HCFR and the spyder 4 express/pro - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-29-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

 

I'm new to the community and really appreciate your opinion. I have quite a bit of experience with tvs and electronics in general and have always been one of those people that keeps up to date in this area. I just purchase a Samsung un55f7100 and I am looking into calibration as I want the best out of my tv. Instead of purchasing isf calibration from best buy I wanted to try my hand at using hcfr. I've read through a couple guides and have a rudimentary knowledge as I have spend 5 years in installing/selling tvs in the past. 

 

My question is if im going to be using hcfr to calibrate do i want the spyder 4 express (no ambient light sensor) or do i want the pro model (ambient light sensor)? If I do go for the pro model how does hcfr use this sensor. Do i have to input initial readings or does the sensor/hcfr take the light into account when displaying other values? My tv does have day and night settings so if I can take advantage of properly calibrating both scenarios i would like to. But if HCFR doesn't use this info then Ill save the money on the sensor.

 

Thanks for your input.

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post #2 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rallyman03 View Post

Hey guys,

I'm new to the community and really appreciate your opinion. I have quite a bit of experience with tvs and electronics in general and have always been one of those people that keeps up to date in this area. I just purchase a Samsung un55f7100 and I am looking into calibration as I want the best out of my tv. Instead of purchasing isf calibration from best buy I wanted to try my hand at using hcfr. I've read through a couple guides and have a rudimentary knowledge as I have spend 5 years in installing/selling tvs in the past. 

My question is if im going to be using hcfr to calibrate do i want the spyder 4 express (no ambient light sensor) or do i want the pro model (ambient light sensor)? If I do go for the pro model how does hcfr use this sensor. Do i have to input initial readings or does the sensor/hcfr take the light into account when displaying other values? My tv does have day and night settings so if I can take advantage of properly calibrating both scenarios i would like to. But if HCFR doesn't use this info then Ill save the money on the sensor.

Thanks for your input.

the hardware in the differents spyder 4 is strictly the same : buy the cheaper one (spyder 4 express or spyder 4 hdtv...)

the sensor is not necessary for our purpose of display calibration, always calibrate in controled light room (a bat cave at night, with no light is the optimum biggrin.gif)

The calibration is viewing image in respect of the international imaging standard, for night and day settings calibrate with due respect to the standard

If you really want to calibrate a day settings (some says is no more real calibration...) you can try a lower gamma or boost 100% white but check for white clipping, color clipping and eye strain...

but with that least solution you are quite out of the standard...

i'd like to say : "it's always preference vs reference"

hope this help wink.gif

ps : for more education in calibration stuff, you can look at the Michael Chen tremendous site http://www.tlvexp.ca/ :

some calibration tips, very good articles, a calibration quizz, an e-learning and somes awesome calibration video training

take a look wink.gif

ps n°2 : if you're more serious about calibration, take a look at the display 3 or display pro colorimeter, a way better than the spyder 4 (better repeatability, more accurate at low light level, more fast and work with all others cal software (hcfr, chormapure, calman) if in the future you want to update your gear).

The i1 pro spectro REV D (used for 250 / 400 $) is the way to go if you want the accuracy of the spectro

the best combo is the D3 + i1 pro, the D3 profiled with the i1 pro (best of both world : accuracy and speed, good repeatability, accurate at low light level from 0,001 ft/L...)
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 05:19 AM
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 05:35 AM
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow thanks for all the responses guys! Ill look over all the resource's you've made available. (oh what a can of worms I have opened for myself :) ) 

 

All of you have an amazing new year!

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post #7 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 07:01 AM
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keep us updated from your calibration smile.gif
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Will do. However now you have me wondering if I should just go straight to the display pro or would that be a waste for a noobie?

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post #9 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 08:54 AM
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i can't answer and decide for you... it depends on what you are looking for...

- Calibrate only one (your) display or more (family, friends, others...) ?

- budget : you have the budget for the display pro ?

- time : have you a lot of time to spend hours of learning calibration stuff, training, testing ?

I think if you have the budget the display pro is the way to go, and if you've finished your calibration you can sell your Display pro more easily than the spyder 4 wink.gif
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I would be calibrating my displays and all my friends / family. I can make the budget for the display pro (lol). I'm just at the very beginning of my learning curve. But I am a bit of a perfectionist. Am I going to get much better results using the pro and hcfr? Then i would over the spyder and hcfr?

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post #11 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 10:45 AM
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choose the Display pro, you don't regret it smile.gif
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-30-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha well I guess its settled then. Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you posted on how everything goes.

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post #13 of 24 Old 02-03-2014, 07:28 AM
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Does the X-RITE I1 DISPLAY PRO work for calibrating plasma TV as well?

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post #14 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 02:32 AM
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Absolutely!
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 02:39 AM
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Much better than the i1 Display 2 for a normal home user?

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post #16 of 24 Old 02-04-2014, 07:16 AM
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The I1 Display pro is faster with better repeatiblility , reads at the lower end better and has sealed optics so it drifts less over time. So yes it is a better meter

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post #17 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 12:29 PM
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what did you guys mean by D3 + i1Pro? i know that i1 Pro refers to the i1 Display Pro http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055MBQOW/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p421_d3_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=001CJWYXN8K7XNDZZMKN&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

but what did you guys mean by D3?

i am also in the same boat as op. i have the option of upgrading my ancient Spyder2 express, which i no longer use for any of my LED monitor, or 60 inch LED ES8000 samsung. the upgrade plan provided by data color will give me 30% off.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by howzz1854 View Post

what did you guys mean by D3 + i1Pro? i know that i1 Pro refers to the i1 Display Pro http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055MBQOW/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p421_d3_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=001CJWYXN8K7XNDZZMKN&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

but what did you guys mean by D3?

i am also in the same boat as op. i have the option of upgrading my ancient Spyder2 express, which i no longer use for any of my LED monitor, or 60 inch LED ES8000 samsung. the upgrade plan provided by data color will give me 30% off.
The i1Pro is not the same as the i1Display Pro. The i1Pro is a spectro; the i1Display Pro is a colorimeter. The actual model number of the i1Display Pro is EODIS3 (Eye One Display 3), so people usually call it D3 or i1D3 for short.

Many calibrators purchase both so that they can get the best of both worlds by profiling their colorimeters. You get the accuracy of the spectro, with the speed and low-light capability of the colorimeter.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

The i1Pro is not the same as the i1Display Pro. The i1Pro is a spectro; the i1Display Pro is a colorimeter. The actual model number of the i1Display Pro is EODIS3 (Eye One Display 3), so people usually call it D3 or i1D3 for short.

Many calibrators purchase both so that they can get the best of both worlds by profiling their colorimeters. You get the accuracy of the spectro, with the speed and low-light capability of the colorimeter.

ok. now i am confused. Spectro? you mean Spectrometer? i thought all we need is a color meter like i1Display pro (AKA i1D3) and a calibration software. what is a spectrometer? and how does it differ from a colormeter.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 02:27 PM
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http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487208/colorimeters-and-spectrographs-questions#post_23657729

The D3 is pretty good on its own, especially on certain displays, and is what many DIYers use. It's the minimum I would recommend. But if you want to ensure accuracy, something like an i1Pro rev.D is a good affordable solution if you want to take it to the next level, but that's your call to make.

edit: FYI, the C6 is based on the D3 probe, but includes additional tables to help improve accuracy.
http://store.spectracal.com/c6-vs-oem
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-calibration-tables-really-work-for-tri-stim-devices/
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487208/colorimeters-and-spectrographs-questions#post_23657729

The D3 is pretty good on its own, especially on certain displays, and is what many DIYers use. It's the minimum I would recommend. But if you want to ensure accuracy, something like an i1Pro rev.D is a good affordable solution if you want to take it to the next level, but that's your call to make.

edit: FYI, the C6 is based on the D3 probe, but includes additional tables to help improve accuracy.
http://store.spectracal.com/c6-vs-oem

so the i1Pro is basically an enhanced edition of the i1D3?

is it this? http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm

somebody need to ****ing slap those engineers around on their naming convention. i1 Display Pro = i1 Display 3; and i1 Pro is not i1 Display Pro. WTF!!!. makes me really frustrated and angry. maybe i'll just go with a spyder 4

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 03:27 PM
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No, the i1Pro is a spectrometer, the i1Display Pro and its variations are colorimeters. The i1Pro is a completely different meter. Read the links that I provided to know the differences between the two (spectro and colorimeter) and how the D3's accuracy can vary depending on the display. That should give you a better idea of why people buy both the D3 and i1Pro. Basically they profile their D3s (colorimeter) to their i1Pro (spectro) so that they have the accuracy of the i1Pro/spectro, but the speed and low-light capability of the D3/colorimeter to ensure accuracy. Using the D3 by itself is generally not as accurate.

You may be confused as why there's a meter called the i1Display 3 Pro. This is Chromapure's enhanced version of the D3 which includes additional tables to improve accuracy. Hopefully this clears things up:

i1Display Pro / i1Display 3 / D3 / i1D3 / EODIS3 - colorimeter
i1Display 3 Pro - Chromapure's enhanced version of the D3 with additional tables - colorimeter
C6 - SpectraCal's enhanced version with additional tables (among other things) - colorimeter
i1Pro - spectrometer
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 03:36 PM
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And then there is colormunki display and colormunki spectro so one should also be careful in distinguishing what others are referring to when they just talk colormunki rolleyes.gif ...
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-05-2014, 04:24 PM
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ok. thanks for clearing that all up.

where can you buy the i1 Pro at? i can't find it on Amazon.

also. is there an update to date guide for HCFR. i am debating and deciding which colormeter to get, but i am also investigating which software to use that's not too complicated, so an up to date guide would be preferred than a guide that's written back in 2008.

i plan on using it for my 60ES8000 samsung LED tv.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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