Calman 5 + basiccolor Discus = performance problem? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 09-08-2013, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,
I'm Calman 5 Ultimate (build 1263) user. Recently I've bought basiccolor DISCUS because I wanted a colorimeter that is faster than my old i1 Display 3. Derek J. Smith from Spectracal claims that it is. However I've experienced some problems. I'd like other discus users to confirm if they experience similar.

I posted the following on Spectracal's forum previously:

My Basiccolor DISCUS has just arrived and i am disappointed with it's performance. The meter itself is said to be much faster than i1 display pro (which is also in my equipment). However, in the tests i did it was completely opposite. I could use i1 display pro with 0.5 sec exposure mode (and with 2 sec LLH) on IPS-LCD to get stable readings and the 21 point run was completed about 30% faster than when using DISCUS with "standard integration time". It took about as much as one second for DISCUS to measure each gray level over 30% BUT for example 70% (only this particular) level was integrated way faster (in 0.2 - 0.3 second). This seems like a Calman bug. What do you think?

Now, I would like to add that there are no sync options so the redings on plasma are very instable. The solution is to use "High Average" integration time which makes the readings even slower. (indicates that measurements are not repeatable but are all somewhere around the target and averaging them gives a good result.) In that case the discus is WAY slower than i1 d3. Oh God...


So now I come with some measurements. My goal was to achieve +/- 0.001 repeatability in xy and "reasonable" accuracy when it comes to luminance. I used LightSpace CMS from Ligh Illusion to compare the readings time. It's got very nice "Measure and Log" function.

The results?

On plasma TV the pattern could be measured exactly 2 times faster using LS. It was enough to set integration time 2 to achieve the accuracy (LS has 0-3 slider). The white patch had been measured in 1700ms. With Calman I had to use "Long" integration mode to achieve the same accuracy. The white reading was made in 3350ms (measured with a stopwatch). It is twice longer.
Of course i could use "Standard Integration" mode to have the reading in 1 sec, but then the measurements varied as much as +/- 0.004 in xy. That's unacceptable.

On LCD TV Lightspace could measure extremely accurate (+/- 0.0001 xy) within 550ms. Calman exhibited the same level of accuracy but it took about 1000ms.

I attach the logged readings from LS. The integration time is as stated in the file name. Low luminance measurements averaging was disabled.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems?

-MK LCD Integration 0.csv 3k .csv file LCD, Integration 1.csv 0k .csv file PDP Integration 0.csv 3k .csv file PDP Integration 1.csv 2k .csv file PDP Integration 2.csv 2k .csv file
Attached Files
File Type: csv LCD Integration 0.csv (2.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: csv LCD, Integration 1.csv (384 Bytes, 7 views)
File Type: csv PDP Integration 0.csv (2.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: csv PDP Integration 1.csv (1.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: csv PDP Integration 2.csv (2.3 KB, 9 views)
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post #2 of 26 Old 09-08-2013, 03:38 PM
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To Compare the CalMAN Measuring Times/Repeatability try this:

1) Open CalMAN and click the CalMAN Logo -> Click Logging... and enable all options there.

2) Select a pattern and click to meter read @ continuous mode to take some measurements...

3) Close CalMAN and do C:\ProgramData\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 Business\Logs (Hidden Folder)

4) Open the last log file and you will see data's like these:

00097 = 00:27:07.949 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000098 = 00:27:07.949 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000099 = 00:27:07.950 Startup - PatternGenIO - Ran 0.00
000100 = 00:27:08.389 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000101 = 00:27:08.389 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000102 = 00:27:08.389 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ 0
000103 = 00:27:08.389 Simulated Meter - Read x:3127 y:3290 Y:815303
000104 = 00:27:08.389 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ XYZ X:77.490439 Y:81.530331 Z:88.779735
000105 = 00:27:08.390 AutoCal - Meter Read
000106 = 00:27:08.500 Startup - MeterIO - Ran 0.10
000107 = 00:27:08.501 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000108 = 00:27:08.501 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000109 = 00:27:08.502 Startup - PatternGenIO - Ran 0.00
000110 = 00:27:08.969 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000111 = 00:27:08.969 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000112 = 00:27:08.969 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ 0
000113 = 00:27:08.969 Simulated Meter - Read x:3127 y:3290 Y:831609
000114 = 00:27:08.969 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ XYZ X:79.040248 Y:83.160937 Z:90.555329
000115 = 00:27:08.970 AutoCal - Meter Read
000116 = 00:27:09.090 Startup - MeterIO - Ran 0.12
000117 = 00:27:09.099 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000118 = 00:27:09.099 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000119 = 00:27:09.102 Startup - PatternGenIO - Ran 0.01
000120 = 00:27:09.451 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000121 = 00:27:09.451 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,118
000122 = 00:27:09.451 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ 0
000123 = 00:27:09.451 Simulated Meter - Read x:3147 y:3310 Y:831609
000124 = 00:27:09.451 Simulated Meter - ReadXYZ XYZ X:79.065145 Y:83.160937 Z:89.003276
000125 = 00:27:09.452 AutoCal - Meter Read
000126 = 00:27:09.580 Startup - MeterIO - Ran 0.12
000127 = 00:27:09.585 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 118
000128 = 00:27:09.592 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,1

5) Extract only the Bold Data Numbers and place them to a new excel file, then calculate the time differencies to find the meter times per read and repeatibility performace...

6) Report us the exact time difference of Discus using LightSpace vs. CalMAN after that wink.gif

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post #3 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Here we go. With Calman it takes forever unless short integration mode is set, but then the repeatability is poor. With Lightspace measurement times are much faster. Spectracal please fix this. I'm not a weekend calibrator. It's my job and the time is money.

Calman:
White 100% ~ 2550 ms
White 60% ~ 5750 ms
White 10% ~ 10530 ms
Red 100% ~ 5950 ms
Green 100% ~ 3540 ms
Blue 100% ~ 6015 ms

LightSpace:
White 100% ~ 1050 ms
White 60% ~ 2250 ms
White 10% ~ 4450 ms
Red 100% ~ 2250 ms
Green 100% ~ 1800 ms
Blue 100% ~ 2250 ms

Full Output (please ignore LS triplets, all patterns were from AccuPel with the sequence stated above)

Calman
Code:
::::::::LONG INTEGRATION TIME::::::
White 100% measurement time ~ 2550 ms
000233 = 20:49:23.584 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.85787 Y:120.01926 Z:134.78297
000238 = 20:49:26.137 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.75132 Y:119.69249 Z:135.87798
000243 = 20:49:28.627 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.89825 Y:119.91859 Z:135.85944
000248 = 20:49:31.105 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.76137 Y:119.8654 Z:135.11072
000253 = 20:49:33.614 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.61427 Y:119.56796 Z:135.33
000258 = 20:49:36.133 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.57091 Y:119.5206 Z:135.30205
000263 = 20:49:38.656 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.94374 Y:119.98792 Z:135.73308
000268 = 20:49:41.195 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.77071 Y:119.70781 Z:135.82446

White 60%  measurement time ~ 5750 ms
000280 = 20:49:58.240 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.246548 Y:36.969738 Z:42.001007
000285 = 20:50:04.002 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.31551 Y:37.033314 Z:42.084869
000290 = 20:50:09.734 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.32037 Y:37.035118 Z:42.100639
000295 = 20:50:15.472 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.368862 Y:37.091385 Z:42.139709

White 10% measurement time ~ 10530 ms
000304 = 20:50:31.015 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75119758 Y:0.80957723 Z:0.85905123
000309 = 20:50:41.550 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75216007 Y:0.81156826 Z:0.85889345
000314 = 20:50:52.067 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75242823 Y:0.81154305 Z:0.86017203

Red 100% measurement time ~ 5950 ms
000326 = 20:51:09.348 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.232849 Y:23.014387 Z:2.3186553
000331 = 20:51:15.302 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.290524 Y:23.049597 Z:2.3184671
000336 = 20:51:21.125 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.287281 Y:23.0495 Z:2.3196704
000341 = 20:51:26.916 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.276169 Y:23.043343 Z:2.3172345

Green 100% measurement time ~ 3540 ms
000364 = 20:51:42.665 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.108635 Y:84.114716 Z:16.355021
000369 = 20:51:46.147 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.085384 Y:84.070389 Z:16.349295
000374 = 20:51:49.479 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.088223 Y:84.035675 Z:16.341185
000379 = 20:51:52.792 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.106133 Y:84.07708 Z:16.379251

Blue 100% measurement time ~ 6015 ms
000391 = 20:52:07.207 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.84273 Y:7.6135216 Z:106.92136
000396 = 20:52:13.223 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.863487 Y:7.6219168 Z:107.01642
000401 = 20:52:19.086 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.874128 Y:7.6263685 Z:107.07104
000406 = 20:52:24.963 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.891575 Y:7.6324143 Z:107.16563

::::::::SHORT INTEGRATION TIME::::::
White 100%
000421 = 20:52:39.737 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:115.23956 Y:120.09711 Z:136.23625
000426 = 20:52:41.128 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:115.17436 Y:120.12459 Z:136.01134
000431 = 20:52:42.429 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.7775 Y:119.65148 Z:135.25111
000436 = 20:52:43.811 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:115.30215 Y:120.51464 Z:135.0619
000441 = 20:52:45.117 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:115.49371 Y:120.43408 Z:136.7451
000446 = 20:52:46.458 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:116.25565 Y:121.24567 Z:137.80371
000451 = 20:52:47.769 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:114.81926 Y:119.89108 Z:134.69339
000456 = 20:52:49.090 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:115.85686 Y:121.1374 Z:135.73608

White 60%
000465 = 20:52:56.326 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.442863 Y:37.238461 Z:41.828293
000470 = 20:52:57.328 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.424625 Y:37.189945 Z:41.989197
000475 = 20:52:58.311 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.432243 Y:37.143929 Z:42.266808
000480 = 20:52:59.309 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.307781 Y:37.051102 Z:41.872383
000485 = 20:53:00.306 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.680126 Y:37.450714 Z:42.318287
000490 = 20:53:01.295 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.668476 Y:37.429077 Z:42.28513

White 10%
000499 = 20:53:09.911 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.7561816 Y:0.81543607 Z:0.86596066
000504 = 20:53:14.336 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75486374 Y:0.81456232 Z:0.85989743
000509 = 20:53:18.778 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75629711 Y:0.81643671 Z:0.86286414
000514 = 20:53:23.208 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75436288 Y:0.81420648 Z:0.86264729

Red 100%
000526 = 20:53:46.062 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.229137 Y:23.009722 Z:2.3049066
000531 = 20:53:47.194 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.450306 Y:23.128204 Z:2.3305738
000536 = 20:53:48.491 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.090786 Y:22.936195 Z:2.3099551
000541 = 20:53:49.633 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.4412 Y:23.09083 Z:2.3168895
000546 = 20:53:50.940 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.378338 Y:23.093925 Z:2.3182037
000551 = 20:53:52.049 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:44.213524 Y:22.977505 Z:2.2946441

Green 100%
000563 = 20:54:01.323 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:42.632435 Y:83.567993 Z:15.895665
000568 = 20:54:02.245 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:42.440865 Y:82.808945 Z:16.081758
000573 = 20:54:03.188 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:42.829636 Y:83.456505 Z:16.269613
000578 = 20:54:04.400 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.503212 Y:85.005562 Z:16.044109
000583 = 20:54:05.372 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.342487 Y:84.565086 Z:16.468294
000588 = 20:54:06.310 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:43.213032 Y:84.443359 Z:16.291739

Blue 100%
000600 = 20:54:16.300 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.685429 Y:7.5701108 Z:106.08254
000605 = 20:54:17.442 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:21.062752 Y:7.6737685 Z:108.13017
000610 = 20:54:18.585 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:21.053471 Y:7.6752553 Z:108.05176
000615 = 20:54:19.797 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:20.824156 Y:7.6151428 Z:106.81164
000620 = 20:54:20.974 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:21.162106 Y:7.7282863 Z:108.57423
000625 = 20:54:22.257 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:21.098881 Y:7.7038445 Z:108.24329

LS:
Code:
Date, Red, Green, Blue, Y, x, y, Time
2013-09-09 20:29:46, 255, 255, 255, 110.4103, 0.3082, 0.3353, 1029ms
2013-09-09 20:29:48, 255, 255, 255, 110.3174, 0.3081, 0.3353, 1029ms
2013-09-09 20:29:49, 255, 255, 255, 110.2327, 0.3083, 0.3357, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:29:51, 255, 255, 255, 110.1596, 0.3083, 0.3356, 1029ms
2013-09-09 20:29:52, 255, 255, 255, 110.3427, 0.3081, 0.3353, 1045ms
2013-09-09 20:29:54, 255, 255, 255, 110.1626, 0.3081, 0.3352, 1014ms
2013-09-09 20:29:55, 255, 255, 255, 110.1209, 0.3086, 0.3360, 1014ms
2013-09-09 20:29:57, 255, 255, 255, 110.2698, 0.3081, 0.3353, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:29:58, 255, 255, 255, 109.8177, 0.3079, 0.3347, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:30:00, 255, 255, 255, 109.9259, 0.3088, 0.3364, 1029ms
2013-09-09 20:30:01, 255, 255, 255, 109.7995, 0.3084, 0.3356, 1045ms
2013-09-09 20:30:03, 255, 255, 255, 109.9948, 0.3082, 0.3354, 1045ms
2013-09-09 20:30:04, 255, 255, 255, 110.1182, 0.3081, 0.3352, 1029ms
2013-09-09 20:30:06, 255, 255, 255, 109.6005, 0.3081, 0.3349, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:30:07, 255, 255, 255, 109.8351, 0.3087, 0.3361, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:30:09, 255, 255, 255, 109.6136, 0.3080, 0.3349, 1030ms
2013-09-09 20:32:30, 127, 127, 127, 34.3470, 0.3066, 0.3355, 2277ms
2013-09-09 20:32:33, 127, 127, 127, 34.3309, 0.3067, 0.3358, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:32:36, 127, 127, 127, 34.4170, 0.3066, 0.3355, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:32:38, 127, 127, 127, 34.4704, 0.3068, 0.3359, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:32:41, 127, 127, 127, 34.4660, 0.3067, 0.3357, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:32:44, 127, 127, 127, 34.4411, 0.3066, 0.3355, 2246ms
2013-09-09 20:32:47, 127, 127, 127, 34.4517, 0.3065, 0.3354, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:32:49, 127, 127, 127, 34.3797, 0.3067, 0.3358, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:33:04, 13, 13, 13, 0.7544, 0.3085, 0.3460, 4446ms
2013-09-09 20:33:09, 13, 13, 13, 0.7532, 0.3084, 0.3457, 4431ms
2013-09-09 20:33:14, 13, 13, 13, 0.7525, 0.3087, 0.3463, 4431ms
2013-09-09 20:33:19, 13, 13, 13, 0.7535, 0.3088, 0.3468, 4430ms
2013-09-09 20:33:24, 13, 13, 13, 0.7562, 0.3087, 0.3465, 4415ms
2013-09-09 20:33:29, 13, 13, 13, 0.7570, 0.3087, 0.3466, 4400ms
2013-09-09 20:30:27, 255, 0, 0, 21.3763, 0.6189, 0.3465, 2277ms
2013-09-09 20:30:30, 255, 0, 0, 21.3728, 0.6189, 0.3465, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:30:33, 255, 0, 0, 21.4189, 0.6189, 0.3465, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:30:36, 255, 0, 0, 21.3692, 0.6190, 0.3465, 2278ms
2013-09-09 20:30:38, 255, 0, 0, 21.3928, 0.6190, 0.3465, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:30:41, 255, 0, 0, 21.4270, 0.6189, 0.3465, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:30:44, 255, 0, 0, 21.4340, 0.6188, 0.3465, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:30:47, 255, 0, 0, 21.4375, 0.6189, 0.3465, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:30:49, 255, 0, 0, 21.4412, 0.6190, 0.3465, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:30:52, 255, 0, 0, 21.4422, 0.6190, 0.3465, 2247ms
2013-09-09 20:30:55, 255, 0, 0, 21.4655, 0.6188, 0.3465, 2278ms
2013-09-09 20:31:06, 0, 255, 0, 76.1438, 0.3008, 0.5910, 1778ms
2013-09-09 20:31:08, 0, 255, 0, 76.2109, 0.3008, 0.5909, 1778ms
2013-09-09 20:31:11, 0, 255, 0, 76.0592, 0.3009, 0.5912, 1763ms
2013-09-09 20:31:13, 0, 255, 0, 76.3874, 0.3010, 0.5914, 1763ms
2013-09-09 20:31:15, 0, 255, 0, 76.2952, 0.3008, 0.5911, 1763ms
2013-09-09 20:31:18, 0, 255, 0, 76.3154, 0.3008, 0.5911, 1778ms
2013-09-09 20:31:20, 0, 255, 0, 76.2929, 0.3009, 0.5913, 1763ms
2013-09-09 20:31:32, 0, 0, 255, 7.6361, 0.1542, 0.0647, 2278ms
2013-09-09 20:31:35, 0, 0, 255, 7.6189, 0.1542, 0.0647, 2246ms
2013-09-09 20:31:38, 0, 0, 255, 7.6208, 0.1542, 0.0647, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:31:41, 0, 0, 255, 7.6211, 0.1542, 0.0647, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:31:43, 0, 0, 255, 7.6280, 0.1542, 0.0647, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:31:46, 0, 0, 255, 7.6246, 0.1542, 0.0648, 2246ms
2013-09-09 20:32:17, 0, 0, 255, 34.2440, 0.3069, 0.3360, 2262ms
2013-09-09 20:32:19, 0, 0, 255, 34.3165, 0.3065, 0.3354, 2262ms
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post #4 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 02:00 PM
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I hope someone from SpectraCAL to see your problem, I have seen your post to the SpectraCAL Forum @ 4 Sept, none has replyed yet. frown.gif

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post #5 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 04:30 PM
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Not true Ted
User Manni replied on the 5th Sep, he uses a Discus and has found it to be a better meter in a number of areas. By all accounts he is using the same Software C5 variant, which lends to support a case for a difference else where, such as settings, hardware, drivers. Need to eliminate varibles down to few as possible to get to the root cause.

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post #6 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

Not true Ted
User Manni replied on the 5th Sep, he uses a Discus and has found it to be a better meter in a number of areas. By all accounts he is using the same Software C5 variant, which lends to support a case for a difference else where, such as settings, hardware, drivers. Need to eliminate varibles down to few as possible to get to the root cause.

A whole week, none replyed yet from SpectraCAL Support to a customer that he has spend 3.000$ for a Software....

BTW, Manni's iD3 had problem and he returned it back for refund.

I believe too that Discus is superior meter, but from these numbers above, something weird is happening to the way that 2 different software are handling the same meter. in speed and repeatability.

As I know, Discus has 2 Intergration Modes with CalMAN, LightSpace has 4 Intergration Time modes + LLH Option. All Intergration Modes have fixed Intergration Time per Mode. Discus doesn''t have a user selectable Refreshing Rate Sync Option like id3.

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post #7 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 07:25 PM
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I am not a Spectracal employee, but maybe it's a "uh dunno", anyway a week ain't long in the scheme of things. Also they don't seem to list it for sale anymore which suggests they probably may not have it at hand to test. Anyway, a direct email to Spectracal could resolve the issue in a timely manner.

But don't dismiss the fact that another with the same software and meter is having good results. So my question here is what are the differences between to the two users.

My suggestion would be for mkoper and manni to trade setup info, in both directions and for both to try and repeat each others data.





final 2c is don't be to hasty in pointing the index finger of blame without all the facts.

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post #8 of 26 Old 09-09-2013, 07:49 PM
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I bet it's a sync issue with certain display types.
I've not used a Discus, but I seem to remember the C5 and C6 getting hung up on some levels, taking much longer on some reads (like 60% on a plasma) than others. With the C6 I think it got cleared up with some sync refinements incorporated into CM.
I also have an OEM D3 which works flawlessly for me, but I only got that recently.

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post #9 of 26 Old 09-11-2013, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe what kind of variables do you mean? I tested that also under Calman on my virtual machine with Windows XP (same there). Moreover i have been using my noetebook for last two years with other hardware (i1 Display 3, i1 Pro). There were many driver changes, system updates during that time and i've never had such a problem. Now it's a problem with the way Calman handles Discus.

I've just finished making a more detailed comparison. I tested discus again against my monitor. The same case. Calman readings are as much as twice slower sometimes. For example (LED Monitor):

White 100%: Calman 1050ms, LS 450ms
White 60%: Calman 1500ms, LS: 960ms
White 10%: Calman 4550ms, LS 4100ms
Red 100%: Calman 1850ms, LS 950ms
Green 100%: Calman 1350ms, LS 600ms
Blue 100%: Calman 1600ms, LS 950ms

I attach a detailed spreadsheet. Please download that and see it for yourself. I also added previous readings from plasma there.

discus handling.xlsx 41k .xlsx file
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File Type: xlsx discus handling.xlsx (40.7 KB, 14 views)
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post #10 of 26 Old 09-11-2013, 05:49 PM
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The xls worked for me once I converted the commas , to dots .rolleyes.gif

Varibles, with respect to manni who has the device. These could be the displays that is being measured, settings, source device, operating system, type of laptop, what ever that could be different or can be altered. I do suggest a sharing of info with this user could high light a problem.

A couple of factors which spring to mind looking at the data, LED , there seems to be a adaptive change for CalMAN. I know they spent lots of hours looking at repeatability in the LAB and so may be applying averaging to a number of samples, rather than just one or a few measures. The lower the individual and combination of the XYZ values(Not Y on it's own) denotes that trigger.

note 10% video for both LS and CM are about the same (4sec) for this level, which seems to mean they both work much the same at this point, which seems to reflect my note above.

If this is the case, send an email to Spectracal help(will probably get a better/detailed response),asking specifically if they are applying averaging techniques and if so can you get extra control of the trigger points(LLH) and or sampling rates.

The only caution, if this is your master device where you have no other of higher spec(spectro,( jeti, PR)), that having speed could not actually be more accurate. This is respect to the different results that you high lighted in your data. In other words, sometimes you can be repeatable but still wrong.

Another setting in Calman is source related, there is a time factor for the source to sync and make the image, i think this applies every read(speculation) even though it is the same source level or colour. I have found a min of 1~2seconds for alot of devices.

I did check the power required for your device, specs state 4.7~5.5v, have you tried a powered hub? Laptops are terrible, especially if you try to drive a number of USB ports.
CalMAN is more graphical and consumes more system resources than LS, which can be problematic for USB devices needing good voltage regulation.

Some things to try.

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post #11 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post


note 10% video for both LS and CM are about the same (4sec) for this level, which seems to mean they both work much the same at this point, which seems to reflect my note above.

This measurement is showing that calman maybe can read as fast as lightspace but something other is happening that is slowing down the readings to the other % or color readings. It has to do with the way each software is handling the meter.

If this is the case, send an email to Spectracal help(will probably get a better/detailed response),asking specifically if they are applying averaging techniques and if so can you get extra control of the trigger points(LLH) and or sampling rates.

SpectraCAL can download the LightSpace Free DPS Version to check it at their PC, if it's 2x times faster or more at their systems too.

Another setting in Calman is source related, there is a time factor for the source to sync and make the image, i think this applies every read(speculation) even though it is the same source level or colour. I have found a min of 1~2seconds for alot of devices.

He is using Meter Continious Mode, I don't know if the connected his Accupel as a source but at continious mode there no additional source delay because the displayed pattern is the same.

I did check the power required for your device, specs state 4.7~5.5v, have you tried a powered hub? Laptops are terrible, especially if you try to drive a number of USB ports.

He used the same USB port to read using both software, it's impossible to have power problem with CalMAN and not with LightSpace.

CalMAN is more graphical and consumes more system resources than LS, which can be problematic for USB devices needing good voltage regulation.

Yes, CalMAN may request more time to display the graphs but this is not reducing the meter repeatability that user has reported for that price range of the meter? Klein users have reported great speed with calman. CalMAN cant reduce the notebook USB power output, it just use more cpu and more ram, reducing the total available battery level faster, but we all use a powered notebook during the whole calibration time.

The user reported problem has to do with the fact that he was using his id3 for years, and he bought a pro colorimeter (that is supported to only to CalMAN Business/Ultimate, can't be used with Enthousiast Licence, and he has poor performance in repeatabilty and slow measurement time versus his id3.

Also, as Derek has post, the Discus is faster meter than C6, C6 supposted to be 3x faster than id3, so the user bought the discus to reduce the time that is currently spending at their customer houses, but in reality he will spend more time... and the repeatability is not so good as the id3.

The User don't have LightSpace, just use it to see what is happening there.
Maybe if he can run the same test using his id3, to compare the repeatability and measuring time using only calman.

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post #12 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 06:02 AM
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As I have stated before with the Discus we have no control over the actual read integration time just the 4 modes, normal, averaging, long, long+averaging. With CalMAN 5 you have access to all 4 modes in the advanced meter control. They can and do affect the read times. In fact we were the ones that had basICColor add the averaging modes in. You also have to take into account other factors. Source setup delay is different for each source device and if we are setting a pattern for the first time or are in continuous read. If you are running a AutoCal or AutoCube processing will be happening between each reading or series of readings. If you have a lot of charts up that are dynamically updating.

Here is the actual data from the CalMAN 5 log file sent to us:

000013 = 10:57:02.965 Source - Command WW100,235,235,235,10
000014 = 10:57:03.020 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ 0
000015 = 10:57:03.611 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:111.71101 Y:118.1264 Z:114.06431

100%
Source setup time - 55ms
Meter read time - 591ms

000082 = 10:57:23.934 Source - Command WW60,147,147,147,10
000083 = 10:57:23.943 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ
000084 = 10:57:24.791 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:38.857872 Y:41.364418 Z:39.149403

60%
Source setup time - 29ms
Meter read time - 848ms

000120 = 10:57:32.670 Source - Command WW30,082,082,082,10
000121 = 10:57:32.678 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ 0
000122 = 10:57:34.983 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:11.854504 Y:12.71142 Z:12.030128

30%
Source setup time - 8ms
Meter read time - 2305ms

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post #13 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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So the things are starting to clarify. Now i see two main problems with Calman & Discus.

The first problem:

- Calman has 2 integration modes for discus, the other two just add averaging which is done on calman's side, right? Lightspace has 4 separate modes and two of them are similar (or maybe the same) to what Calman has:
-- mode 0 - the fastest, calman can't measure that fast
-- mode 1 - that's problably what calman has under "normal exposure" mode( using this Calman measures LCD in 591ms, LS in 562ms)
-- mode 2 - the one that gives good repeatability on plasma and acceptable speed
-- mode 3 - that's probably what calman has under "long integration" mode, too long to use in field

So Calman basically lacks two most useful integration modes. Could you please add them?

As you can easily see the Long integration mode is too slow. Look at these plasma readings:
Code:
000288 = 20:50:04.173 Source - Command WW60,147,147,147,10
000289 = 20:50:04.174 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ  0
000290 = 20:50:09.734 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:35.32037 Y:37.035118 Z:42.100639
= 5 560ms
Code:
000307 = 20:50:31.204 Source - Command WW10,038,038,038,10
000308 = 20:50:31.206 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ  0
000309 = 20:50:41.550 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:0.75216007 Y:0.81156826 Z:0.85889345
= 10 290ms

This is to slow. Using mode 2 under LS the same readings are made in 2 250 and 4 450 ms. That's more than twice the difference.....

The second problem
The interval between continous readings is long. From the LCD log:
Code:
000329 = 10:59:[B]04.182[/B] basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:68.958321 Y:74.578514 Z:73.786324
000330 = 10:59:04.183 AutoCal - Meter Read
000331 = 10:59:[B]04.638[/B] IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 255, 255, 255 8 Bit windowSize 10 
000332 = 10:59:04.642 Source - Command WW100,255,255,255,10
000333 = 10:59:04.651 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ  0
000334 = 10:59:05.245 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:68.931534 Y:74.550835 Z:73.7826

There is about 500ms interval before generating a new command. Now we know where the difference in time on LCD comes from. The integration time is similar (591ms vs 420ms thats beacause of lack of shorter integration time, like "0" in LS), but there is additional 500ms interval and that's how LS returns readings in 420ms and calman in 1050ms. Again this number is more than twice bigger. What does the software within this 500ms? I run the program on a modern notebook with core i7 and SSD disk.
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post #14 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, when i use i1 Display 3. Following data is logged:
Code:
000129 = 16:42:47.331 Source - Command WW100,255,255,255,10
000130 = 16:42:47.344 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadXYZ  0
000131 = 16:42:47.448 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadRGB 2902500 2232500 1007500
000132 = 16:42:47.448 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadRAW X:71.892622 Y:77.45904 Z:81.209094
000133 = 16:42:47.950 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadRGB 2903500 2232500 1007500
000134 = 16:42:47.950 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadRAW X:71.928249 Y:77.472255 Z:81.209072
000135 = 16:42:47.950 X-Rite i1Display Retail - ReadXYZ XYZ X:71.928249 Y:77.472255 Z:81.209072

Could you tell me Derek which line is the actual measurement?
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post #15 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoper View Post

What does the software within this 500ms? I run the program on a modern notebook with core i7 and SSD disk.

It's not rocket science, it's XYZ to xyY calculation (3 calculations).

The time the meter is returning a value is different with the time that software needs to calculate some charts and fill some data fields....

These times that calman is storing @ log files includes the process time of the software? or it's the exact time that the software send the action code to the meter and the time the meter returns the XYZ data?

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post #16 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 10:14 AM
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I will say this again. The Discus only has 4 modes 0-3 and CalMAN 5 exposures those 4 modes per the SDK provided. CalMAN 5 does no other processing with the Discus. Set the mode, read the data, return XYZ.

Here is the documentation from the Discus SDK:

/*void DISCUSsetprecision(DISCUSdevhdl hDev, int level)
//set measurement precision of the device
//level:0, normal precision
//1, higher number of averages
//2, longer integration time
//3, higher number of averages AND longer integration time
*/
EXPORT void DISCUS_API DISCUSsetprecision(DISCUSdevhdl hDev, int level);

Here is the code in CalMAN for selecting the modes:
Code:
<ExposuresHigh Default="1">
      <Exposure Key="0" Name="Normal Exposure" Value="0" />
      <Exposure Key="1" Name="High Average" Value="1" />
      <Exposure Key="2" Name="Long Integration" Value="2" />
      <Exposure Key="3" Name="High Average and Long Integration" Value="3" />
    </ExposuresHigh>

Here is the code in CalMAN for setting the modes:
Code:
BOOL Discus::ReadXYZ(DWORD exposure)
{
LogWrite(Name,"ReadXYZ ",exposure);

// set precision
exposure = (DWORD)GetHighExposure();
exposure = exposure>3?3:(exposure<0?0:exposure);

DISCUS_setprecision(devHandle,exposure);

DISCUSresult XYZ;

int status = DISCUS_automeas(devHandle,&XYZ);

if(status != DISCUS_API_NO_ERROR)
{
LogWrite(Name,"Error DISCUS_automeas",(DWORD)status);

SetError(ERR_READ);
return FALSE;
}

double X = XYZ.X*matrix[0]+XYZ.Y*matrix[1]+XYZ.Z*matrix[2];
double Y = XYZ.X*matrix[3]+XYZ.Y*matrix[4]+XYZ.Z*matrix[5];
double Z = XYZ.X*matrix[6]+XYZ.Y*matrix[7]+XYZ.Z*matrix[8];

if(!SetXYZ(X,Y,Z,TRUE))
{
SetDarkCalibrated(FALSE);
SetError(ERR_READ);
return FALSE;
}

LogWrite(Name,"ReadXYZ XYZ ",(char *)GetXYZ());

return GetError()==ERR_NONE?TRUE:FALSE;
}
As you can see just the 4 modes and those are exactly what CalMAN 5 shows nothing to fix.

Also that 500ms between each reading is the default pattern generator delay unless you turn it off or set it to zero.

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post #17 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I will say again too. Why is it much slower than under LS then?

I made another comparision. The numbers are now deltas between "ReadXYZ" command and the actual measurement. Not between two measurements like before. Moreover there is still some extra time between two measurements, but more on this later:

Calman INTEGRATION TIME 0 (Normal Exposure) - readings are instable in this mode
W100%: 615 ms
W60%: 598 ms
W10%: 4264 ms
R100%: 826 ms
G100%: 589 ms
B 100%: 826 ms

Calman INTEGRATION TIME 1 (High Average)
W100%: 1874 ms
W60%: 5541 ms
W10%: 10362ms
R100%: 5557 ms
G100%: 3085ms
B100%: 5556ms

Calman INTEGRATION TIME 2 (Long Integration)
W100% 1861 ms
W60%: 5534 ms
W10%: 10345ms
R100%: 5541 ms
G100%: 3085ms
B100%: 5554ms

Because the measurement times looked incredibly similar in mode 2 & 1 i made another experiment. I connected my accupel and performed 21pt greyscale run. With "High Average" it took 2:04,516 with "Long Integration" it took 2:04,248. So is there any difference between these modes or what?

LightSpace INTEGRATION TIME 2
W100%: 1030ms
W60%: 2247ms
W10%: 4430ms
R100%: 2240ms
G100%: 1763ms
B100%: 2262ms

Derek please explain that to me. I don't care what kind of code stands behind that. I just want a software that is smooth and Calman isn't in that case. LS measures with the same repeatability within 40 to 60% shorter time! You can download a free DPS license of this software and check it for yourself. Please do it I really don't enjoy sitting here and running all these tests...

Now about this extra gap between measurements.
Derek, if i had set the delay to 500ms i wouldn't have been grumbling. The delay was set to 0 and the measurements were made in continous mode. Now, to be 100% sure that there are no other variables that might affect readings times, i haven't connected accupel and made sure that the delay is set to 0. The LAG is still there:
Code:
000035 = 21:26:54.972 basICColor Discus - ReadXYZ XYZ X:117.03745 Y:122.73598 Z:138.50475
000036 = 21:26:54.973 AutoCal - Meter Read
000037 = 21:26:55.611 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 235, 235, 235 8 Bit windowSize 10

Could you explain please why there is 639ms gap between returning a value and setting the I/O to start a new measurement?

All original logs are attached to the post. BTW note that LS report starts with old measurements from 09-09

20130912 (PDP three integration modes).zip 18k .zip file
CalibrationLog0912.csv 7k .csv file
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File Type: zip 20130912 (PDP three integration modes).zip (18.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: csv CalibrationLog0912.csv (6.5 KB, 9 views)
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post #18 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 03:28 PM
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What hardware are you running on, and what workflow are you using?

As people have mentioned above CalMAN does a lot of work to draw it's UI. Without any specs on the OS and hardware you're using (both CPU and GPU) it's hard to know exactly what might be happening.

I can tell you that with a Klien K10 with the meter set for 1 sample and the pattern delay on 0, we can do a 21 point grayscale reading in about 4.5 seconds.
Code:
[Log 09-12-2013]
000045 = 14:08:02.400 Initialized - Version 5.2.0.1322 - Level 81
000046 = 14:08:09.187 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 255, 255, 255 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000047 = 14:08:09.203 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000048 = 14:08:09.246 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3547E1FF55A4FF7E79FF003C303E N5G..U..~y..<0>
000049 = 14:08:09.247 AutoCal - Meter Read
000050 = 14:08:09.361 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 0, 0, 0 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000051 = 14:08:09.382 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000052 = 14:08:09.486 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3564AA0865C30871B608E03C303E N5d..e..q...<0>
000053 = 14:08:09.487 AutoCal - Meter Read
000054 = 14:08:09.593 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 13, 13, 13 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000055 = 14:08:09.605 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000056 = 14:08:09.758 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3556CDFF60D0FF41DC00803C303E N5V..`..A...<0>
000057 = 14:08:09.758 AutoCal - Meter Read
000058 = 14:08:09.865 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 26, 26, 26 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000059 = 14:08:09.878 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000060 = 14:08:09.934 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35439F00484E004EA900003C303E N5C..HN.N...<0>
000061 = 14:08:09.934 AutoCal - Meter Read
000062 = 14:08:10.041 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 38, 38, 38 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000063 = 14:08:10.054 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000064 = 14:08:10.094 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35647D006969006D2400003C303E N5d}.ii.m$..<0>
000065 = 14:08:10.095 AutoCal - Meter Read
000066 = 14:08:10.201 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 51, 51, 51 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000067 = 14:08:10.213 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000068 = 14:08:10.254 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3568200169D40166B501003C303E N5h .i..f...<0>
000069 = 14:08:10.255 AutoCal - Meter Read
000070 = 14:08:10.369 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 64, 64, 64 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000071 = 14:08:10.374 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000072 = 14:08:10.430 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354FB10353800355DE03003C303E N5O..S..U...<0>
000073 = 14:08:10.431 AutoCal - Meter Read
000074 = 14:08:10.541 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 76, 76, 76 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000075 = 14:08:10.558 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000076 = 14:08:10.605 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E357A28037F9B0341D704003C303E N5z(....A...<0>
000077 = 14:08:10.606 AutoCal - Meter Read
000078 = 14:08:10.716 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 89, 89, 89 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000079 = 14:08:10.734 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000080 = 14:08:10.814 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E356AEA046F5C0474C504003C303E N5j..o\.t...<0>
000081 = 14:08:10.815 AutoCal - Meter Read
000082 = 14:08:10.924 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 102, 102, 102 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000083 = 14:08:10.940 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000084 = 14:08:10.989 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354369054653054ADC05003C303E N5Ci.FS.J...<0>
000085 = 14:08:10.990 AutoCal - Meter Read
000086 = 14:08:11.098 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 115, 115, 115 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000087 = 14:08:11.113 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000088 = 14:08:11.182 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E356426056685056FE105003C303E N5d&.f..o...<0>
000089 = 14:08:11.182 AutoCal - Meter Read
000090 = 14:08:11.300 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 128, 128, 128 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000091 = 14:08:11.317 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000092 = 14:08:11.358 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E357920057B1705433206003C303E N5y .{..C2..<0>
000093 = 14:08:11.359 AutoCal - Meter Read
000094 = 14:08:11.498 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 140, 140, 140 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000095 = 14:08:11.504 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000096 = 14:08:11.551 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35564A0657E0065F2606003C303E N5VJ.W.._&..<0>
000097 = 14:08:11.552 AutoCal - Meter Read
000098 = 14:08:11.662 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 153, 153, 153 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000099 = 14:08:11.678 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000100 = 14:08:11.726 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E355E17065FE60667F406003C303E N5^.._..g...<0>
000101 = 14:08:11.726 AutoCal - Meter Read
000102 = 14:08:11.866 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 166, 166, 166 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000103 = 14:08:11.872 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000104 = 14:08:11.934 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E357F7106412E07465F07003C303E N5.q.A..F_..<0>
000105 = 14:08:11.934 AutoCal - Meter Read
000106 = 14:08:12.042 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 178, 178, 178 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000107 = 14:08:12.054 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000108 = 14:08:12.174 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354EBC07503407577F07803C303E N5N..P4.W...<0>
000109 = 14:08:12.174 AutoCal - Meter Read
000110 = 14:08:12.281 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 191, 191, 191 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000111 = 14:08:12.294 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000112 = 14:08:12.334 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3556EF07588E07613A07803C303E N5V..X..a:..<0>
000113 = 14:08:12.334 AutoCal - Meter Read
000114 = 14:08:12.444 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 204, 204, 204 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000115 = 14:08:12.460 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000116 = 14:08:12.542 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3567700769350772B107803C303E N5gp.i5.r...<0>
000117 = 14:08:12.543 AutoCal - Meter Read
000118 = 14:08:12.659 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 217, 217, 217 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000119 = 14:08:12.675 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000120 = 14:08:12.718 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35720707740F077E5E07803C303E N5r..t..~^..<0>
000121 = 14:08:12.719 AutoCal - Meter Read
000122 = 14:08:12.828 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 230, 230, 230 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000123 = 14:08:12.845 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000124 = 14:08:12.974 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354667084741084DD308E03C303E N5Fg.GA.M...<0>
000125 = 14:08:12.975 AutoCal - Meter Read
000126 = 14:08:13.095 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 242, 242, 242 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000127 = 14:08:13.102 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000128 = 14:08:13.150 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35519508523A085A2C08E03C303E N5Q..R:.Z,..<0>
000129 = 14:08:13.151 AutoCal - Meter Read
000130 = 14:08:13.619 IO_Source - Command V4 command'BLACK', level '0', 8 Bit
000131 = 14:08:13.624 Startup - MeterIO - Ran 4.44

That's with an empty workflow.

On quick view workflow loaded the time increases to 8.7
Code:
000398 = 14:12:12.610 AutoCal - Meter Read
000399 = 14:12:13.291 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 0, 0, 0 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000400 = 14:12:13.782 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000401 = 14:12:13.824 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35474FFF5244FF7FEEFF003C303E N5GO.RD.....<0>
000402 = 14:12:13.825 AutoCal - Meter Read
000403 = 14:12:13.988 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 13, 13, 13 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000404 = 14:12:14.080 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000405 = 14:12:14.144 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35443DFF51F6FF7CBCFF003C303E N5D=.Q..|...<0>
000406 = 14:12:14.145 AutoCal - Meter Read
000407 = 14:12:14.332 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 26, 26, 26 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000408 = 14:12:14.430 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000409 = 14:12:14.512 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354B1C00504E00573500003C303E N5K..PN.W5..<0>
000410 = 14:12:14.513 AutoCal - Meter Read
000411 = 14:12:14.651 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 38, 38, 38 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000412 = 14:12:14.737 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000413 = 14:12:14.785 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3568B60169570169E601003C303E N5h..iW.i...<0>
000414 = 14:12:14.785 AutoCal - Meter Read
000415 = 14:12:14.933 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 51, 51, 51 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000416 = 14:12:15.461 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000417 = 14:12:15.520 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35660B0369C703701403003C303E N5f..i..p...<0>
000418 = 14:12:15.522 AutoCal - Meter Read
000419 = 14:12:15.788 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 64, 64, 64 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000420 = 14:12:16.177 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000421 = 14:12:16.224 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3551E30454FB045A3504003C303E N5Q..T..Z5..<0>
000422 = 14:12:16.225 AutoCal - Meter Read
000423 = 14:12:16.389 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 76, 76, 76 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000424 = 14:12:16.469 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000425 = 14:12:16.512 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3551EF04551C045A4B04003C303E N5Q..U..ZK..<0>
000426 = 14:12:16.513 AutoCal - Meter Read
000427 = 14:12:16.653 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 89, 89, 89 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000428 = 14:12:16.715 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000429 = 14:12:16.768 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3574C404797204419605003C303E N5t..yr.A...<0>
000430 = 14:12:16.769 AutoCal - Meter Read
000431 = 14:12:16.895 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 102, 102, 102 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000432 = 14:12:16.953 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000433 = 14:12:17.024 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35514A055482055D4605003C303E N5QJ.T..]F..<0>
000434 = 14:12:17.025 AutoCal - Meter Read
000435 = 14:12:17.173 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 115, 115, 115 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000436 = 14:12:17.251 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000437 = 14:12:17.297 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E356E27056F9E057DC305003C303E N5n'.o..}...<0>
000438 = 14:12:17.297 AutoCal - Meter Read
000439 = 14:12:17.565 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 128, 128, 128 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000440 = 14:12:17.636 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000441 = 14:12:17.680 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35477C0648BE0650D006003C303E N5G|.H..P...<0>
000442 = 14:12:17.685 AutoCal - Meter Read
000443 = 14:12:17.822 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 140, 140, 140 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000444 = 14:12:17.899 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000445 = 14:12:17.936 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E355B67065CDD06670D06003C303E N5[g.\..g...<0>
000446 = 14:12:17.937 AutoCal - Meter Read
000447 = 14:12:18.072 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 153, 153, 153 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000448 = 14:12:18.145 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000449 = 14:12:18.192 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E356E5F067127067ED206003C303E N5n_.q'.~...<0>
000450 = 14:12:18.193 AutoCal - Meter Read
000451 = 14:12:18.332 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 166, 166, 166 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000452 = 14:12:18.499 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000453 = 14:12:18.624 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354ECF07505E07599B07803C303E N5N..P^.Y...<0>
000454 = 14:12:18.631 AutoCal - Meter Read
000455 = 14:12:18.759 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 178, 178, 178 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000456 = 14:12:18.891 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000457 = 14:12:18.927 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E354EE70750580759B707803C303E N5N..PX.Y...<0>
000458 = 14:12:18.931 AutoCal - Meter Read
000459 = 14:12:19.058 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 191, 191, 191 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000460 = 14:12:19.221 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000461 = 14:12:19.263 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E355E86076043076BFF07803C303E N5^..`C.k...<0>
000462 = 14:12:19.265 AutoCal - Meter Read
000463 = 14:12:19.398 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 204, 204, 204 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000464 = 14:12:19.506 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000465 = 14:12:19.551 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E356A43076BE307780007803C303E N5jC.k..x...<0>
000466 = 14:12:19.552 AutoCal - Meter Read
000467 = 14:12:19.689 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 217, 217, 217 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000468 = 14:12:19.759 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000469 = 14:12:19.807 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3579BF077BE707451008803C303E N5y..{..E...<0>
000470 = 14:12:19.810 AutoCal - Meter Read
000471 = 14:12:19.954 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 230, 230, 230 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000472 = 14:12:20.042 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000473 = 14:12:20.239 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E35501B0850EA085A3A08E03C303E N5P..P..Z:..<0>
000474 = 14:12:20.240 AutoCal - Meter Read
000475 = 14:12:20.365 IO_Source - Original Command RGB, 242, 242, 242 8 Bit windowSize 100 
000476 = 14:12:20.450 COM3 - Write Size:03 Bytes:03 Data:4E350D N5.
000477 = 14:12:20.496 COM3 - Read 002000 Size:0F Bytes:0F Data:4E3550100850D0085A1C08E03C303E N5P..P..Z...<0>
000478 = 14:12:20.496 AutoCal - Meter Read
000479 = 14:12:20.954 IO_Source - Command V4 command'BLACK', level '0', 8 Bit
000480 = 14:12:21.236 Startup - MeterIO - Ran 8.71

Or about a 200ms delay in updating all of the UI between readings.

But one thing to note is you usually need around 200ms or so for most displays to stabilize, when changing patterns.

QA-no delay.xlsx 4k .xlsx file
QA-500ms delay.xlsx 4k .xlsx file

You can see without delay the meter is almost always reading a full pattern behind, but not quite. That lag is contributed entirely by the displays processing. We've done extensive work to verify that when we say a pattern is ready the pattern has been changed in the pattern generator 100% of the time.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx QA-no delay.xlsx (3.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: xlsx QA-500ms delay.xlsx (3.6 KB, 13 views)

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post #19 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

What hardware are you running on, and what workflow are you using?

As people have mentioned above CalMAN does a lot of work to draw it's UI. Without any specs on the OS and hardware you're using (both CPU and GPU) it's hard to know exactly what might be happening.
That's with an empty workflow.

On quick view workflow loaded the time increases to 8.7

Or about a 200ms delay in updating all of the UI between readings.

But one thing to note is you usually need around 200ms or so for most displays to stabilize, when changing patterns.

QA-no delay.xlsx 4k .xlsx file
QA-500ms delay.xlsx 4k .xlsx file

You can see without delay the meter is almost always reading a full pattern behind, but not quite. That lag is contributed entirely by the displays processing. We've done extensive work to verify that when we say a pattern is ready the pattern has been changed in the pattern generator 100% of the time.

I'm running European Sony Vaio VPCF11S1E notebook with 8GB of ram and Samsung 840 SSD (256GB). Windows 8 and latest GPU drivers.

I understand that some extra time (about 120-140ms) is required when doing readings in sequence (that's mostly because of the input lag), BUT it's completely unnecessary and unwanted when doing reads in continuous mode. I'd like to have control over that time. Something like 600ms i completely unnecessary. That sounds like a serious lag for graphic rendering in 3D games, while we are talking about a 2D app, isn't that funny? The notebook is loaded heavily when Calman is working. Firstly i thought that's some kind of intentional slow down for a HT version but now with Ultimate it looks grotesquely. When i have four or five tabs of history it takes 4 to 5 seconds to switch between them...

I'm using my own workflow for all the tests and calibrations. There aren't too many charts. I can test it under yours if you send it to me and if it works under latest stable calman. I can't use the latest beta because it crashes with Accupel, i already reported that issue and i'm hoping for a fix.

Lastly, please stay focused on the main issue - too long integration times (twice longer than in LS). While the lag issue is serious it's the integration time problem that doesn't let me use discus as my primary colorimeter.
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post #20 of 26 Old 09-12-2013, 11:36 PM
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Have you tried Chad's comment, a syncing problem?
Is there a sync option with this device?

If a device measures inbetween, out of sync, it will likely default into long exposure. Ive seen this with my jeti at times where it has trouble making a reading with a display, I run autosync and it speeds up the process and becomes more repeatable.

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post #21 of 26 Old 09-13-2013, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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The answer is in my first post.
Quote:
Now, I would like to add that there are no sync options so the redings on plasma are very instable. The solution is to use "High Average" integration time which makes the readings even slower. (indicates that measurements are not repeatable but are all somewhere around the target and averaging them gives a good result.) In that case the discus is WAY slower than i1 d3. Oh God...
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-13-2013, 05:20 AM
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Ahh ok, clears that up for me, thanks

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post #23 of 26 Old 09-13-2013, 07:28 AM
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Derek, could CalMAN add some sync options like it has for the i1D3/C6?

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post #24 of 26 Old 07-12-2014, 03:34 AM
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Ted has recently pointed me to this thread and although it's a bit old I thought I'd revive it, one because I'm interested if there is any speed improvement to be brought to the Discus, two because my experience with the Discus is indeed different from the OP's and as I'm mentioned a few times in the thread I thought is would be good to post my experience for a more balanced feedback. Please note that we're using two entirely different technology (LCOS for me vs Plasma for the OP). I have never used the Discus on plasma so I can't comment on that.


First of all re performance of the Discus in Calman vs the i1d3, I can comment because I've used both, although only on LCOS. I tried two i1d3 and they were both slower and less accurate/reliable in low light than the Discus, which are the main reasons why I decided to sell mine off after I tried an i1d3 replacement that performed similarly poorly and get the discus. The i1d3 isn't bad, for the price it's even an excellent meter, but not what I expected re performance in low light.


Re low light accuracy, I have a JVC X30 (RS-45) and the i1pro3 was unable to measure 5% white reliably with the iris fully closed once the bulb had a few hundred hours on.


With the Discus in normal mode (I only use normal mode as it's fast, reliable and repeatable here), I can measure my BLACK LEVELS reliably just after a dark calibration. That's under 0.002 cd/m2 with my JVC iris fully closed. After a dark calibration, the accuracy at very low light drops so I can't measure the black levels reliably enough for an on/off contrast measurement past a few minutes, but it's still fine to measure black for a BT-1886 curve. The Discus is entirely reliable and repeatable at 5% white (that's around 0,06 cd/m2 in my setup) and above for about 180mn, at least when checking the greyscale (I just did a series of measurements to measure that, take into account display drift even after a 60mn min warm-up time as I'm using a projector). While the long integration and averaging moderately improve accuracy and repeatability, it's not significant enough to justify the huge loss of speed it causes (and I'm picky!). All the measurements attached below were done using normal integration mode (fastest).


Re speed, the Discus is significantly faster in Calman than the two i1d3 I tested in my setup. Not massively, but I'd say around 15%.


It reads around 3000 patches for a 5x5x5 LUT calibration on the radiance in about 20mn (pattern delay set to 0.25), which isn't bad in my books.
It runs a standard/optimized 17x17x17 (up to 1419 effective points) for the eecolor/MadVR in around two hours with all the charts disabled in the cube layout (only text data), which is about the official dark calibration window for the Discus (120mn) so it can be used reliably for large LUTs generation. Again I've tested it as being reliable until around 3 hours. After that it starts drifting a bit more significantly.


As the OP mentioned he used a virtual machine, I suggest he checks a few options that make a huge difference regarding performance in Calman. I can only talk about Parallels (using Parallels 9 with Mavericks now although it's not officially supported by Calman), but you need at least 4Gb of RAM allocated to the VM, the graphics options need to be maximized re memory (max of 1024Mb), and the performance options to be favouring the PC vs the Mac (faster virtual machine, tune windows for speed). Obviously you shouldn't be doing anything on the Mac side for best performance in Calman. Finally, you shouldn't use the "enable adaptive supervisor option", I had that enabled once by mistake and it does cut Calman's performance dramatically (it makes it 2-3 times slower).


To make sure this speed issue is not induced by the VM, you should try to test Calman in a native windows install or using bootcamp (that's how I isolated the performance drop mentioned above).


Of course the OP's issue might be due to the way the Discus is handled with plasma and I can't comment on that. What I can say though is that with LCOS it works great in Calman and is significantly faster than the i1d3.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Discus 30mn.PNG
Views:	15
Size:	335.7 KB
ID:	157434   Click image for larger version

Name:	Discus 180mn.PNG
Views:	14
Size:	336.2 KB
ID:	157442   Click image for larger version

Name:	Discus after Dark reset.PNG
Views:	13
Size:	331.8 KB
ID:	157450  

Last edited by Manni01; 07-12-2014 at 06:59 AM.
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post #25 of 26 Old 07-14-2014, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Ted has recently pointed me to this thread and although it's a bit old I thought I'd revive it, one because I'm interested if there is any speed improvement to be brought to the Discus, two because my experience with the Discus is indeed different from the OP's and as I'm mentioned a few times in the thread I thought is would be good to post my experience for a more balanced feedback. Please note that we're using two entirely different technology (LCOS for me vs Plasma for the OP). I have never used the Discus on plasma so I can't comment on that.
Hello Manni, the same thread has been posted by the same user to the SpectraCAL's Forum, I think is better idea to post there too, for quicker response from SpectraCAL to you.

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post #26 of 26 Old 07-14-2014, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hello Manni, the same thread has been posted by the same user to the SpectraCAL's Forum, I think is better idea to post there too, for quicker response from SpectraCAL to you.

Hi Ted,


Thanks but I already knew about the Spectracal thread (I have posted in it at the time the OP reported the issue). I didn't know about this AVS one though, which is why I posted here as I was mentioned a couple of times. Not expecting any response from Spectracal as the Discus works fine for me
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