CalMAN 5.2 // eeColor Processor question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I bypassed the Calibrate RGB Balance section as it should not be required as was the case previously. Correct?

Calibrate 3D Cube LUT setup:

There is no other option available.





When I press Auto Calibrate I get this:



What and where are the correct settings? Sotti? Derek?

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post #2 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 01:26 PM
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Just connect to it as a colorbox.

The EE entry is for people who want to use it with it's original 3D Luts.

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post #3 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Just connect to it as a colorbox.

The EE entry is for people who want to use it with it's original 3D Luts.

That's the way I've always done it. I thought there was something new going on? Should I calibrate RGB Balance or not?

What would someone want to do with the original LUTs when they're using CalMAN?

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post #4 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

That's the way I've always done it. I thought there was something new going on? Should I calibrate RGB Balance or not?

Doing a grayscale before running the cube is totally appropriate, it typically speeds up the cube process. But you do need to connect as a colorbox before doing that portion of the calibration.

I don't remember a time when we had cube's enabled for the EE as direct connect, we do support it with the our "Cube Generator" virtual option.

The new stuff is all under the hood in our interpolation algorithms, and a redistribution of points for our standard and detailed options. We've seen a statistically significant improvement in both accuracy and in subjective visual artifacts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

What would someone want to do with the original LUTs when they're using CalMAN?

Well our original support for the EE came in CalMAN 4 , so that support is a hold over and what the folks at EE wanted.

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post #5 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 03:22 PM
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Yes I did as Joel said last week for a 4913 LUT and the EE box, worked well except it took me 6 hours and 12000 reads to complete.
For whatever reason CM was defaulting to BT 1886 so I prompted to power. Also the end result PQ looked a bit faded in the brighter scenes, using my normal pre calibration settings.
However that was probably because I did a on-screen meter setup, and imo calibrating a Plasma should be off-screen.

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post #6 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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We wouldn't recommend going beyond the detailed settings.

From all the modeling we've done, the differences between accuracy in the detailed setting versus a 16x16x16 is very small.

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post #7 of 38 Old 10-22-2013, 09:07 PM
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I am sure you are right, but using color temp Normal in my VT60 I feel I have to make some pretty big adjustment to Blue (-17 in high range) to bring down the color temp to about 65K and get my 235 reading were I want it.
I did say that I saw a nice improvement with your new LUT platform. .

Question Joel, would you think that a Jeti 1201 would get me better visible results than a I1Pro 2 for profiling the K10-A.?

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post #8 of 38 Old 10-23-2013, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post


Well our original support for the EE came in CalMAN 4 , so that support is a hold over and what the folks at EE wanted.

Are you saying that the only way Calman will produce LUTs on the fly is if you call it the Spectracal version because if you select it as the EE version in the drop down box Calman won't do anything with it?

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post #9 of 38 Old 10-23-2013, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Are you saying that the only way Calman will produce LUTs on the fly is if you call it the Spectracal version because if you select it as the EE version in the drop down box Calman won't do anything with it?

Our support for the eeColor was always built around what ee wanted out of the device. Which is why we went out and created the OEM version branded the ColorBox. If you want to connect to an eeColor as a ColorBox to use the 3D LUT for correction instead of a creative look, that is a supported use.

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post #10 of 38 Old 11-05-2013, 01:13 PM
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How much are the ColorBox or the eeColor boxes? Where are they for sale in the US?

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post #11 of 38 Old 11-05-2013, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

How much are the ColorBox or the eeColor boxes? Where are they for sale in the US?

B.

eeColor 3D LUT Boxes are Available In Stock here. (Shipping within 24hours)

The default price is for U.S. Orders. Click to Delivery Options for International Shipping (Non-US), it will display to you the price after that.

You can use eeColor 3D LUT Box to perform Large 3D Cube Calibrations with LightSpace Full CMS/Quick Profile/HCC/HCL Software Versions or CalMAN 5 Enthusiast/Expert/Professional/Studio/Ultimate.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
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post #12 of 38 Old 11-20-2013, 05:41 AM
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Today received my eecolor via Ted.
I can finally load up my LUT, yohoo biggrin.gif
The picture just looks penomenal accurate now, way better than before.
I really dont regret the money I have spent. wink.gif
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post #13 of 38 Old 11-20-2013, 07:02 AM
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I also received my eecolor box via Ted. Super fast delivery and great support as always. Now if only I can find the time to calibrate in 4913 points...biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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Does the box support more than one LUT? Can I set up one for Rec 709 with D65 and one for black and white @ 5400/5600? And, if so, how do I recall it easily? Does the box have RS232?

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post #15 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Does the box support more than one LUT? Can I set up one for Rec 709 with D65 and one for black and white @ 5400/5600? And, if so, how do I recall it easily? Does the box have RS232?

B.


Hello Brian, eecolor has 6 memory slots, you can change them using it's remote.

If you will use LightSpace, LUT's are uploaded with eeColor Application. (External Utility that is coming with eeColor)

If you will use CalMAN Enthousiast or Ultimate, LUTs are uploaded from inside CalMAN Software.

USB Connection is used for the above LUT uploads.

eeColor is not a pattern generator, if you don't have an external pattern generator you can LightSpace/CalMAN Internal Pattern Generator for the start, using your Notebook HDMI Output. (I don't recommend this idea since you have to check if your Notebook output is ok versus your Player Output, by performing some test.)

The most accurate thing is to use LightSpace with my Disk that is the only way to calibrate the whole video signal chain.

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post #16 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 03:11 PM
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It's an IR remote? What's it look like?

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post #17 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

It's an IR remote? What's it look like?

B.



Yes, It's an IR Remote.

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post #18 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Can I set up one for Rec 709 with D65 and one for black and white @ 5400/5600?

B.

yes, each of the LUTs also has 2 selections for white point so you can have D65 and equal energy or whatever you want for the second choice.

Drawbacks to be aware of:

1. Will not pass 3D (packed frames)
2. Will only pass 2 channel stereo
3. Can not change LUTs when processing 480i/480p
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post #19 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, each of the LUTs also has 2 selections for white point so you can have D65 and equal energy or whatever you want for the second choice.

Drawbacks to be aware of:

1. Will not pass 3D (packed frames)
2. Will only pass 2 channel stereo
3. Can not change LUTs when processing 480i/480p

Ah! So this is why everyone and their mother doesn't have one?! In my case I don't care about 3D and I am using a dedicated video output to the TV, so no problem.

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post #20 of 38 Old 11-22-2013, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes, each of the LUTs also has 2 selections for white point so you can have D65 and equal energy or whatever you want for the second choice.

Drawbacks to be aware of:

1. Will not pass 3D (packed frames)
2. Will only pass 2 channel stereo
3. Can not change LUTs when processing 480i/480p

This is incorrect. Somebody ran tests with a QD780 and reported the eeColor passes:

Dolby 5.1
DTS-ES 6.1
PCM: 2.0, 2.1 5.1, 6.1, 7.1
DD+/TrueHD: Dolby Digital Plus (7.1, 5.1, 2.0) and Dolby True HD (7.1, 2.0)
DTS-HD: DTS HD-HRA (7.1, 5.1), Master Audio (7.1, 5.1)

- M

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post #21 of 38 Old 11-23-2013, 03:19 AM
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Mine doesn't, maybe they have upgraded new units. The eeColor rep I spoke with about it said they were working on a fix a few months ago.
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post #22 of 38 Old 11-23-2013, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Mine doesn't, maybe they have upgraded new units. The eeColor rep I spoke with about it said they were working on a fix a few months ago.

Correct. High Def In > eeBox > Stereo Out

From a higher power:

Yes ... one can't get Vesa to negotiate higher def audio channels with eeColor ... only stereo. You can force high def audio channels and it will go through eeColor,
but as soon as VESA kicks in again (POR or reconnect HDMI cables) , it will all go back to stereo. That's because eeColor tells the world it is "stereo only" via VESA.

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post #23 of 38 Old 11-23-2013, 07:48 AM
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Tom Bond told me they were going to update the EDID in firmware to advertise DD5.1, DTS, etc. but that was back in April and haven't heard anything yet. Is it official that this will never happen?
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post #24 of 38 Old 11-23-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Tom Bond told me they were going to update the EDID in firmware to advertise DD5.1, DTS, etc. but that was back in April and haven't heard anything yet. Is it official that this will never happen?

I talk to Tom on a regular basis. Things move slowly there and I don't know the answer to your question. I believe he's still on a two week Asian trip. frown.gif

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post #25 of 38 Old 11-23-2013, 01:39 PM
 
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I am lost as to what VESA is. Do you have to use it to get your 3D LUT to work on your TV with Dolby Digital 5.1 and actually hear 5.1 sound? Why is 3D not working? Are they going to fix either of the issues? What is the official and unofficial statement regarding these problems?
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post #26 of 38 Old 11-24-2013, 07:51 AM
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VESA was the wrong term. He was referring to EDID

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post #27 of 38 Old 11-24-2013, 09:29 AM
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1. Will not pass 3D (packed frames)

eeColor has no plans to update the firmware to support 3D (frame packed signal) pass throu singal. This means that you can't watch a Blu-Ray 3D Movie throu the eecolor.

Solutions for this:

i) If you have an AVR with 2 HDMI Outputs, you can connect No.1 HDMI Out to eecolor -> Display for 2D Movies and No.2 HDMI Out to Display directly for 3D Movies.

ii) If you have a Blu-Ray Player with 2 HDMI Outputs, you can do similar setup connections like i), for the Main and Sub HDMI Out.

iii) If you have a Blu-Ray Player with 1 HDMI Output, you can connect an HDMI Splitter, where the one output will go to your display directly and the other throu the eeColor and then to the display.

iv If you dont want to spend any extra money, simply remove from the signal chain the eeColor if you want to see a 3D Movie.

3D Content + Accurate Calibration is something can never happen for many reasons. Each glasses measures differently if you measure the left glass len or the right, also if you measure 3 different pair of glasses you will get different readings too....

Just for your info, there is not available any external LUT Horder Device for 17-Point Cube LUT Size that can be used in HT Enviroment (feature HDMI In-Out) with 3D Frame Packed Signal Support. In PRO world Pandora Pluto (5000$) supports 3D Frame Packed but dont have HDMI (In-Out) Connections that can be used for HT because HD-SDI to HDMI Signal Convertors will not work because of the HDCP.

You can stay with a calibration using the internal display controls for 3D Movies. 3D Movies is for fun only.

2. Will only pass 2 channel stereo

This is not confirmed to all systems, it has to do with the devices connects to your chain, If you add a device like AVR or Darbee before eeColor it will pass Multichannel Audio, also to some systems it will pass multichannel audio without any extra device to be connected throu the eecolor signal chain.... But why anyone need this?

i) No need Multichannel Audio If you have a Projector, If you need to hear audio from projector, the internal speakers of projectors are mono or stereo, lol.

ii) No need Multichannel Audio if you have a TV, I haven't seen a TV with more than 2 channels equiped speakers, some expensive TV's they have 1 or 2 subwoofers but they still feature 2 Channel Sound. Before 10 years there where available some CRT's with 4-Channel Audio, using 2 extra external wired speakers. lol

iii) If you have an AVR, you will connect the eeColor at the AVR HDMI Output, you dont need to have multichannel audio to go to the projector of the TV, since the AVR will receive the Multichannel signal before the eecolor.

3. Can not change LUTs when processing 480i/480p

Noone with ever use this resolution, 480i means NTSC DVD Movies, Old DVD Player who are playing this resolution dont have HDMI Out to connect them to eecolor.

DVD Players with HDMI will upscale the old DVD NTSC Movies signal to 1080i or 1080p so you will have no problem with eecolor.

Blu-Ray Players will upscale these old DVD NTSC Movies to 1080i or 1080p also.

eeColor's Power is it's big 3D LUT Size, for example:

Lumagen Radience have 1D + 5-Point 3D Cube (146 Color Points)....Cost: 1.500$ - 5.495$

Radiance 20xx have 9-Point Cube 1D + 5-Point 3D Cube (146 Color Points)...Cost: 2.245$ - 3.195$

eeColor has 1D (not used for HT Calibrations) + 65-Point 3D Cube (274.625 Color Points)....Cost: 700$ including shipping.

** I'm comparing only LUT Size of the above HT Solutions, Lumagen have a tons of others very important features, that's why is the king of HT Calibrations so far.

Lumagen solutions are featuring Pattern Generator also. eeColor can't be used as a pattern generator....

eeColor was not so popular so far because an external pattern generator was needed to perform a large 3D Cube calibration. This means +1500$ more! The most economy extrernal patttern generators are the Lumagen Mini (1.500$) or the AccuPel DVG-5000 (1.500$).

But after the arrival of Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk, a pattern generator is not needed if you will use only LightSpace Software; more info about how it works can be found to my homepage or to my disk thread of AVSForum.

And this is the only available solution in HT World for calibrating the whole video signal chain... This makes eeColor an amazing solution for its price for someone who want to enter to 3D Cube World!

That's why I advertise that Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk saves you at least 1.500$ at the bottom of my website pages wink.gif

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post #28 of 38 Old 11-24-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
iii) If you have an AVR, you will connect the eeColor at the AVR HDMI Output, you dont need to have multichannel audio to go to the projector of the TV, since the AVR will receive the Multichannel signal before the eecolor.
How much lag does eecolor introduce, if any?
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post #29 of 38 Old 11-24-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Quote:
iii) If you have an AVR, you will connect the eeColor at the AVR HDMI Output, you dont need to have multichannel audio to go to the projector of the TV, since the AVR will receive the Multichannel signal before the eecolor.
How much lag does eecolor introduce, if any?

I haven't measured it, but keep in mind that eeColor is only a LUT Holder Device, it's not a Video Processor that will have an higher Lag because of the internal signal proccessing that cannot be bypassed.

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post #30 of 38 Old 11-24-2013, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

iii) If you have an AVR, you will connect the eeColor at the AVR HDMI Output, you dont need to have multichannel audio to go to the projector of the TV, since the AVR will receive the Multichannel signal before the eecolor.

Yes. Very few would have the requirement of passing high def audio formats through the eeBox whose main job is to hold and process video LUTs..

BD Player > AVR > eeBox > Display for video
BD Player > AVR > 5.1+ > Speakers for audio

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