Jeti 1201 test results - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 137 Old 12-16-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Yep, I've notices that my i1pro2 is much more sensitive to the cable and connections that all my i1pro Rev A-D's.

Sometimes is goes through the motions of doing a reflective measurement and produces garbage results.

As an electronics engineer, I can't help but think "they should have better power regulators in the instrument...."
Graeme, your i1 pro REV D is used with original usb cable or another one ?
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post #62 of 137 Old 12-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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Here is a simple thing to try with a 1201 setup: most lap-tops are not connected to ground (obviously on battery, but surprisingly even on ac). So, if noise pick-up is the problem, establishing a connection to ground may help. You can do this very simply by connecting the lap-top to the plasma tv using an HDMI cable. Plasma tv's are almost always grounded through their ac power cables, so this will connect the 1201 to ground via the USB.
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post #63 of 137 Old 12-16-2013, 03:14 PM
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subraman

Would that still work if you're using a different input...you know, the one with the signal generator attached.

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post #64 of 137 Old 12-16-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realzven View Post

Graeme, your i1 pro REV D is used with original usb cable or another one ?

I thought we were discussing the i1pro2 (ie. Rev E) ?

My i1pro Rev D works pretty reliably with any cable, including the one supplied with it.
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post #65 of 137 Old 12-16-2013, 03:58 PM
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Thanks graeme wink.gif
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post #66 of 137 Old 12-18-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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KimberKable-USBBBUS.zip 2k .zip file Got the Idea from Ted. cool.gif

Used a Kimber Kable - USB B BUS I just got from Audio Advisor for my I1Pro 2.

Ran WRGB (see attachment) using port 3 (this was thought to be a bad port by Jeti co.) in my Dell. Used LS to log and the Lumagen (latest update) 2041 as a pattern generator.

You can compare these test results with the new Kimber Kable - USB B BUS, too the OP test results I made with the standard cable that came with the I1Pro 2. .
Also you may want to compare these test results to Chad's results from his 1211.

As I told Jeti (friendly feedback) that there tri pod and cable where not worth including in there box with the 1201. They where not happy about this "friendly feedback" and basically (not in these exact words) told me to eat something and bark at the moon eek.gif, ie talk to Tom not them anymore. Anyway that's why I tried the USB B cable in the 1201 from my I1Pro 2, didn't have the Kimber Kable then.

ss
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post #67 of 137 Old 12-18-2013, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Got the Idea from Ted. cool.gif

Used a Kimber Kable - USB B BUS I just got from Audio Advisor for my I1Pro 2.

Ran WRGB (see attachment) using port 3 (this was thought to be a bad port by Jeti co.) in my Dell. Used LS to log and the Lumagen (latest update) 2041 as a pattern generator.

You can compare these test results with the new Kimber Kable - USB B BUS, too the OP test results I made with the standard cable that came with the I1Pro 2. .
Also you may want to compare these test results to Chad's results from his 1211.

As I told Jeti (friendly feedback) that there tri pod and cable where not worth including in there box with the 1201. They where not happy about this "friendly feedback" and basically (not in these exact words) told me to eat something and bark at the moon eek.gif, ie talk to Tom not them anymore. Anyway that's why I tried the USB B cable in the 1201 from my I1Pro 2, didn't have the Kimber Kable then.

ss

SS, Add the attachment please.

PS: New Cables need burn-in for ~100 hours, use your Kimber Kable USB to an external hard drive connecTED for a week and then re-measure again with your i1PRO2.

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post #68 of 137 Old 12-18-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, Add the attachment please.

PS: New Cables need burn-in for ~100 hours, use your Kimber Kable USB to an external hard drive connecTED for a week and then re-measure again with your i1PRO2.

Ted, look now you should see the "connecTED" Zip.smile.gif

You may be right, but in any case unless Jeti was sending me used meters and cables calling them new. I used the "new" cable that was supplied by Jeti in the 1201 case when I took the measurements that I posted in the op..
I did try and use my used cable from for my I1Pro 2 meter that was supplied by x-rite, for the "new" 1201. Resaults where the same as with the "new" cable from Jeti..

ss
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post #69 of 137 Old 12-18-2013, 11:06 AM
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I have to agree with Graeme - the i1 Pro 2 does seem to suffer badly with USB associated problems, and is very temperamental with respect to the cable used.

We've been trying to track down a 'too_few_args...’ error that happens with some i1 Pro 2 probes, but not others.
Has anyone else seen this problem?

We are not sure what causes this error, or if it is USB related, but it seems to happen with probes that are more susceptible to USB cable relates issues.

Steve

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post #70 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve just compare my op tests and the test I just ran with this new cable, it tells me its the cable. Not the USB port but the cable, of course it the meter could have a better filter to filter out this type of noise then the cable would probably not be the issue.

Here are some Red readings I just took using my latest LUT (4913, results are posted on LS thread.). The meter is my I1Pro 2 with the 3rd party cable.



There is only a .0003 difference between the highest reading and the lowest reading.

Now compare the readings done by Jeti on there 42" plasma using a new 1201. There is a high of 6390 and a low of 6367 for Red x, .0013 difference.

How can the I1Pro 2 with the 3rd party cable best the Jeti 1201 by that much.

ss
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post #71 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 11:53 AM
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SS, my friend i'm a bit confused by reading your posts.

Do you have at your place an another JETI 1201 right now? or you are testing your i1PRO2 comparing the results of the X-Rite's Stock Cable vs. the Kimber Kable one that i suggested for better performance and you bought?

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post #72 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, my friend i'm a bit confused by reading your posts.

Do you have at your place an another JETI 1201 right now? or you are testing your i1PRO2 comparing the results of the X-Rite's Stock Cable vs. the Kimber Kable one that i suggested for better performance and you bought?

Thanks :

ConnecTEDDD, my pal.

No I don't have the Jeti 1201, after having two 1201's that where not able to meet Jeti's posted max high specs I got a refund,
I am comparing the I1Pro 2 with the Kimber Kable to both the 1201 and the I1Pro 2 with standard cable.

Red was the biggest problem I saw with the two 1201 and my I1Pro 2 with standard cable.

btw, I had the Kimber Kable hooked up to my PC's USB port and a WD external HD for about 24 hours, then ran a 4913 profile and the above measurements on that LUT.

I think you know I use the I1Pro 2 to profile the K10-A.

ss
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post #73 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, my friend i'm a bit confused by reading your posts.

Do you have at your place an another JETI 1201 right now? or you are testing your i1PRO2 comparing the results of the X-Rite's Stock Cable vs. the Kimber Kable one that i suggested for better performance and you bought?

Thanks :

ConnecTEDDD, my pal.

No I don't have the Jeti 1201, after having two 1201's that where not able to meet Jeti's posted max high specs I got a refund,
I am comparing the I1Pro 2 with the Kimber Kable to both the 1201 and the I1Pro 2 with standard cable.

Red was the biggest problem I saw with the two 1201 and my I1Pro 2 with standard cable.

ss

SS my friend, remove the ferrite noise reduction beads that are coming attached with the cable, during my testing, without the ferrites attached I had better performance on repeatibility wink.gif

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post #74 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS my friend, remove the ferrite noise reduction beads that are coming attached with the cable, during my testing, without the ferrites attached I had better performance on repeatibility wink.gif

ConnecTEDDD, my pal.

Did you look at the numbers from my last two repeatibility test.??

The repeatibility is better with my I1Pro2 than Chad's test on a GT60 using his Jeti 1211.
Also much better than the Jeti 1201 and even the I1Pro2 with the standard cord.

ss
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post #75 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS my friend, remove the ferrite noise reduction beads that are coming attached with the cable, during my testing, without the ferrites attached I had better performance on repeatibility wink.gif

ConnecTEDDD, my pal.

Did you look at the numbers from my last two repeatibility test.??

The repeatibility is better with my I1Pro2 than Chad's test on a GT60 using his Jeti 1211.
Also much better than the Jeti 1201 and even the I1Pro2 with the standard cord.

ss

I believe the i1PRO2 is filtering out or averaging internally the data's you see or can't detect small changes because of it's limited spectral resolution/total number of sensors, JETI is by far more sensitive as we all know and it detects Plasma's non/fixed pixel status changes. An engineer can give us some better explanation about this....

Graeme had both meters for some time, he can give us some deeper analysis if he like to help. wink.gif

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post #76 of 137 Old 12-19-2013, 03:52 PM
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It is interesting when people start looking at any part of their measurement chain how items they trust can show problems.
The real question when you detect an issue such as noise related problems is what relevance does it hold to what you are measuring and then can you do anything about it.

This is why in science many have difficulty with absolutes, because in reality 100% certainty is very difficult to obtain if not impossible. This is because there is always error, error in the tools, error in the method, chaos in reality.

The interesting thing about high end tools, is they can be highly sensitive to error as much as good readings. The really important part is to notice it and then not ignore it.
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post #77 of 137 Old 12-27-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS my friend, remove the ferrite noise reduction beads that are coming attached with the cable, during my testing, without the ferrites attached I had better performance on repeatibility wink.gif

Hello Ted,

Here are some measurements after removing the ferrite's, using the I1Pro 2.

You can compare the with ferrite date 12/19/13 to the after ferrite date 12/27/13. Also note that the readings with the 8xx time stamp had no extra delay, the readings with the 9xx time stamp have a extra delay of 1 sec.
Red.csv 7k .csv file

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File Type: csv Red.csv (6.8 KB, 18 views)
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post #78 of 137 Old 01-06-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS my friend, remove the ferrite noise reduction beads that are coming attached with the cable, during my testing, without the ferrites attached I had better performance on repeatibility wink.gif

Hello Ted,

Here are some measurements after removing the ferrite's, using the I1Pro 2.

SS my friend, the following devices are recommended for hi-end meters:

AQVOX USB Low-Noise 5V Isolated Linear Power Supply

Vaunix Lab Brick Test Equipments - High Power 4-Port USB Hub (Lab Grade)
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post #79 of 137 Old 01-06-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS my friend, the following devices are recommended for hi-end meters:

AQVOX USB Low-Noise 5V Isolated Linear Power Supply

Vaunix Lab Brick Test Equipments - High Power 4-Port USB Hub (Lab Grade)

Ted my Pal.

I don't think the Intel 335 solid state hard drive or the battery powered Laptop is the problem.

Also Jeti asked me if I was using a USB Hub, they thought using a Hub was a bad idea and maybe if I was using a Hub that could have caused the problem.

In any case the Jeti 1201 should not be considered a sole meter solution for calibrating even a standard calibration. It would seem only a 1211 is fine for a standard 10 Pt GS, 6 Pt CMS/Gamut calibration because of its refresh rate detection and synchronization the 1211 uses. However if you are going to do a large Profile/LUT Cube using a 1211, the time factor would be unworkable for a pro calibrator's time limit.
So to reduce the time factor to make this type of calibration workable for a pro calibrator, they would need a Klein K10-A and use the Jeti 1211 for the sole purpose of making a profile for the K10-A on the display they are calibrating.

ss
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post #80 of 137 Old 01-28-2014, 08:37 PM
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FWIW, I tested the 1201 on a 8G Kuro (428XG) with the VideoForge as a pattern source (10% window, 1080p/24). The 1201 was off a powered USB hub. Measurements were done from the Jeti Lival software. If I get the chance I will test other plasmas.
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post #81 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 02:16 AM
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@SS and ConnecTEDDD Following this with great attention but it looks you may be overthinking this with regards to the i1 pro 2 (no disrespect at all intented).
I'm assuming you at least use a notebook with USB2.0 ports?

The power requirements of an i1 pro 2 are much lower than what USB2.0 can deliver (let alone what USB3.0 can deliver). I can deduct this from the fact it only requires a usb 1.1 interface according to the specification sheet. For people with a Jeti concrerned with power issues, check the power requirement. Not all USB ports can deliver what they should according to the specifications and some ports on laptops share their power:

USB 1.0 - - - 150 mA 5 V 0.75 W
USB 2.0 - - - 500 mA 5 V 2.5 W
USB 3.0 - - - 900 mA 5 V 4.5 W

Post 58 by Ted (hope you don't mind the abbreviation) shows to me that the cable does not matter? You seem to think it does? All figures seem to be well with the repeatibility of the i1 pro 2.

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post #82 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

@SS and ConnecTEDDD Following this with great attention but it looks you may be overthinking this with regards to the i1 pro 2 (no disrespect at all intented).
I'm assuming you at least use a notebook with USB2.0 ports?

The power requirements of an i1 pro 2 are much lower than what USB2.0 can deliver (let alone what USB3.0 can deliver). I can deduct this from the fact it only requires a usb 1.1 interface according to the specification sheet. For people with a Jeti concrerned with power issues, check the power requirement. Not all USB ports can deliver what they should according to the specifications and some ports on laptops share their power:

USB 1.0 - - - 150 mA 5 V 0.75 W
USB 2.0 - - - 500 mA 5 V 2.5 W
USB 3.0 - - - 900 mA 5 V 4.5 W

Post 58 by Ted (hope you don't mind the abbreviation) shows to me that the cable does not matter? You seem to think it does? All figures seem to be well with the repeatibility of the i1 pro 2.

Another thing is that most USB-ports are limited to 500mV output and other USB-devices connected to the computer or USB-hub are affecting the power-quality. External USB-Harddisks without own powersupply are affecting the computers internal powersupply and all other USB-ports negative.

For USB Cables, another degrading fact is that the noisy powerlines are affecting the two USB-datalines. Because non of the power- or datalines are shielded. A better conductor/shielding cable can improve the performance.

Sources of disturbances (ripple & noise) inside a computer:

1. Backlight of computer monitors: The necessary high voltage of approx. 900 V for LCD/TFT monitors is generated by inverters which produce ripple and noise.

2. Hard disks (internal + external): The actuators of the recording/reading heads produce interference voltage with each positioning or stop move.

3. Clock generators and chips like e.g. the CPU, northbridge, RAM or graphics adapter cause disturbances and noise.

4. Power supplies of notebooks and desktop PCs are not designed for lowest interference voltage and noise, since this is extra costs...

I have runned a similar test before some years, using i1PRO1, the results were similar with my i1PRO2 results.... better performance...but the changes are beyond our perception....

X-Rite i1PRO USB Cable Performance Test

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post #83 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 02:46 AM
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Unless I am reading your results incorrectly, I see nothing suspicious that can be blamed on the cable. I can transfer large files and hash verify them over USB hard drives and not have a single one not be bit perfect. Not trying to argue (well a bit smile.gif) but to me your test proves the cable does not matter as long as it is not too long and properly seated.

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post #84 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 03:19 AM
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i1PRO1 Test

i1_PRO_USB_Cables_Test.jpg


i1PRO2 Test

USB_Cable_01.png





Look, I'm not running a certified lab, I don't have testing equipment to provide you a USB Cable Eye Diagram Comparison about the differencies of the cable performance, I just runned simple measurement tests that anyone can run at home.

...And both tests showed better repeatabity using a better quality cable.

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post #85 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

@SS and ConnecTEDDD Following this with great attention but it looks you may be overthinking this with regards to the i1 pro 2 (no disrespect at all intented).
I'm assuming you at least use a notebook with USB2.0 ports?

The power requirements of an i1 pro 2 are much lower than what USB2.0 can deliver (let alone what USB3.0 can deliver). I can deduct this from the fact it only requires a usb 1.1 interface according to the specification sheet. For people with a Jeti concrerned with power issues, check the power requirement. Not all USB ports can deliver what they should according to the specifications and some ports on laptops share their power:

USB 1.0 - - - 150 mA 5 V 0.75 W
USB 2.0 - - - 500 mA 5 V 2.5 W
USB 3.0 - - - 900 mA 5 V 4.5 W

Post 58 by Ted (hope you don't mind the abbreviation) shows to me that the cable does not matter? You seem to think it does? All figures seem to be well with the repeatibility of the i1 pro 2.


For the sake of discussion, how do we know what the voltage and the level of interference is on our laptops?

Even if you get a consistent reading, it might be consistently wrong.

It's be interesting to use the same meter or spectro on a well built desktop computer containing a quality power supply to see if the net readings are any different.

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post #86 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 04:30 AM
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Without expensive equipment (as Ted notes) it is impossible to really see what interference is going on. Voltage can be checked easily with a hacked USB-cable and in some other ways. Checking it under load is more difficult and I honestly never attemped that.

Now, I use a portable hard drive (not flash memory, a real magnetic platter based hard drive) to assess wether the power is sufficient. Some laptops (2 Dells: could be just chance) cannot get my drive to spin up. Most however, can.
Hard drives need a fair bit of start up current and a fair bit of juice to do their thing. If you can get one that tasks the limit of the USB-port power and it works, it is most likely capable of powering the I1 pro 2 with ease. Even more so since it only requires a USB1.1 port.

I would say using a desktop may be a worse idea than just a quality laptop. The switching power supply can cause interference whereas a laptop is powered on battery.

edit: perhaps this can provide an extra layer of certainty and some clearer data at a reasonable price http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/portpilot-inline-usb-power-analyzer

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post #87 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 06:56 AM
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What is the mA rating for your drive (usually found on the back)? Ideally you'd want it close to 500. One problem with these USB-testers is resolution (don't know whether there are others).
If there are a lot of fluctations in voltage, it will easily escape detection and an issue will remain unnoticed. Bit like the optical resolution of the i1 pro 2 vs the Jeti when capturing the spectracal distribution. If there is a problem, just copying a lot of files to a portable hard drive will reveal it. There are simple tools available to hash them and see whether they've arrived bit perfect.

With all respects to testing, which is fun, I do not think the i1 pro2 comes close to taxing the USB-port in a way that a severe voltage drop will occur. If there is an issue, it will be with a flaky driver or a faulty port/cable and no device will work properly.

For once I'm not obsessing about this detail:)

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post #88 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post

...snip...

Hard drives need a fair bit of start up current and a fair bit of juice to do their thing. If you can get one that tasks the limit of the USB-port power and it works, it is most likely capable of powering the I1 pro 2 with ease. Even more so since it only requires a USB1.1 port.

According to this from Xrite, the i1pro2 needs USB 2.0

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post #89 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 08:56 AM
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Think you forgot the link? I got it from the online user manual. Assumed it was right

take a look here http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1912&Action=Specifications
scroll down to INTERFACE, DIMENSIONS AND WEIGHT.

Perhaps X-rite forgot to update the website:-)

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post #90 of 137 Old 01-29-2014, 09:18 AM
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Ooops,

Should somebody tell XRite that on this page they say the i1pro2 needs USB 1.1 http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1912&Action=support&SupportID=5605

and on this page it says that it needs USB 2.0 http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=1912&Action=support&SupportID=5605

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