Issue with calibrating Panasonic ST60 and skin tones - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 10:50 AM
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Thank you!
Regarding gamma it depends on what value you calibrate. Using 22% apl patterns will yeld a closer to 2.35 gamma and using 4% will be closer to 2.3 and that's how it's been calibrated. I don't usually alter the natural response of the screen. The vt and st (because I had that too) usually starts form a 2.1 value at 10% white and goes towards 2.3 at higher ire with normal windows and a 2.4 gamma value in the settings.
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post #152 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 11:58 AM
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Here are the slides: Grey APL Slides.zip
EDIT:
Updated with my improved APL squares; These are 16-235 APL squares which have nothing above, below or to the sides of the center square.
EDIT2: Please use this new zip because the last had some issues with actual values.


There are two version 0-255 & 16-235.
You'll probably already know what to do with them & HDMI range settings in the TV (I hope ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei_VVB
The vt and st usually starts form a 2.1 value at 10% white and goes towards 2.3 at higher ire with normal windows and a 2.4 gamma value in the settings.
You are right, I noticed this behavior too.
BUT, try to measure these APL windows on top of a typical movie scene (or grey background) and you'll get a higher gamma.

Question, Does your greyscale shifts towards greenish tint when calibrating with the windows or APL that come with the AVS709HD disc?
Just lower your saturation to 0% to see if the movie image is actually neutral grey and not greenish compared to a calibrated LCD.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 08-19-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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post #153 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 12:44 PM
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Thanks for the patterns!
I'll tell you what I've found and know about 60 series.
First, my experience witn one 50st60 and two 50vt60 wasn't too good. All of them had a red blob in the center no matter what setting of color or calibration or anything. They had also terrible red-tinted line bleed. All of that I'm sure influenced the calibration.
That's the reason now I have a 55vt60 which is much more stable and less influenced by the type of the patterns (size and apl).
It is true that the 50'models showed that behavior and were tinted in wb when using normal windows.
Regarding AVSHD with all due respect for the developers I don't like their apl patterns. I would use instead Mascior's or GCD which have diffrent windows sizes on a full grey 22% APL background. Hope that helps! Also my tv's are European models but some says there are not too much differences this year.
About gamma...it is known that apl patterns will yield a higher gamma that's why I said that I fallow the "natural" response of the panel when calibrating without major adjustments in gamma settings.

Last edited by Andrei_VVB; 08-18-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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post #154 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei_VVB View Post
All of them had a red blob in the center no matter what setting of color or calibration or anything.
Sounds like a low VSUS problem on all the 50" pannys you had.

Quote:
About gamma...it is known that apl patterns will yield a higher gamma that's why I said that I follow the "natural" response of the panel when calibrating without major adjustments in gamma settings.
Whats looks "Natural" with the calibration patterns and the resulting graph you see in your calibration software, might look completely off with real content.

This thread is about tinted skin tones after what appears to be a perfect calibration, now why is that?
Simple, the APL of typical content is different than the APL of the calibration windows.

My goal was to find the sweet spot where neutral greyscale and ABL meet in typical content and calibrate there.

Last edited by James Freeman; 08-18-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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post #155 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 01:19 PM
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The V-sus adjustment from low to high didn't cure this problem. It was well spread on the avforums but that's a different discussion.
Regarding patterns, I had used all kind of them(true that not with 50% background) and the results were quite different on the 50" models for wb but not on this 55". I'll give them a try just to see what are the differences.
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post #156 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 03:10 PM
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My inexperienced but educated opinion is that you are correct. I was looking for a high apl window patterns some time ago after coming to the same conclusion. Having never found any and without knowledge of making some I gave up....so many thanks.

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post #157 of 162 Old 08-18-2014, 11:54 PM
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I have updated the ZIP in post #152 with my version of 16-235 APL squares.
It has 70 grey background and nothing above or below nor to the sides of the central square, which is important because of how plasma creates the image.

These should be played using a HTPC with 0-255 HDMI output, while the TV should be set to Standard (16-235).
Maybe someone can make a standard 16-235 video files (like AVS709) from these so that they can be easily played with any standalone player?

Looks like so:
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Last edited by James Freeman; 08-19-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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post #158 of 162 Old 08-19-2014, 05:02 AM
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Any chance that you could add peak white (254) to your 16-235 images?
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post #159 of 162 Old 08-19-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post
Any chance that you could add peak white (254) to your 16-235 images?
DONE.
Now there are only a 16-235 slides.

@ Andrei_VVB, everybody.
Make sure you download the new zip file because the last one had a little different grey values, this one is correct.
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post #160 of 162 Old 08-19-2014, 08:15 PM
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I dont suppose you have the patterns in 5% steps for 21pt? If not would you accept just one more request? And this is just a thought but maybe a more detailed tutorial on how you made them. It would be fun to play around with and I think it would benefit future readers....anyway thanks for sharing.

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post #161 of 162 Old 08-19-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodixe View Post
I dont suppose you have the patterns in 5% steps for 21pt? If not would you accept just one more request? And this is just a thought but maybe a more detailed tutorial on how you made them. It would be fun to play around with and I think it would benefit future readers....anyway thanks for sharing.
To create 5% pattern I first would have to invent it, meaning to think of a new square position, it shouldn't be hard but it would take several hours of my time.

You can make them yourself.

235-16 = 220 steps.
220/10 = 22 (Each step is 22 RGB clicks lower than the previous).

110% = 255
100% = 235-22 = 213
90% = 213-22 = 191
80% = 191-22 = 169
.
.
.
10% = 37

AVS709HD uses exactly the same numbers.
The place of the square that goes to the center should be replaced with 16 (black) square to maintain APL.

Hope its clear.


BTW I calibrate colors with the MPC-HC player in the center of the APL slide.
This gave me beautiful and accurate color, while maintaining the APL of the calibrated greyscale.
I think its the correct way to calibrate color, the APL of the greyscale should not change during color calibration.
* When I actually calibrate I remove the media player frame you can see in the image, this was just to show how I calibrate using a HTPC without slides.

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post #162 of 162 Old 08-21-2014, 11:18 PM
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Thank you...I will play when I get time, it shouldn't be too hard (we are the people who decided to self teach video calibration after all lol)
Edit: I read the instructions again and the info was really helpful thanks.
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Last edited by nodixe; 08-22-2014 at 12:17 AM. Reason: Re-read instructions...helps alot
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