Alternatives to recertification for Eye One Problem meter? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I bought a used Eye One Pro rev D on Ebay six months ago. I think it would be wise to get it recalibrate as I don't think it has been certified in probably four or more years. And I have no idea how it was stored or treated by its previous owner.

I am not doing calibrations for anyone but myself and family. I just need to know that the readings are accurate. But Xrite says they will charge me like $250 for recertification and if it needs any adjustments it will cost over $400 total.

That is just too much money at this time. I want to know if there are any low cost alternatives? Couldn't another amateur with a recently certified reference meter be able to compare the two and tell me how accurate my meter is?

And if is is found to be inaccurate even if they could not actually fix the mechanical parts of the meter couldn't they just give me the values to plug in as offsets so I would get accurate readings?

If anyone can do anything like this I would pay you for the effort. Please let me know what my options are.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 08:15 PM
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I had/have the same desire to "prove" my i1pro rev D.

My phone call to x-rite was quoted as 400 to start,

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post #3 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 08:25 PM
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It's a waste of money for enthusiasts.. I have never seen a report of an undamaged i1Pro Rev D failing re-certification and I have been tracking this for years now.. this meter is still used by Professionals globally, they do re-certify, as all Professionals should do.

Alternatives to recertification
If you want it checked, I suggest you hire a Professional with a JETI, Photo Research PR-655 (with 5nm option), Photo PR-670 or equivalent reference Spectro (or perhaps even one with a recently certified i1Pro / i1Pro2) to come to your house for the verification and possibly a full calibration.. it can be a great educational experience if you get a Calibrator that also takes the time to explain the process while the calibration is happening on your actual display.

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post #4 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 08:44 PM
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One thing you could do is purchase some light bulbs/LED bulbs that have very well specified spectra, and measure them with the i1 pro. You can also do the same in reflectance mode by measuring standard color patches (munsell I think is a good one).
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post #5 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 08:55 PM
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the bulb method would not work (even those bulbs, at least available known options to enthusiasts/enthusiasts budget, are off more than the meter's spec'd tolerance) and the munsell patches wouldn't be acceptable in this case IMO since the meter's lamp and the software (for our purpose) comes into play.

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post #6 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 09:20 PM
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I'm guessing it's because reflectance mode would eliminate a lot of the optics pipeline, right? (including issues with stray light). My understanding is that reflectance mode has a higher tolerance for bandpass errors than emmissive mode, so errors that wouldn't show up in reflectance mode would show up when measuring light sources.


What about sunlight - are there any conditions under which the spectra of sunlight is reliably constant (say during a summer solstice in a particular geographic location on a cloudless day at noon?) Would it even be possible to measure solar radiance with an i1 pro? Even if it were possible, the sun's spectral distribution is very smooth, and would not challenge a spectroradiometer in the same way that a more spiky source would. Is it really that hard to find affordable LEDs with tolerances tighter than the i1 pros accepted tolerances?
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post #7 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 09:48 PM
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not to mention how would we align an i1Pro(1/2) and an reference meter with that in an controlled environment, let alone an enthusiast's..

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post #8 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrodefeld View Post

Couldn't another amateur with a recently certified reference meter be able to compare the two and tell me how accurate my meter is?

And if is is found to be inaccurate even if they could not actually fix the mechanical parts of the meter couldn't they just give me the values to plug in as offsets so I would get accurate readings?

If anyone can do anything like this I would pay you for the effort. Please let me know what my options are.

Thanks.
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post #9 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

not to mention how would we align an i1Pro(1/2) and an reference meter with that in an controlled environment, let alone an enthusiast's..


well you wouldn't need a reference meter, right? Assuming you have confidence in the SPD /chromaticity of your light source, that IS your "reference source".
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post #10 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 10:30 PM
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I'm glad Chad posted, he has a JETI 1211 and it's most likely he also has the software (for our purpose) you use.

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post #11 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

well you wouldn't need a reference meter, right? Assuming you have confidence in the SPD /chromaticity of your light source, that IS your "reference source".

which light source and in regards to our purpose of display calibration?

'confidence' is the key, isn't it?

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post #12 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 10:58 PM
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well that's why I was asking about the sun, or some LED's with tight tolerances.
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post #13 of 82 Old 10-24-2013, 11:07 PM
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This one for example. Might be interesting to request a quote just to get an idea.
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post #14 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Where are you located?

I'm in Southern California close to Santa Barbara.
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post #15 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
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This one for example. Might be interesting to request a quote just to get an idea.

No colorimetry specs. Worthless in that case. In any event, spec'ed or not, you'd still have to measure it with a reference instrument to know what your unit under test should be reporting. Otherwise, you're guessing.

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post #16 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 09:44 AM
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No colorimetry specs. Worthless in that case. In any event, spec'ed or not, you'd still have to measure it with a reference instrument to know what your unit under test should be reporting. Otherwise, you're guessing.

If you had colorimetry specs, and you trusted the source, why would you need a reference instrument?
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Find a DIYer than lives near to your place with a i1PRO/i1PRO2 that it's under a it's valid certificated period and compare the spectral response of the 2 meters.

There is no other way to find out, unless you send it to germany, to X-Rite's repair central to re-certificate your meter by tweaking it internally, only the factory can access it internally.

But the cost is very high for that service....

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post #18 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 12:26 PM
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I'm in Southern California close to Santa Barbara.
I sent you a PM.
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post #19 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 01:50 PM
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No colorimetry specs. Worthless in that case. In any event, spec'ed or not, you'd still have to measure it with a reference instrument to know what your unit under test should be reporting. Otherwise, you're guessing.

I've just sent a request for further information, including pricing. Will report back if and when I hear from them.

If it turns out that the colorimetry specs are included, and are stable and accurate, then I don't understand why you couldn't use a set of these to test your instruments. Why on earth would you need a reference instrument, when you have reference sources?
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post #20 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 02:53 PM
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I've just sent a request for further information, including pricing. Will report back if and when I hear from them.

If it turns out that the colorimetry specs are included, and are stable and accurate, then I don't understand why you couldn't use a set of these to test your instruments. Why on earth would you need a reference instrument, when you have reference sources?

It's a high luminance LED. Why would you expect it to be reference? Sure, it calls itself reference, but the only number it lists in the description is for luminance. It could very well be meant for use in testing light sensors in manufacturing, not for evaluation of video test equipment, where accurate colorimetry is also a requirement. Without detailed specs for xyY, and a manufacturer's guarantee that the item will meet those specs within so many percent, it's a crapshoot.

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post #21 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 03:03 PM
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It's a high luminance LED. Why would you expect it to be reference? Sure, it calls itself reference, but the only number it lists in the description is for luminance. It could very well be meant for use in testing light sensors in manufacturing, not for evaluation of video test equipment, where accurate colorimetry is also a requirement. Without detailed specs for xyY, and a manufacturer's guarantee that the item will meet those specs within so many percent, it's a crapshoot.


this is exactly why I said:

Quote:
If it turns out that the colorimetry specs are included, and are stable and accurate...
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post #22 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
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I've just sent a request for further information, including pricing. Will report back if and when I hear from them.

If it turns out that the colorimetry specs are included, and are stable and accurate, then I don't understand why you couldn't use a set of these to test your instruments. Why on earth would you need a reference instrument, when you have reference sources?

It's a high luminance LED. Why would you expect it to be reference? Sure, it calls itself reference, but the only number it lists in the description is for luminance. It could very well be meant for use in testing light sensors in manufacturing, not for evaluation of video test equipment, where accurate colorimetry is also a requirement. Without detailed specs for xyY, and a manufacturer's guarantee that the item will meet those specs within so many percent, it's a crapshoot.

+1

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365.02 nm; 404.66 nm; 435.84 nm; 546.07 nm; 696.54 nm;
706.72 nm; 727.29 nm; 738.40 nm; 763.51 nm; 772.40 nm;
794.82 nm; 811.53 nm; 826.45 nm; 852.14 nm; 912.30 nm.

comparing the results by using a Konica Minolta CS-2000 as a reference.

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post #23 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 09:12 PM
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Just heard back from them - the light sources do indeed come with SPD, chromaticity, etc. and the calibration of these units can be traced to NIST. I'm not going to share the pricing information until I've been given permission to do so, but these lights should serve as an appopriate reference source to calibrate equipment.

After all, how do you think high end lab grade spectroradiometers are calibrated in the first place?

So, assuming one could afford these units, and assuming that their SPDs remain consistent over the 100 hours of operation they claim, one could conceivably do their own calibration check without the need of a reference instrument.

I have yet to hear from anyone in this thread why the above statement is not true.
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post #24 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
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Just heard back from them - the light sources do indeed come with SPD, chromaticity, etc. and the calibration of these units can be traced to NIST. I'm not going to share the pricing information until I've been given permission to do so, but these lights should serve as an appopriate reference source to calibrate equipment.

After all, how do you think high end lab grade spectroradiometers are calibrated in the first place?

So, assuming one could afford these units, and assuming that their SPDs remain consistent over the 100 hours of operation they claim, one could conceivably do their own calibration check without the need of a reference instrument.

I have yet to hear from anyone in this thread why the above statement is not true.

High grade lab spectros are usually calibrated using an integrating sphere.

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post #25 of 82 Old 10-25-2013, 10:28 PM
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Yes, if you have access to a full sized integrating sphere, then that's great. From what I'm told by the company, these LEDs are actually used to calibrate integrating spheres. I'm guessing this is this is for adjusting the port area sizes for measurements of luminous flux?

I suppose there's a chicken and egg situation here - what is the ultimate colorimetric reference - is it the source, or the spectro...

my point is - if these leds are what they claim to be, then I see no reason why they couldn't serve as a calibration reference for spectro/colorimeter.

I actually found a DIY integrating sphere that looked pretty cool, though I wouldn't trust it over one that had proper baffles and a high end diffusing surface.

Suppose you did trust the reference source, and the SPD is invariant over measuring angles. Would a pitch black room suffice?
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post #26 of 82 Old 10-26-2013, 12:33 AM
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btw, here is the original reply I got from them:

Thank you very much your inquiry; IPR-DES4 Reference Standard LEDs come with NIST tracable calibration for spectral power distribution, chromaticity, total power and intensity. They are used for calibrating spectroradiometers, integrating spheres, colorimeters. You can have them in any color.

Price of each IPR-DES4 HB LED is $4500, including calibration, power controller, leads. Delivery time after ordering 4-6 weeks.
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post #27 of 82 Old 10-26-2013, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

btw, here is the original reply I got from them:

Thank you very much your inquiry; IPR-DES4 Reference Standard LEDs come with NIST tracable calibration for spectral power distribution, chromaticity, total power and intensity. They are used for calibrating spectroradiometers, integrating spheres, colorimeters. You can have them in any color.

Price of each IPR-DES4 HB LED is $4500, including calibration, power controller, leads. Delivery time after ordering 4-6 weeks.

Nice Info, but it's beyond to that the user asked, all your reply's here are useless for him, you provide zero help to the user question with the used i1PRO.

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post #28 of 82 Old 10-26-2013, 01:06 AM
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Nice Info, but it's beyond to that the user asked, all your reply's here are useless for him, you provide zero help to the user question with the used i1PRO.

I went out of my way to provide an idea that hadn't been suggested, actually contact the company and ask for a quote (which may be of value to others reading this thread), engage in an interesting theoretical discussion that might be of interest to others, and you think it appropriate to criticize me because it didn't end up helping him??

I could see how this would be a valid criticism had I charged him for any help, or had I criticized other valid suggestions.

I don't understand the purpose of your post.
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post #29 of 82 Old 10-26-2013, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Nice Info, but it's beyond to that the user asked, all your reply's here are useless for him, you provide zero help to the user question with the used i1PRO.

I went out of my way to provide an idea that hadn't been suggested, actually contact the company and ask for a quote (which may be of value to others reading this thread), engage in an interesting theoretical discussion that might be of interest to others, and you think it appropriate to criticize me because it didn't end up helping him??

I could see how this would be a valid criticism had I charged him for any help, or had I criticized other valid suggestions.

I don't understand the purpose of your post.

The problem with your currect posts here is that you suggested a solution that you was sure about it's successfull results, but the same time you had no actual information about you the cost and the way that someone can try this at home.

If you like you can open a new thread to discus that lamp solution you found for us to stop sending our meters to X-Rite's Labs anymore, to find out a cheaper lamp etc.

But you can write whatever you want, it's a public forum. wink.gif I'm not here to judge you.

Personally I refer to inform with things i know, not with imaginary things what might work.

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post #30 of 82 Old 10-26-2013, 01:30 AM
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Goodnight Ted, I have no wish to further engage you in this discussion.
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