Can't get 2-pt grayscale controls on Samsung PN51F5300 Plasma to affect anything above 60% stim... Help! - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

The real question though is, how/when do you know which gamma calibration is the best one to be used for the content you are currently watching. On my VT60 I've just been doing a BT.1886 curve of sorts. I basically make as few adjustments to the 10-pt gamma as possible (most I change is +/- 3 in any direction) to as little points as possible. I stick to the 2.4 gamma preset and go from there, always trying to get the low end to be a bit brighter gamma to help with shadow detail. This is what the latest gamma plot looks like on my last calibration touch-up (avg gamma comes out to 2.22):



30 IRE -1
40 IRE 1
50 IRE 2
60 IRE 2
70 IRE 1
90 IRE -3

the rest at defaults of 0

What is your white level and black level in fL? I would imagine the VT60's ultra-low blacks would result in a 2.4 power-like response for BT.1886 gamma.


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post #242 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 02:43 PM
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Black levels my meter can't measure that low. (colormunki photo spectro) white level at 100 was 33.5 ftL


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HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #243 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 03:24 PM
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bt.1886 w/ 114.77cd/m^2 peak white (33.5fL) / 0.0045cd/m^2 mll (0.0013fL, about what the VT60 generally measures) vs 2.4 power gamma.

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post #244 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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What happens when white level is 40 to 45 fl?


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post #245 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 08:31 PM
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post #246 of 254 Old 02-14-2014, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Something like video levels though is much more apparent than say gamma. Unless you are going from say 2.0 gamma to 2.6 gamma wink.gif

My point exactly. wink.gif To be honest, I've never felt the need to go back to power law on my display. Everything that looks "wrong" with BT1886, still looks wrong with power-law @ 2.2. That being said, if you were to flip back and forth between BT1886 and PL@2.2, you would probably have a "preference" ... at least temporarily.
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post #247 of 254 Old 04-02-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a question about the 10pt controls. With my current contrast setting of 90, those controls don't work well in the top third of the grayscale. I can't use higher contrast without major discoloration on white/color clipping patterns like those on Ted's disc. Also all my sources except for the PS3 don't allow me to clip wtw and btb so I can't even hide the discoloration for the other sources.

I wonder if setting contrast at 100 and then lowering the rgb gains to avoid discoloration would be a way around the issue or if I simply have to ignore the 10pt controls on this model?
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post #248 of 254 Old 04-03-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I have a question about the 10pt controls. With my current contrast setting of 90, those controls don't work well in the top third of the grayscale. I can't use higher contrast without major discoloration on white/color clipping patterns like those on Ted's disc. Also all my sources except for the PS3 don't allow me to clip wtw and btb so I can't even hide the discoloration for the other sources.

I wonder if setting contrast at 100 and then lowering the rgb gains to avoid discoloration would be a way around the issue or if I simply have to ignore the 10pt controls on this model?
Hey I have a different Samsung than you but I think mine is working the same way. The 10pt controls only line up with the respective % brightness when contrast=100. Anything lower and the controls drift up the range, so for example, at contrast=80 on my set point8 in the 10pt controls is impacting 95%-100% white and point9 and point10 do absolutely nothing.

I posted some details here - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508580/luminance-gamma/30#post_24147518


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post #249 of 254 Old 04-16-2014, 05:25 PM
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My PN51F5300AFXZA failed spectacularly one month ago and (long story short) Samsung eventually replaced it with a new PN51F5300BFXZA manufactured March 2014, panel TS02. The BF model is loaded with different firmware, which is apparent in some of the menu options. The user interface for setting 2-pt gain/offset is now expressed in numbers ranging from -50 to +50, with all defaults set to 0. I plugged in the numbers provided by PlazmaPZ8OU on the + side of the scale, and the results look good to my untrained eye.

Also of note, "Expert Pattern" has been eliminated altogether.

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post #250 of 254 Old 05-21-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have tips on what to focus on while tweaking the CMS? This is what the Custom Color Space defaults look like once the main color control is set right:





Looking at the sat sweeps, I think green hue and red saturation are the two biggest issues while looking at the CIE diagram. The next thing that I notice on the diagram is cyan saturation.


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post #251 of 254 Old 05-21-2014, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the other version of the CIE diagram:



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post #252 of 254 Old 05-21-2014, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Hey I have a different Samsung than you but I think mine is working the same way. The 10pt controls only line up with the respective % brightness when contrast=100. Anything lower and the controls drift up the range, so for example, at contrast=80 on my set point8 in the 10pt controls is impacting 95%-100% white and point9 and point10 do absolutely nothing.

I posted some details here - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508580/luminance-gamma/30#post_24147518

This is one of the quirks with Samsung's. The ten point controls tend to shift when using a lower contrast. The contrast should be kept in the 90-95 range so that the 10pt controls line up properly. There is a way of checking using a 11 point reverse greyscale pattern. Using your white balance controls adjust one of the colors to the max and watch to see which stimulus level is being affected by the control. Make corrections accordingly.
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post #253 of 254 Old 05-21-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Anyone have tips on what to focus on while tweaking the CMS? This is what the Custom Color Space defaults look like once the main color control is set right:

Try using 75% amplitude and 75 % Saturation patterns this will get your lower saturations closer to target but your 100% will be oversaturated. I think you already know this though smile.gif The colors according to the charts look pretty good either then adjusting your cms if you have one set your HSL, or Hue Saturation and Lightness controls to as close to refrence as possilble.. Without a 3D LUT not much else can be improved on interms of the accuracy of the colors and it's linearity.
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post #254 of 254 Old 05-24-2014, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Current Game Mode Calibration/Settings

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--Picture menu
Mode: Standard
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 89
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 41
Tint: G50/R50

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: Off [grayed out]
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 48, Green 4, Blue 3
Green: Red 6, Green 47, Blue 0
Blue: Red 5, Green 0, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 8, Green 48, Blue 48
Magenta: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 51

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 22
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 22
R-Gain: 22
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 22

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Off [grayed out]
Black optimizer: Dark room


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Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; 06-26-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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