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post #1 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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On my samsung I notice lowering gamma too -1 from zero helps contrast ratio with bright screens a bit but gives it a black and white, cheap dynamic contrast look on some and is too dark especially on some shows.I'm now trying gamma +1 too get rid of that cheap look and dynamic contrast low too counter the washed out bright gamma setting and brighten lighter areas like in hockey etc.

I use ycc4:4:4 limited on cable box.Would there be any advantage too using rgb full range when using dynamic contrast ? As the brighter gamma setting and dynamic contrast low seem too work well together from first look.
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

On my samsung I notice lowering gamma too -1 from zero helps contrast ratio with bright screens a bit but gives it a black and white, cheap dynamic contrast look on some and is too dark especially on some shows.I'm now trying gamma +1 too get rid of that cheap look and dynamic contrast low too counter the washed out bright gamma setting and brighten lighter areas like in hockey etc.

I use ycc4:4:4 limited on cable box.Would there be any advantage too using rgb full range when using dynamic contrast ? As the brighter gamma setting and dynamic contrast low seem too work well together from first look.

Without a meter, you NEVER know which gamma setting (-1? 0? +1) is the most correct one.

In my Samsung (an old Samsung model), when connecting to my set top box, the default gamma setting 0 will give me a gamma curve ranging from ~2.0 (at the low-end) to ~2.2 (at the high-end) - averaging at ~2.1. This gives me a scientific clue to set it as -1 so that the gamma is now measured as ~2.1 (low end) - ~2.3 (high end).

Personally, I hate the effect of Dynamic Contrast (making dark scene lossing shadow details) so I always turn it off.
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

On my samsung I notice lowering gamma too -1 from zero helps contrast ratio with bright screens a bit but gives it a black and white, cheap dynamic contrast look on some and is too dark especially on some shows.I'm now trying gamma +1 too get rid of that cheap look and dynamic contrast low too counter the washed out bright gamma setting and brighten lighter areas like in hockey etc.

I use ycc4:4:4 limited on cable box.Would there be any advantage too using rgb full range when using dynamic contrast ? As the brighter gamma setting and dynamic contrast low seem too work well together from first look.
To, too, two..... Please look them up. It isn't complicated.
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 05:06 PM
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It sure seems like something basic is not right with your TV. Samsung TVs I've worked on (many over the years) have NEVER looked the way you are describing. I think you have something somewhere that is fundamentally not right.

There is ZERO reason to use 4:4:4 for video, it contains far more color information than human vision can detect. 4:2:2 is more appropriate. But that's not likely to resolve your issue. I've never encountered a Samsung display that did anything better in RGB mode than YCbCr 4:2:2. Your cable box is stupid if it allows you to set "high" or :

It is VERY difficult to speculate about what might be wrong with your settings, but man, it sounds like what happens when someone messes around in the service menu and upsets something without having a way to get back to the previous setting.

You should check with the owner's forum for your model series and see what settings other people are using. As we have told you a number of times, without a meter you are just guessing at settings and it is easy to get the TV out in the woods, settings wise. It might be better to reset everything in the user menu (most Samsungs have a number of Reset buttons spread across several menus) and start again. You should probably be using Movie mode unless you have a darn good reason to use some other mode. RGB full range will not fix the problem you have... as I said, there is something fundamentally wrong with your settings if your Samsung TV looks like you describe it. It's not normal for an unmolested Samsung display to look the way you describe yours.

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post #5 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 05:20 PM
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There is ZERO reason to use 4:4:4 for video

Except that many cable boxes don't let you choose between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. Since HDMI doesn't transfer 4:2:0 and content is 4:2:0, something has to change and consumer electronics don't frequently give you a choice.

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post #6 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

I use ycc4:4:4 limited on cable box.Would there be any advantage too using rgb full range when using dynamic contrast ? As the brighter gamma setting and dynamic contrast low seem too work well together from first look.

No, there isn't a good reason.

Also you need to go buy a meter, your correlation between your changes and the effects are heavily colored by the fact that you likely have several other problems you've get to identify. You are adjusting parameters and you have no idea where they are compared to where they should be.

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post #7 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 05:53 PM
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Most of the reason I'm asking is because I watch a lot of hockey and it just looks so dim.The settings im trying helped one hockey game but Now I notice on another hockey game it has the dynamic space age techno look....I thought rgb full has more grayscale gradations then limited ycc? Doesn't dynamic contrast show less midtone grayscale gradations? My reasoning was too brighten things up and make gray tones more balanced.

Ps I've never seen anybody list adc results that were anything close too the ones on my tv.There is a very slight chance I copied them down wrong (113 darks 145 brights). I don't want to go into service menu and fiddle around with different settings as I know I shouldnt go there.
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 08:23 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You guys have no will power!wink.gifeek.gifsmile.gif
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-16-2013, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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ok Thanks .I guess a box that does 4:2:2 would help here.Doubt I'm gonna shell out another $400 for another box.Especially since it's not even 2 years old.

Ps I lowered contrast to 85 and raised brightness too 57 and color 55.

Edit after more viewing .Its probably best too leave the contrast cranked up high while using dynamic contrast and/or brighter gamma setting and live with the piercing whites,but it's just a bit much.I'm dropping dynamic contrast again.

Still experimenting. redface.gif
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 06:31 AM
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Vic really needs to listen to these people. You're working blind.
Quote:
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Your perception is a tricky thing. You can easily fool yourself into thinking you have "good" adjustments... then you actually measure what you've done and find you are so wrong it's not even funny.
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Surprisingly, when a video display is accurately adjusted with instrumentation... our perception INSTANTLY recognizes the images as accurate... though we may have THOUGHT the non-instrumented adjustments looked great, it's only when you see the instrumented/calibrated images that you think "Oh, guess I wasn't doing as well as I thought." Perception is a funny thing.
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The way I go about is 1)get the real shiny brights so they don't shine/torch too much and the right color,then the next levels of bright shades the right color and need too match them to color of shiny parts as close as possible.2)Then tweaking the abl washed out murky screens to look as good in color as possible without ruining part 1.Go back and forth between 1 and 2..Then part 3 is get the dark screens right..Repeat procedure 10000 times on many various screens.Then I know some things too look for which is important..(is the suns reflection the right color on outdoor programs( got too know what time of day program is filmed),skintones,grass tree sky color,gamma..Then call the doctor,divorce counsellor,and hope the tv doesn't blow up.
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post #13 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 02:28 PM
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Except that many cable boxes don't let you choose between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. Since HDMI doesn't transfer 4:2:0 and content is 4:2:0, something has to change and consumer electronics don't frequently give you a choice.

Right, forgot about the lack of choice on many STBs. They may convert RGB to YCbCr but not decimate the color data to 4:2:2

I got distracted in the previous post and left a dangling thought... cable or satellite boxes that let you choose different digital ranges for YCbCr (full or expanded versus normal or limited) because YCbCr for consumer video is always supposed to be 16-235 which is usually named Normal or Limited.

Something else just occurred to me... if the original poster has a setting in the Samsung TV for expanded/limited or normal/full or whatever names Samsung is using in his model, he may have selected the wrong mode because Samsung labeled those controls backwards for a LONG time, so trying the other setting might resolve the issue also.

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post #14 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 03:26 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You guys have no will power!wink.gifeek.gifsmile.gif

Actually I like vic's posts and the reactions, calibration performance art.
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You guys have no will power!wink.gifeek.gifsmile.gif

Actually I like vic's posts and the reactions, calibration performance art.
Salvador Dali, eat your heart out! Surrealism is back in vogue.
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-17-2013, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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George-do you want a calibration with my ipad? (redface.gif)

Skintones may have a red push ===>mad.gif
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post #17 of 17 Old 10-18-2013, 06:09 PM
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ok Thanks .I guess a box that does 4:2:2 would help here.Doubt I'm gonna shell out another $400 for another box.Especially since it's not even 2 years old.

Ps I lowered contrast to 85 and raised brightness too 57 and color 55.

Edit after more viewing .Its probably best too leave the contrast cranked up high while using dynamic contrast and/or brighter gamma setting and live with the piercing whites,but it's just a bit much.I'm dropping dynamic contrast again.

Still experimenting. redface.gif

You have a reading comprehension problem. I never said 4:2:2 would make your TV look better. I said using 4:4:4 (when 4:2:2 is an available option) is a waste as it offers zero advantage over 4:2:2.... but as I was reminded (and agree with) a lot of cable or satellite boxes don't offer a 4:2:2 option.

Your description of how you are selecting the right contrast setting is not good and you should NEVER use dynamic contrast.

Is this a plasma TV? I forget. If it is a plasma TV it will ALWAYS look dim on content like hockey or skiing where images are mostly white because plasma TVs will not produce the same light output for a mostly white image as they do for images with small areas of white or no white at all. In fact, a plasma TV will be about 1/2 as bright for an image of hockey or skiing as it would be for a light bulb surrounded by a dimly lit room. The hockey ice or snow will measure no more than 17 fL or so, while you could have 30+ fL for the light bulb (assuming you are using reasonable user menu settings). If this is a plasma TV, you can FORGET trying to make hockey or snow scenes look bright because it is never going to happen.

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