Completely unsure what to do with Spears and Munsil BR disc - AVS Forum
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I'm sure I'll sound like an idiot but I could use some help. I used to have an Ovation DVD but can't find it any more. I bought a S&M BR and I have no idea what the chuck to do. It shows a bunch of test patterns and colors but there is no audio to accompany it or say something like adjust it to the point where you can no longer see the last bar - just a bunch of patterns. I tried pressing the audio button but it doesn't have other tracks. It does play music while showing pictures of fields.

Am I supposed to have another device that calibrates based on those patterns or am I supposed to instinctively know how to adjust based on those color bars and darkening bars? If so I'd like to know about what device to get. If not is there a disc that tells me how to adjust the colors and contrast etc. ? I'm reading the little booklet that came with it and it isn't very explanatory. It mentions blue filters - it didn't come with any slides/color strips like the Avia disc did. Is that what they mean by filters or is there a device to buy?
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:04 PM
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I haven't used the disc yet, but this seems like a good place to start:
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/2nd-edition-articles/

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Old 12-05-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hello,

I'm sure I'll sound like an idiot but I could use some help. I used to have an Ovation DVD but can't find it any more. I bought a S&M BR and I have no idea what the chuck to do. It shows a bunch of test patterns and colors but there is no audio to accompany it or say something like adjust it to the point where you can no longer see the last bar - just a bunch of patterns. I tried pressing the audio button but it doesn't have other tracks. It does play music while showing pictures of fields.

Am I supposed to have another device that calibrates based on those patterns or am I supposed to instinctively know how to adjust based on those color bars and darkening bars? If so I'd like to know about what device to get. If not is there a disc that tells me how to adjust the colors and contrast etc. ? I'm reading the little booklet that came with it and it isn't very explanatory. It mentions blue filters - it didn't come with any slides/color strips like the Avia disc did. Is that what they mean by filters or is there a device to buy?

Hello, use you UP button from your Blu-Ray Remote Control to display to you the help for each pattern, it will show you example pictures of how the correct setting will look line for each pattern also.

More details can be found here.

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Old 12-05-2013, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks - I got through using what I could of it just a few minutes ago (I have the 1st BR not the 2nd edition). They really should have had someone who hadn't written the thing proof it as I'm sure it made sense in the head of the person who wrote it. It should have come with a blue filter as not all TVs can turn on and off colors. It did help a lot with the brightness setting.
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:57 PM
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Using a blue filter to set color/tint controls rarely works - when you read proper instructions for this procedure, at the end of the "adjustment" then will tell you to view a variety of content and if it doesn't look right, to adjust by eye until the images do look right. So if you're going to adjust by eye, why bother with the blue filter? It only works if the blue phosphor or filter are exact matches for the blue filter and that's pretty miraculous if it ever happens. Furthermore, filters change over time and "drift" so blue filters that are more than a few years old are suspect and may not be useful even if they did match the blue spectrum of the display very well when the filter was new.

The only things you can REALLY set with a test/setup disc with any confidence of being accurate are black level and sharpness. Other patterns may be useful for evaluating performance of a display, but getting SETTINGS right really requires a meter and calibration software so you aren't GUESSING that your settings are good. As it is, and there's nothing you or anybody else can do about this, you CANNOT determine the right setting for the Contrast control (100% white) with a test/setup disc. All you can do is determine whether the TV clips white or not, and if it does clip white, what the highest setting you could use would be where white is not clipped. But the highest possible setting for Contrast is not likely to be the RIGHT setting for the Contrast control. You want 30-40 fL for 100% white for viewing in a dark room. You cannot tell from looking at a 100% white pattern whether it is 10 fL or 60 f - without a meter, you are just guessing. And discs won't help you make your red, green, and blue primaries or cyan, magenta, and yellow complimentary colors more accurate. But a meter can help you with that if the TV has controls that allow you to adjust those colors (and if the controls in the TV actually work, sometimes they don't).

You may find a thread here on AVS that discusses how to use the first version of the S & M disc. There is a VERY large thread where people discuss using Version 2 of the S & M disc. I have no idea whether something similar exists for the first disc but you may find something by searching for Spears & Munsil and see what comes up.

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Old 12-06-2013, 07:26 PM
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You want 30-40 fL for 100% white for viewing in a dark room.

That really hurts in a dark room even though I don't have the lights out. Especially 40. It is brutal.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:52 PM
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If that's the case there are one or more of the following issues:

- Your irises don't work normally

- You are sitting too far from the TV causing you to see too much dark area around the TV and not enough of the image area

- You aren't measuring white correctly

- You need a bias light

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Old 12-07-2013, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

You want 30-40 fL for 100% white for viewing in a dark room.

That really hurts in a dark room even though I don't have the lights out. Especially 40. It is brutal.

The recommendation for peak output is coming from published documents but it's for studio monitors that the viewer is sitting at the recommended viewing distance.

In HT enviroment, things are complicated, it has to do with viewing distance/screen size/ room conditions/ walls color, and display technology.

There is no rule of what pattern size you have to measure for the plasma peak white, 6.5/10/18% Sized window?

For Plasma you don't have to follow this rule since a 10% sized window will give you 120cd/m2 , 6.5% will give you ~140cd/2, 18% will give you ~100%, but with the same setting the full field will measure ~50cd/2 or lower.
For example Cinetal was recommending 25% sized Windows for Panasonic Plasmas to their DAVIO workflow documents.

As far as I know, the post production monitors/projectors are using field field patterns to set peak white.

Plasma is excluding from this rule, try to get the max outputfrom your plasma without any color channel clipping and watch some movies to see if it hearts your eyes. You will have the max contrast which mean more image 'pop'.

Peak output/ Contrast Ratio of Plasmas is floating... it was to do with contents APL, 1.77:1 or 2.35:1 aspect ratio, generally you will get better contrast by viewing a 1.77:1 movie from a 2.35:1 movie... due to our known plasma design.

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Old 12-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

If that's the case there are one or more of the following issues:

- Your irises don't work normally

- You are sitting too far from the TV causing you to see too much dark area around the TV and not enough of the image area

- You aren't measuring white correctly

- You need a bias light

None of those were the problem. Now remembering by looking at my charts, 30ftL is comfortable but… it's not comfortable with 3000:1 contrast ratio. As the other TV's set to 30ftL, theirs are 509:1 and 1234:1. It's very comfortable to watch for hours in a fairly low lit room. Unlike the TV with 3000:1 contrast ratio. For it to be comfortable even with bias lighting set to the correct level and sitting 6 - 8ft away from the screen, 23ftL felt the same as 30ftL. As the wall is grey where that TV is.

The one thats 1234:1 sits in between black tower units with no eyestrain.
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