Jeti 1201 test results - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 09:19 AM
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i can semi add to this, though its not an exact i1pro vs jeti comparison. What you see below is a colorchecker screenshot of my custom built profile with my c6 meter against my i1d3pro(chromapure's version which offsets are built against a jeti). Also below is a screenshot of the same colorchecker, same patterns, proper offset, but taken with my new i1pro.
Clearly you can see that the i1 pro measures differently with some colors, but others colors are really close.

custom c6 profile against chromapure i1d3pro




i1 pro measurements
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post #122 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Hello, Check @ bold letters above is my reply.

I ask about more readings from multiple instruments to increase the sample size. You have an interesting result but the only real conclusion is the two tested meters have a 2 dE difference. A larger sample size will show if this result is normal or an outlier, and would probably set a trend. Well understood that the 1211 is an expensive tool and there aren't several at your disposal to satisfy the curiosity of some guy on the internet, but the question needed to be asked. The assumption exists that the 1211 is the reference based on cost, age, and reputation (I would also agree with this here but with that said I don't see any hard proof), and earlier in this thread it was shown in some circumstances the 1201 performed less than expected.

I suppose my question is how do we prove the reference meter is actually the reference in all circumstances?

Thanks for your reply.
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post #123 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by plasma_fan View Post

I suppose my question is how do we prove the reference meter is actually the reference in all circumstances?




You don't need a large number of samples for certified meters, since all certified meters have very low devations and virtually the same performance.

You need large meter samples for meter that are not coming with certificate....

The certifications of each meter proofs that is reference grade, for JETI the whole process includes:

- intake measuring check

- mechanical and optical alignment test

- wavelength check and possibly recalibration (low pressure discharge lamps HgAr, Cd, software JETI FitTool)

- sensitivity recalibration (included in software JETI LiVal, but password protected)

Spectral Radiance with OL 455 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST)
Spectral Irradiance with OL 200/ UV 40 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST) → Set up see below
Spectral Radiant flux with Wi40/G (Osram, traceable to PTB)

- automatic test measurements (3 times on 20 different spectra) to check device stability, device intercomparability and comparability to a reference unit (CS-2000 of Konica Minolta)
issuing of the calibration certificate (example).

As for i1PRO it's certification has to do only by measing some BCA tiles at Reflectance Mode, but to measure displays it's working at Emissive Mode and at i1PRO's certification doesn't say anything about it's accurancy in Emissive mode, you have only certification that is valid for measuring reflective light (printing/paper industry).


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post #124 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Spectral Radiance with OL 455 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST)
Spectral Irradiance with OL 200/ UV 40 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST) → Set up see below
Spectral Radiant flux with Wi40/G (Osram, traceable to PTB)

I believe the Radiant flux calibration is only for the Specbios 1311 and 1301. Spectroradiometers don't measure radiant flux, you need an integrating sphere for that.


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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

As for i1PRO it's certification has to do only by measing some BCA tiles at Reflectance Mode, but to measure displays it's working at Emissive Mode and at i1PRO's certification doesn't say anything about it's accurancy in Emissive mode, you have only certification that is valid for measuring reflective light (printing/paper industry).

I think SpectraCAL does emissive mode recertification.
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post #125 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Spectral Radiance with OL 455 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST)
Spectral Irradiance with OL 200/ UV 40 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST) → Set up see below
Spectral Radiant flux with Wi40/G (Osram, traceable to PTB)

I believe the Radiant flux calibration is only for the Specbios 1311 and 1301. Spectroradiometers don't measure radiant flux, you need an integrating sphere for that.

JETI 1311 means JETI 1211 + Intergration Sphere, the meter is exact the same and you can use it without the shpere.

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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

As for i1PRO it's certification has to do only by measing some BCA tiles at Reflectance Mode, but to measure displays it's working at Emissive Mode and at i1PRO's certification doesn't say anything about it's accurancy in Emissive mode, you have only certification that is valid for measuring reflective light (printing/paper industry).
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

I think SpectraCAL does emissive mode recertification.

Yes, just a checking, not prevent meter drifting or change something from inside the meter to meet the specs.


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post #126 of 137 Old 02-09-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


Yes, just a checking, not prevent meter drifting or change something from inside the meter to meet the specs.

ah, I thought they actually recalibrated it, my bad. good to know!
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post #127 of 137 Old 02-10-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post


You don't need a large number of samples for certified meters, since all certified meters have very low devations and virtually the same performance.

You need large meter samples for meter that are not coming with certificate....

The certifications of each meter proofs that is reference grade, for JETI the whole process includes:

- intake measuring check

- mechanical and optical alignment test

- wavelength check and possibly recalibration (low pressure discharge lamps HgAr, Cd, software JETI FitTool)

- sensitivity recalibration (included in software JETI LiVal, but password protected)

Spectral Radiance with OL 455 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST)
Spectral Irradiance with OL 200/ UV 40 (Gooch & Housego, traceable to NIST) → Set up see below
Spectral Radiant flux with Wi40/G (Osram, traceable to PTB)

- automatic test measurements (3 times on 20 different spectra) to check device stability, device intercomparability and comparability to a reference unit (CS-2000 of Konica Minolta)
issuing of the calibration certificate (example).

As for i1PRO it's certification has to do only by measing some BCA tiles at Reflectance Mode, but to measure displays it's working at Emissive Mode and at i1PRO's certification doesn't say anything about it's accurancy in Emissive mode, you have only certification that is valid for measuring reflective light (printing/paper industry).

Thank You this mostly makes sense.
Looking at the spectral sample of the Kuro test it looks like the i1pro is within a reasonable margin of the 1211, likely minor dE differences, is this correct? If so do you know what is different about the Panasonic ST60?
Also because of the process to recertify the i1Pro is it possible that this meter could be an outlier and not be representative of the majority of i1Pro's when measuring emissive displays? Or is the better conclusion that its a cheap meter and you cannot expect it to be truly accurate?
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post #128 of 137 Old 02-10-2014, 04:33 PM
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Here is a comparison of the i1pro2 vs. JETI-1211 as a function of saturation on my plasma. I did not find any strong dependence on color error difference vs. saturation. The i1pro2 operated in 3.3 nm sampling mode compared slightly better in relative averages to the JETI for the red and blue primaries and for all primaries at the lowest saturations (near white/white).




Average improvement 10->3.3 nm sampling: Red - 0.20 dE2000, Blue 0.11 dE2000, near white/white (16% and 0%) - 0.23 dE2000
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post #129 of 137 Old 02-10-2014, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

i can semi add to this, though its not an exact i1pro vs jeti comparison. What you see below is a colorchecker screenshot of my custom built profile with my c6 meter against my i1d3pro(chromapure's version which offsets are built against a jeti). Also below is a screenshot of the same colorchecker, same patterns, proper offset, but taken with my new i1pro.
Clearly you can see that the i1 pro measures differently with some colors, but others colors are really close.

custom c6 profile against chromapure i1d3pro




i1 pro measurements

Huge colour checker. I thought so many people said colour rarely used near 100% points. Look how close a lot of them are in different points right on the edge of the triangle.
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post #130 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Here is a comparison of the i1pro2 vs. JETI-1211 as a function of saturation on my plasma. I did not find any strong dependence on color error difference vs. saturation. The i1pro2 operated in 3.3 nm sampling mode compared slightly better in relative averages to the JETI for the red and blue primaries.

Hi Zoyd,

how did You force the meter to operate in 3.3nm mode? I thought I've read somewhere in the forum that this mode is locked by X-Rite because of noise issues (or something like that).

Can this mode also be used with other software solutions like Calman or LightSpace too?

I use
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post #131 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 04:56 AM
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This is a feature Graeme has implemented in his drivers. His test results are here along with a discussion of the trade-offs. I think in general one shouldn't use this mode because it's not guaranteed to give you better results, although there is no known evidence that it degrades results. It's possible that it would give consistently better results on something with narrower primaries than what has already been tested, but I don't know of any data to support that yet.

The other software doesn't implement it since the results are not entirely predictable and X-rite does not support this mode (the probe sensitivities have to be interpolated to the finer grid).
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post #132 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Here is a comparison of the i1pro2 vs. JETI-1211 as a function of saturation on my plasma. I did not find any strong dependence on color error difference vs. saturation. The i1pro2 operated in 3.3 nm sampling mode compared slightly better in relative averages to the JETI for the red and blue primaries.

Hi Zoyd,

how did You force the meter to operate in 3.3nm mode? I thought I've read somewhere in the forum that this mode is locked by X-Rite because of noise issues (or something like that).

Can this mode also be used with other software solutions like Calman or LightSpace too?

Hello, you can use HCFR using the i1PRO1/2 in Hi-Res Mode (3.3nm) to take the WRGB readings that required for your meter correction and then import the xyY manually to LightSpace or CalMAN or ChromaPure. wink.gif


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post #133 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 08:50 AM
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Thank You Zoyd and Ted,

very interesting reading about the Hi-Res mode. Good to know that HCFR support it too, thought the driver was for ArgyllCMS only.
For the VT60, which has a wide gamut respectively more narrow primaries this could be an advantage.
But without a proof that this particular combination is working it is a shot in the dark, as Zoyd and Greame stated it can or can not work.

It would be very interesting to see some readings in 10nm and 3.3nm mode compared to the Jeti on a VT60 display.

At least here is one member with all stuff needed. Any takers, SillySally?? rolleyes.gif
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post #134 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Thank You Zoyd and Ted,

very interesting reading about the Hi-Res mode. Good to know that HCFR support it too, thought the driver was for ArgyllCMS only.
For the VT60, which has a wide gamut respectively more narrow primaries this could be an advantage.
But without a proof that this particular combination is working it is a shot in the dark, as Zoyd and Greame stated it can or can not work.

It would be very interesting to see some readings in 10nm and 3.3nm mode compared to the Jeti on a VT60 display.

At least here is one member with all stuff needed. Any takers, SillySally?? rolleyes.gif

Not all stuff, I only have a I1Pro 2.

I think this sums it up the report done by Graeme, his statement also is in line with what other software/hardware makers have said.
"The High Resolution mode is primarily useful for showing more spectral detail, and should probably not be used for colorimetric measurement when the highest possible robustness and reliability is desired. The potential for improved accuracy may be of benefit in other situations though. "

Anyway depending on your video source, yes you will see a difference particularly in flesh tones and at higher light levels on are VT60's. That is not to say the I1Pro 2 does a bad job, but the proof is in the detail of what the 1211 can do visually. smile.gif

I am still in the beginning stages of getting to really know this very sensitive instrument.

On a side note heads up to Ted, the 1211 uses a USB A to B mini port cable. That said the cable that comes with the 1211 really does do a nice job, and the tri pod is a lot nicer than the 1201's tri pod.smile.gif

ss
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post #135 of 137 Old 02-11-2014, 02:50 PM
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I use the 1211BT, where the BT stands for Bluetooth. This allows for ranges of up to 100m when connected via that option. It has USB aswell and because of the BT it has a built in batt and charging point, so this setup also acts as a buffer for the voltage supply should it be weak. I think the BT version was a few hundred more, but has some advantages.
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post #136 of 137 Old 02-24-2014, 12:01 AM
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Just a remark concerning the recent JETIs LiVal update:
The changes of the actual Version 5.0.7 compared with the Basic Version 5.0.0 mainly concern some bugfixes of metamery calculation according to ISO 23603:2005 (characterization of viewing boxes).
There are no changes concerning Display calibration.
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post #137 of 137 Old 02-24-2014, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen Goerlich View Post

Just a remark concerning the recent JETIs LiVal update:
The changes of the actual Version 5.0.7 compared with the Basic Version 5.0.0 mainly concern some bugfixes of metamery calculation according to ISO 23603:2005 (characterization of viewing boxes).
There are no changes concerning Display calibration.

Hello Steffen,

Have you tested or recommend a device like that for JETI Meters:

AQVOX USB Low-Noise 5V Isolated Linear Power Supply


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