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post #1 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I own a Sony KDL-40V5100, I have also installed the firmware update. It works just as good as when I first bought it. In the past I have calibrated it using the Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune up DVD by Ovation Software, that I bought at Best Buy. I got lucky in that it was the last one they had in store. For basic calibration, it made my TV look great.

Now to the point, a few weeks ago I bought Terminator 2 on blu-ray, and I checked out the THX optimizer. This was the first time I had a blu-ray with the calibration tests in HD. The first test that threw me off was for brightness. Apparently I had had my TV too bright the whole time. So I set it to where they suggested it. Not bad, blacks were much more so.

Yesterday, I got a copy of Disney WOW. Their suggested brightness puts my TV 10 plus factory brightness, and contrast is maxed out now. While I like the WOW suggestions, I am concerned if I will shorten the life of my TV if I keep the WOW suggested brightness.



Advice?
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post #2 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:12 AM
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I would suggest you download the free AVS 709 disk and burn to DVD or BR depending on what you have at hand. Either way it only plays in a BR player once burned. The brightness and Contrast patterns are much easier to see an use than the WOW. I have the wow and never use it as it really kind of sucks in my opinion after using it once or twice..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration/0_100

There is only one correct brightness setting but that can be effected by room lighting Different people will tell you different things, but logic dictates you set brightness from your seat since that is where you sit to watch TV and with the lighting you use when you watch the majority of time If you set it in low light at night, that setting may be to dark for a bright sunny viewing environment. Same for back lighting, if the display is LCD..
There are many threads about setting contrast and brightness and people will argue till the end of time about 1 or 2 clicks.. but face it, the world will not end of brighness is a click 2 tow high.. you have already watched your display for years with it wrong! smile.gif Try the AVS disk, it is cut and dry, 16 should not flash.. done.. there is a pdf instruction manual that tell you how to use each pattern.
Good luck and have fun!


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post #3 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I wouldn't say it was totally wrong. It's been better than if I had just kept the factory settings. I have used the blue filter to adjust color and tint. I don't have the knowledge to adjust the white balance. The TV has never looked ugly to me. A pro calibrator would probably look at my TV with disgust. The problem with the Sound and Vision DVD, and this is just a guess, the brightness test had a CRT screen in mind. So when I used that on my LCD, the brightness was set for a CRT screen. When I got the T2 blu-ray, I assume that the THX brightness had LCD or Plasma in mind, so I dropped it down to their suggestion. The WOW disk had their brightness test on an already super-black screen, and their "ideal" brightness was way above the Sound and Vision DVD, and the THX optimizer.
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnightR View Post

I wouldn't say it was totally wrong. It's been better than if I had just kept the factory settings. I have used the blue filter to adjust color and tint. I don't have the knowledge to adjust the white balance. The TV has never looked ugly to me. A pro calibrator would probably look at my TV with disgust. The problem with the Sound and Vision DVD, and this is just a guess, the brightness test had a CRT screen in mind. So when I used that on my LCD, the brightness was set for a CRT screen. When I got the T2 blu-ray, I assume that the THX brightness had LCD or Plasma in mind, so I dropped it down to their suggestion. The WOW disk had their brightness test on an already super-black screen, and their "ideal" brightness was way above the Sound and Vision DVD, and the THX optimizer.

I would go with the THX and verify with AVS
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnightR View Post

I wouldn't say it was totally wrong. It's been better than if I had just kept the factory settings. I have used the blue filter to adjust color and tint. I don't have the knowledge to adjust the white balance. The TV has never looked ugly to me. A pro calibrator would probably look at my TV with disgust. The problem with the Sound and Vision DVD, and this is just a guess, the brightness test had a CRT screen in mind. So when I used that on my LCD, the brightness was set for a CRT screen. When I got the T2 blu-ray, I assume that the THX brightness had LCD or Plasma in mind, so I dropped it down to their suggestion. The WOW disk had their brightness test on an already super-black screen, and their "ideal" brightness was way above the Sound and Vision DVD, and the THX optimizer.

I would go with the THX and verify with AVS

Don't use the THX Optimizer from T2 Blu-Ray... It has incorrect levels, It's an upscaled version of on old THX DVD version, not optimized for set the correct Brighness for Blu-Ray Playback.
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:58 AM
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Greetings

THX optimizers are only applicable to the movie the disc comes on. Nothing else. Be careful.

I recall thinking back that there might have been an issue with that terminator disc. The AVS disc gets precedence.

regards
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post #7 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm attempting to download the AVS disc now. If the Disney WOW isn't worth it, I am glad that it was bought through a gift certificate from my wedding.
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:19 AM
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I'm attempting to download the AVS disc now. If the Disney WOW isn't worth it, I am glad that it was bought through a gift certificate from my wedding.

It is interesting.. I have about 4 or 5 different calibration disk and use AVS over all the others. Sometimes I will double check a sharpness pattern from another disk but I find the ease of the flashing patterns on AVS just more cut and dry. I don't get into audio so WOW may have some value there to those interested in that.
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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For audio, I just used the auto calibration that came with my Sony receiver when I got it a few months back. There is still so much I have to learn about all of this stuff. The good thing is, I love it, so the learning process hasn't been stressful at all.
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post #10 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The disk has downloaded, watching the tutorial now. I will let you all know how it goes.
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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What should the reference white level look like? Should it blend in, or just be barely visible?
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Nevermind, I have the contrast maxed out, and it can't reach reference level white. I guess my TV is too old, and I had it set wrong for too long.
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:04 PM
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Assuming you are talking about adjusting contrast now. Turn down contrast till you can see up to 252 flashing. If you can never see this than whiter than white is being clipped someplace and we need to address that but let try turning down contrast till you can see the above reference start flashing.

This may be helpful
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/01/setting-contrast-not-what-you-might-think/
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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If I am looking at everything correctly, brightness is where it should be, bar 17 is barely visible. Color and tint are as spot on as I can see with my eyes. Contrast won't reach 234. I adjusted the settings on the blu-ray player, its also a Sony. I turned off the deep color output. Color space conversion on the blu-ray player is set to Auto, the other settings are YCbCr (4:2:2), YCbCr (4:4:4) and RGB. Should I set the color space conversion to one of these settings?
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post #15 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I believe I've got everything about as good as I can possibly get it without bringing in a Pro. Not that I am adverse to the idea, I just can't afford it. Also, I hope to get the training to do this for a living myself someday.

To everyone who responded, I want to say thank you very much for your help, and information given.
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

It is interesting.. I have about 4 or 5 different calibration disk and use AVS over all the others. Sometimes I will double check a sharpness pattern from another disk but I find the ease of the flashing patterns on AVS just more cut and dry. I don't get into audio so WOW may have some value there to those interested in that.

I seem to get a one click difference in brightness between the AVS black clipping pattern and S&M 2nd Edition (using the digital 17 checkboards in the latter, PLUGE 0%). I believe AVS ends up one click lower/darker.
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 02:13 PM
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Not only should you be able to see 17, you should NOT be able to see 16 at all. Most TVs can't be set accurately enough for that... 17 often ends up a little darker than it should be, but that's not the end of the world.

NO disc... ZERO of them.... can tell you the right setting for the Contrast control. All they can tell you is the highest setting you can use without losing steps that are above 235 digital which is 100% white. Video does have content in the range of 235-254. There's no detail there, but there the data is just for the sort of reflections you get off of chrome or water or a crystal chandelier. Some TVs NEVER show you any detail above 235/100% no matter what you do. Some will.

The highest Contrast setting is not the RIGHT contrast setting and it's not even the "Reference" contrast setting. Actually, there is NO SUCH THING as a "Reference" setting for Contrast. In general, we set Contrast to produce 30-40 fL (foot-Lamberts) for 100% white when viewing in a dark room. The whole point of that is so that you don't experience eyestrain in a dark room caused by the TV being too bright against a black background... your eyes can't decide whether the iris should be closed for the bright picture or open for the dark background, so you end up never being able to get comfortable and your irises are constantly opening and closing. The Test/Setup Discs only help you determine the HIGHEST Contrast setting, not the RIGHT contrast setting. You know you have 30-40 fL if you have measured it with a meter (and software to interface with the meter and tell you what the meter reading is). If you have no meter, all you can do is go by the eyestrain test. If you are squinting in a dark room, the TV is too bright. If you are NOT squinting, you are probably getting close to the right setting. If you can watch a 2-3 hour movie and not feel like you have eyestrain at the end, you should be within that 30-40 fL range for a dark room.

If the room is not dark, you probably want more light from the TV. But there's no recommendation for how MUCH more light you might want. In my experience, with electric lights on in the room at night, you probably want 50-55 fL. If there's sunlight coming in during the day, you might want 60-65 fL or more depending on how bright the sunlight is.

Again, the test/setup discs will NEVER help you achieve those levels for 100% white because you just don't know what you are seeing without having a meter to measure it. Plasma TVs might never get much brighter than 50-55 fL. LCD TVs can often hit 65-150 fL depending on model. Unfortunately, all the test/setup discs (there are NOT really calibration discs since you really need a meter to calibrate) try to make you believe they are helping you find the best Contrast setting, but they LIE. Back in the days of CRT, most of the time you did want to use the highest possible Contrast setting because picture tubes were often barely bright enough to be satisfying (with a few exceptions here and there). Most digital video displays can get brighter than CRTs ever could. So the old "story" all these discs are telling is really no longer true. There may be some value in learning whether your TV shows steps above 235/100% (the maximum you should ever see is 254/109%), but that is far different from learning the right Contrast setting. If you decide you want 35 fL for 100% white, the only way you are ever going to know you have 35 fL is if you have a meter (and software) to measure it (which means using the right sort of test pattern which is available on some test/setup discs, but not too many of them.

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post #18 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 02:19 PM
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could a high light output on a plasma (like 50 fL+) be less fatiguing to watch in a dim/dark room than the same light output on a LCD? given that the LCD stays that bright with a 100% white full field whereas plasma gets much, much dimmer under those conditions (high APL)
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

....The highest Contrast setting is not the RIGHT contrast setting and it's not even the "Reference" contrast setting. Actually, there is NO SUCH THING as a "Reference" setting for Contrast. In general, we set Contrast to produce 30-40 fL (foot-Lamberts) for 100% white when viewing in a dark room. The whole point of that is so that you don't experience eyestrain in a dark room caused by the TV being too bright against a black background... your eyes can't decide whether the iris should be closed for the bright picture or open for the dark background, so you end up never being able to get comfortable and your irises are constantly opening and closing. The Test/Setup Discs only help you determine the HIGHEST Contrast setting, not the RIGHT contrast setting. You know you have 30-40 fL if you have measured it with a meter (and software to interface with the meter and tell you what the meter reading is). If you have no meter, all you can do is go by the eyestrain test. If you are squinting in a dark room, the TV is too bright. If you are NOT squinting, you are probably getting close to the right setting. If you can watch a 2-3 hour movie and not feel like you have eyestrain at the end, you should be within that 30-40 fL range for a dark room.....
The same video industry standards bodies recommending 30-40 fL as reference for a darkened room also recommend D65 supplemental ambient illumination to prevent viewing fatigue/eye strain at that level of screen brightness in a 100% window pattern. In other words, their human factors studies led them to expect many viewers to experience viewing fatigue around 35 fL. A darkened room is required to prevent interference from screen reflections, haze, and glare. Correct video display system design, setup, and calibration must not ignore the critical components called the viewing environment and the viewer. If a viewer wants to approach a reference viewing experience from the display system, attention to detail is required.

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post #20 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 06:03 PM
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could a high light output on a plasma (like 50 fL+) be less fatiguing to watch in a dim/dark room .....
Not recommended without bias lighting.
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post #21 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I do have bias lighting, a lamp behind the TV with a light bulb that puts out 6,500K. The CRI may be one or two less than what may be "optimal", but it really does help prevent eye fatigue, and helps with colors. I just finished watching Friends with Benefits on blu-ray. It looked great, but I know that someday I need to get the greyscale set by a Pro, some scenes looks a little off. But not awful.
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-01-2013, 03:26 PM
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Not recommended without bias lighting.

yeah I meant with bias lighting and 50 fL was just a number I threw out... the point was whether ABL in plasmas makes watching high APL content less eye fatiguing in a darkened room vs. a LCD outputting the same level of light output using a standard windowbox pattern (because high APL scenes get a lot dimmer on plasmas whereas LCD lose no brightness under the same conditions... and high APL content is more fatiguing to watch in general than moderate or low APL content)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Not recommended without bias lighting.

yeah I meant with bias lighting and 50 fL was just a number I threw out... the point was whether ABL in plasmas makes watching high APL content less eye fatiguing in a darkened room vs. a LCD outputting the same level of light output using a standard windowbox pattern (because high APL scenes get a lot dimmer on plasmas whereas LCD lose no brightness under the same conditions... and high APL content is more fatiguing to watch in general than moderate or low APL content)
As I understand the issues at play here, there might be a slight increase in potential fatigue with sustained high average brightness level. Much would depend upon program content. In most programs the ABL is constantly changing. Also, some types of programming contain less dramatic swings between predominantly dark and bright scenes, such as live sporting events and news commentary.
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post #24 of 26 Old 09-06-2013, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

THX optimizers are only applicable to the movie the disc comes on. Nothing else. Be careful.

I recall thinking back that there might have been an issue with that terminator disc. The AVS disc gets precedence.

regards
Hmm. Makes me think if I should be recalibrating using T2's THX Optimiser every time I see the movie, or just ignore and trust the results you get from using Spears & Munsil or the AVS Disc.

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post #25 of 26 Old 09-06-2013, 04:41 PM
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Greetings

Trust the S&M disc and AVS over the optimizer


regards
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post #26 of 26 Old 09-06-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Greetings

Trust the S&M disc and AVS over the optimizer


regards

I have to agree with this. After using the AVS disc, and Disney WOW, the THX optimizer on Terminator 2 is completely wrong. My TV looks about as good as I'll ever be able to get it, aside from hiring a pro to come calibrate it.
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