Questions/Comments about Motion Smoother on Panasonic plasma's - AVS Forum

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gadgtfreek's Avatar gadgtfreek
07:47 AM Liked: 352
post #1 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 2,995
Joined: Aug 2012
Ill be the first to admit I'm not frame insertion expert at all, but I have some observations that lead to more questions about this tech.

  • When using Weak its hard for me to see any negatives, unless I put up a wedge pattern or something on Spears and Munsil, then I see a few curves to outer lines, granted they are subtle.
  • Medium and Strong really clean up pattern motion, but look horrible to me when watching actual content
  • I find it strange that most calibrators shun Motion Smoother, yet recommend sending one of these a 1080p/24hz signal and using the 24p setting of 60hz in the display menu. It's been proven that 60hz mode is using frame insertion that cannot be defeated. So where the confusing aspect comes in is, you get told not to use Motion Smoother, but then get told to use a 24hz mode that has frame insertion built in...
  • I know Cnet says 900 lines of motion resolution for a VT50 with Smoother off, and 1200 with it on, but when comparing a VT60 and ZT60, they say they cannot see a difference with one set to Weak and one set to Off, yet the test with Off shows 900 lines and Weak reports 1200 lines of motion resolution.
  • Is Weak actually the old Blur Reduction feature that just "created extra subfields", and Medium and Strong get into the MEMC?
  • When comparing some of the motion tests on Spears and Munsil version 2, I see more issues with 1080p/24hz in (Panasonic set to 60hz mode) and Smoother off vs. 1080p/60 in and Smoother set to Weak.
  • All of that being said its hard to see what Weak actually does, but 60hz 24p mode is obvious when I view blu-rays or 1080p/24 shows from Amazon. On one side the shows and movies seem to be very fluid and razor sharp, but on the other they do look a little "weird".
  • I also am reading now that some are recommending higher Smoother settings in 3D mode to compensate for some issues. I have not tried that yet.
  • Finally, if you have reliable blu-ray player, is their a fidelity difference between outputting 1080p/24 or 1080p/60 from the player on blu-ray?

Just kinda looking to drive a conversation on this and get different perspectives, I only bought this VT50 in March and have just really started messing with the smoothing since it was recently calibrated by a pro. I of course don't want to screw the image up because they calibration was awesome, but its hard using patterns at times to evaluate what you see in real content. If you google Motion Smoother and Panasonic, there hasn't been much discussion on it.

chunon's Avatar chunon
07:57 AM Liked: 529
post #2 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 5,232
Joined: Dec 2007
I think your theory of weak being like the blur reduction feature of a couple years ago has some merit, I know that feature increased moving lines of resolution. I am a fan of the weak/60hz combo myself. The 3;2 pulldown is pretty good on the Panasonics, I have heard 96hz had some issues in the past with the way it is implemented on the Panasonics.
gadgtfreek's Avatar gadgtfreek
08:01 AM Liked: 352
post #3 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 2,995
Joined: Aug 2012
96hz definitely has some weird contouring, easily see on people's faces. If the camera is still and they turn thier head quickly, its almost like a double/triple image. Other than that 96hz mode can look nice (I dont see flicker), and on the VT50 the MLL is a tad lower.

Chad has checked 96hz vs 60hz setting on the 2012's I know, and the calibration accuracy doesnt vary much. I'd just like to understand what the heck is going on a little more.

Im finding that Weak on, 24hz in, and the VT set to 60hz 24p mode may be a little too smooth for me. Even with Weak off, 60hz mode can look a little strange to me, but it is very fluid. That is why I question just inputting 1080p/60 from the player.
chunon's Avatar chunon
08:07 AM Liked: 529
post #4 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 5,232
Joined: Dec 2007
I remember seeing a post a while back about how 96hz was implmented something funky with the pulldown sequence and it had some negative effects, I believe that's where the 60hz recommendation came from. I may have been either Kevin Miller or Jeff Meir that mad that observation just don't recall.
gadgtfreek's Avatar gadgtfreek
08:19 AM Liked: 352
post #5 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 2,995
Joined: Aug 2012
Kevin Miller had that opinion but at least D-Nice disagreed or had not seen any evidence that 96hz mode was doing 3:2 pulldown first (D-Nice, and several other calibrators recommend 60hz over 96hz). IMO, that makes no sense. The motion in 96hz mode is pretty nice, it's just the false contouring that creeps in from time to time. I used 96hz mode for a few months without much complaining, but used 60hz on my GT30.

I think the way the Panasonic plasma's "draw" their images is why you get some double imaging in regular content and even more so in 96hz mode.

All of this is speculative of course, which is why I wanted to poke the conversation smile.gif
chunon's Avatar chunon
08:22 AM Liked: 529
post #6 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 5,232
Joined: Dec 2007
Okay that is the conversation I was remembering thanks for refreshing my memory. I did see some older posts from 2010 indicatiing a false contouring problem with 96hz on the VT25 so it sounds as if whatever the issue is it has possibly been around for a while.
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir
08:23 AM Liked: 446
post #7 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 10,477
Joined: Dec 2004
I see false contouring and well as occasional flicker (mostly on bright scenes) with 96hz. Panning sequences can be a bit smoother with 96hz, but not worth it IMO. I cannot stomach the motion smoother although "weak" on 3D sometimes is okay.

I am trying to determine whether to send 1080p/24 or 1080p/60 from my Blu-ray player (Oppo 103) using 60hz.
gadgtfreek's Avatar gadgtfreek
08:29 AM Liked: 352
post #8 of 8
09-10-2013 | Posts: 2,995
Joined: Aug 2012
I'm guessing 1080p/60 from an accurate player is going to be the most "reliable" image, but not the most "jazzy" if you catch my drift. Then there are plenty of folks I've talked to that like 96hz, makes the discussion even more complicated and there is only so much you can do staring at disk patterns smile.gif

I guess most good players can handle 1080p/60 output of a blu-ray player without causing any issues.
Tags: Panasonic Viera Tc P55vt50 , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv
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