen off-sets the same when profiling the same two meters (color/spectro) using CM5, when using a Plasma display to profile off of.

Now take it one step further, using two calibration programs. One program to setup temp and light output the other to profile the display. eek.gif

ss
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-16-2013, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

this sounds a bit like a question I asked about profiling and backlight strobing/scanning (I had also asked about other picture settings, basic and advanced/pic modes... but the replies were focused on the backlight strobing/scanning)

while I did not get a clear answer regarding picture settings/modes affecting profling, odds are the profile should remain valid even after changing stuff like brightness/contrast and color temp presets... you could test this out by starting with a profile with default settings in the picture mode you are trying to calibrate, then calibrating it with the profiled colorimeter, and then verifying that the profile is still accurate by doing spot checks with the spectro

Actually, I think we *did* answer your question fairly early ... it just that the thread ran a wee bit wild after that point. wink.gif

PS: In your case (always on vs. scanned/strobed backlight,) there were two things that *could* have affected the results. 1) Different measured luminance and 2) Different field of vision of the meters. IIRC, You experimented and found that both of your meters were actually tracking in parallel with both backlight settings without re-profiling the colorimeter ... that should be all that matters. OTOH, wouldn't hurt to re-profile either.
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-17-2013, 03:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the Excel sheet for the Samsung UE46EH6030

First tab: comparison between spectro and unprofiled colorimeter
Second tab: comparison between spectro and profiled colorimeter
Third tab: comparison between the 2 i1 pro 2 measurements (to check i1 pro 2 repeatibility)

All the above is done for picture mode warm 2

Too bad it is a very bright day here (for calibrating) so I hope my checking of the other picture modes is not thrown off by pesky day light


Test with meter profiling.xlsx 112k .xlsx file
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Test with meter profiling.xlsx (111.8 KB, 8 views)

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display. -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-17-2013, 04:46 AM
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Jeroen,

I don't understand what you're trying to do with the third tab.

It appears that you took the corrections made to have the i1display3 match the i1pro2 and then added them back to the i1pro2.

Also, if you are sending your i1pro2 in because you don't have the matching baseplate, your starting off with errors in the i1pro2 measurement. Profiling made be worst than just using the display 3 natively.

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post #14 of 14 Old 08-18-2013, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Jim,


I'll explain what the third tab is. When I first compared the colori with the spectro on tab 1, you can see I saved the spectro readings. On tab 2, where I verify the profile created for the colorimeter, I took another series of spectro readings.
I compare those 2 series of spectro readings on tab 3. Just to verify that the i1 pro II has no repeatibility issues. The i1 pro 2 is accurate to within 0.002 as you can see (green y being the worst offender with 0.0018 deviation). So when verifying a profile for a colorimeter, it is possible to see it deviate from the spectro with as much as 0.002. Of course the colorimeter has its own tolerances, so in a kind of worst case scenario, it could add another 0.002 making that a profiled colorimeter can still have a fault of 0.004.

Now, yesterday, I intended to verify whether a profile remains accurate when changing WB picture modes. Unfortunately, when reverifying the profile (so essentially what I did on tab 2 as I started reverifying the same picture mode where I left off the day before) it deviated with as much as 0.005 from the spectro.
This can have 3 reasons as far as I can tell:

1) When I first created the profile, I had to angle the meters a bit to the right to make them read the centre of the screen. When reverifying, I moved the sofa so that the meters could be placed perpendicular to the centre of the screen.
2) Although the spectro read the same values (within 0.002 accuracy) the colorimeter reading were of by as much as 0.005. When I created the profile, it was night, but the day after it was a bright sunny day. So perhaps the colorimeter is much more susceptible to this change in brightness.
Perhaps someone can dispute of agree with this claim?
3) Both meters coincidentally had a worst case repeatibility issue


No, the base plate is the correct one. There is another accessoire that is paired with a specific i1 pro II. I can't recall its name in English at the moment (I'll dig through my mails when I send it in)

My gear: Panasonic TH-42PF11EK pro plasma display. -- Iscan Duo video processor -- i1 display 3 colorimeter -- i1 pro 2 spectrometer
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