New Help...Lumagen 2021, Calman5 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 09-09-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
colleycol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Need a little help here...

I tried my first calibration Saturday and it ended very bad. Had to reset my Lumagen so changes did not stay. The picture had a gray haze and did not look natural.

Can someone help me in the order I should be doing the calibration, especially since Lumagen just added the 9x9x9 Autocal feature. Is it grayscale, then CMS, then ???

I tried to do a 3D LUT and Spectacal told me , I didn't have the correct hardware.

Also should the ambient light filter be on the meter or off? I had to take it off for initializing but didn't tell me to put back on.

Trying to learn but the results I got were very bad and I know it was my fault probably. I couldn't get rid of the one red light before autocal that calls for optimizing your display. I have a JVC 4810 projector.

Any help is appreciated.

_________________________________________________
My Gear:
JVC RS4810, Prismasonic HD6000M anamorphic lens, Screen Excellence 4K 115 inch wide
Lumagen Radiance 2021
Onkyo 818, Emotiva Amp
B&W CT700 Series Speakers, (2) PowerSound Audio XS30s
Custom HTPC running Mediabrowser, 12TB Server for storage
...
colleycol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 09-09-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

Need a little help here...

I tried my first calibration Saturday and it ended very bad. Had to reset my Lumagen so changes did not stay. The picture had a gray haze and did not look natural.

Can someone help me in the order I should be doing the calibration, especially since Lumagen just added the 9x9x9 Autocal feature. Is it grayscale, then CMS, then ???

I tried to do a 3D LUT and Spectacal told me , I didn't have the correct hardware.

Also should the ambient light filter be on the meter or off? I had to take it off for initializing but didn't tell me to put back on.

Trying to learn but the results I got were very bad and I know it was my fault probably. I couldn't get rid of the one red light before autocal that calls for optimizing your display. I have a JVC 4810 projector.

Any help is appreciated.

Lumagen added the 9X9X9 CMS 3D LUT, but not the AutoCal. That is part of CalMAN, and IIRC, you must have at least CalMAN 5 Control to gain AutoCal capability. A Basic license won't do it. You also need to correctly set Brightness and Contrast and should also get the grayscale as good as possible within the display before beginning an AutoCal.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 09-09-2013, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
colleycol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, I have Calman Enthusiast.

Autocal was working but I am unsure what order I should do it.

So should I begin with a calibration disc first then Calman?

_________________________________________________
My Gear:
JVC RS4810, Prismasonic HD6000M anamorphic lens, Screen Excellence 4K 115 inch wide
Lumagen Radiance 2021
Onkyo 818, Emotiva Amp
B&W CT700 Series Speakers, (2) PowerSound Audio XS30s
Custom HTPC running Mediabrowser, 12TB Server for storage
...
colleycol is offline  
post #4 of 9 Old 09-09-2013, 09:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

Ok, I have Calman Enthusiast.

Autocal was working but I am unsure what order I should do it.

So should I begin with a calibration disc first then Calman?

Actually, you can use the Radiance's internal patterns in Reference mode to set Contrast and Brightness, then to do a basic 2-step (100% White / 30%Gray, etc.) grayscale using CalMAN to measure, then switch to the CalMAN workflow for 3D cube autocal.

To do the 9X9X9 autocal, you'll need to have the 082013 firmware in the Lumagen, and be using the CalMAN 5.2.0 beta build 1319. You don't need to worry about what to do first-following the CalMAN 3D Cube workflow will take you through the steps in the correct sequence. In case you're wondering, Lumagen recommends grayscale first followed by CMS cube, since the CMS uses the grayscale results as its basis for calculating luminances.

BTW, which red indicator on the Optimize Display screen are you having trouble with?

On a projector, you can either read straight from it (with the diffuser on the meter), or from the screen with the meter diffuser off. From the screen is trickier since you have to aim the meter for the most light without reading the meter's shadow. This means a tilted meter, and with some screen materials, off-axis readings are a bear.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 09-10-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
colleycol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Actually, you can use the Radiance's internal patterns in Reference mode to set Contrast and Brightness, then to do a basic 2-step (100% White / 30%Gray, etc.) grayscale using CalMAN to measure, then switch to the CalMAN workflow for 3D cube autocal.

To do the 9X9X9 autocal, you'll need to have the 082013 firmware in the Lumagen, and be using the CalMAN 5.2.0 beta build 1319. You don't need to worry about what to do first-following the CalMAN 3D Cube workflow will take you through the steps in the correct sequence. In case you're wondering, Lumagen recommends grayscale first followed by CMS cube, since the CMS uses the grayscale results as its basis for calculating luminances.

BTW, which red indicator on the Optimize Display screen are you having trouble with?

I am having trouble with the top circle. I believe its white level or something like that. All the others are green. I downloaded the update for the Lumagen as my first step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

On a projector, you can either read straight from it (with the diffuser on the meter), or from the screen with the meter diffuser off. From the screen is trickier since you have to aim the meter for the most light without reading the meter's shadow. This means a tilted meter, and with some screen materials, off-axis readings are a bear.

Ok, so from the projector, I just hang it in front of the lens and follow the Calman5?

First, do a 2 step Grayscale. then 3D Autocal. Is the 9x9x9 a replacment for the 3D cube autocal?

Thanks for the help.

_________________________________________________
My Gear:
JVC RS4810, Prismasonic HD6000M anamorphic lens, Screen Excellence 4K 115 inch wide
Lumagen Radiance 2021
Onkyo 818, Emotiva Amp
B&W CT700 Series Speakers, (2) PowerSound Audio XS30s
Custom HTPC running Mediabrowser, 12TB Server for storage
...
colleycol is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 09-10-2013, 01:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

I am having trouble with the top circle. I believe its white level or something like that. All the others are green. I downloaded the update for the Lumagen as my first step.
Ok, so from the projector, I just hang it in front of the lens and follow the Calman5?

First, do a 2 step Grayscale. then 3D Autocal. Is the 9x9x9 a replacment for the 3D cube autocal?

Thanks for the help.

The top circle is peak white, or how close your 100% White is to D65. The 9x9x9 is the 3D cube and replaces the 5x5x5 cube that was in the 2021 previously. Autocal is just adjusting the points in the cube.

A good 2-step grayscale should make that top circle green and will make it easier for the Lumagen's 3D cube CMS to rein in your display's gamut.

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 09-11-2013, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
colleycol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for all your help, I am going to read more here and at the Calman 5 site.

_________________________________________________
My Gear:
JVC RS4810, Prismasonic HD6000M anamorphic lens, Screen Excellence 4K 115 inch wide
Lumagen Radiance 2021
Onkyo 818, Emotiva Amp
B&W CT700 Series Speakers, (2) PowerSound Audio XS30s
Custom HTPC running Mediabrowser, 12TB Server for storage
...
colleycol is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 09-12-2013, 07:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rolls-Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victorville, CA
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

Thanks for all your help, I am going to read more here and at the Calman 5 site.

You bet. Don't worry, you'll figure it out. And once you get that 3D LUT done, you'll be amazed at how good your display can look!

...Royce...

"I never drink...wine."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1931
Rolls-Royce is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 09-12-2013, 02:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Doug Blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco - East Bay area
Posts: 3,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 216
Whenever you have the ability to calibrate from the screen, you should do it. ALWAYS! No room for discussion. The screen changes the light. If you calibrate directly from the projector, you aren't compensating from any color shift the screen causes, and yes, it can be VERY significant. One popular screen material adds about 600K of blue to everything. If you make the mistake of calibrating the projector (meter aimed at projector) without the screen, the images will always be too blue with that screen material. Some other screen material might lead you to images with some other color bias. And if the meter is not placed on your viewing axis, you may get mislead with inaccurate luminance measurements (most critical for medium-to-high gain screens). If you are trying to get 16 fL but can't, it may only be because the meter is not on the same axis as your eyes (if you have a screen with some gain).

I find the comment that it can be tricky to keep the meter out of the light path may or may not be true depending on the meter. I have zero trouble keeping my large-ish meter out of the light path. In fact, it is no more difficult than keeping my head out of the light path. But my meter has a 1-degree field of view so it can be placed near the main seat. So I set it up at the same height as my eyes and at a distance I view the screen from (or even farther) and make sure the axis of the meter matches the viewing axis.. If your meter has a wide field of view that requires placement close to the screen... well, that's just not the best sort of meter to use for projector calibration. Though you should STILL be able to do it OK, but it may take some time to find the right setup. Once you find the right height and angle for the tripod, it would be useful to mark the tripod so you can replicate everything next time you setup without all the trial and error.

Frankly, the light coming from the projector is a non-issue. What is important is the light you see from the screen. So to calibrate a projection setup, you really NEED to be reading off the screen. If your meter isn't suited to that use, sell it and get a different meter that is more appropriate for projectors. If you sit 10 feet from the screen and the meter you use has to be 1 or 2 feet from the screen, the meter will be positioned correctly if blocks your view of the center of the screen when you are in the main seat. But that sort of placement is where you get into trouble with the shadow of the meter. The farther you can place the meter from the screen without "reading" beyond the edges of the screen, the better for calibration off the screen.

"Movies is magic..." Van Dyke Parks
THX Certified Professional Video Calibration
ISF -- HAA -- www.dBtheatrical.com
Widescreen Review -- Home Theater & Sound
Doug Blackburn is offline  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off