Can't get 2-pt grayscale controls on Samsung PN51F5300 Plasma to affect anything above 60% stim... Help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I am doing my first cal on the Samsung PN51F5300, which I got yesterday. I'm in Movie mode, and the 2-pt controls (RGB gains) won't affect anything past 60% stim. I tried lowering Contrast from the default 95 (in various increments, all the way to 75 and while the picture got dimmer, it had no effect on RGB balance from 70% stim to 100% stim. I then turned on the 10-pt controls, to see if that would make the 2-pt controls work right... still no result

At the moment, I'm trying to use the 10-pt controls alone with the default contrast value of 95 and I've set 100% and 90% reasonably well, but 95% is tinted pink/magenta on a grayscale steps pattern.

How do I get the rgb gains to affect the top end? BTW, I'm using my PS4 and Ted's BD disc and this same setup worked fine when calibrating the S60 plasma.
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post #2 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Guess What... Samsung seems to have messed up the 2-pt controls so that the offsets works as the gains and the gains work as the offsets!!!

So, to adjust the bright end I need to adjust the RGB offsets!!!

How could have Samsung messed up the TV that bad?
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post #3 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Wow! I've seen some blunders over the years, and that sounds like one for the hall of shame. eek.gif
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post #4 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Wow! I've seen some blunders over the years, and that sounds like one for the hall of shame. eek.gif

If this was your personal display would you exchange it? It seems to calibrate fine once you realize the 2-pt controls are labeled backwards.
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post #5 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:10 PM
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I don't think I would since everything else seems OK.
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post #6 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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SamsungPN51F5300PDPPictureSettings.docx 19k .docx file

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 41
Tint: G48/R52

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit
Position: [no change]

PIP: Off

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Auto
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: On
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Green: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Yellow: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Magenta: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 28
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 27
R-Gain: 30
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 23

10p White Balance submenu:
Interval 1: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 2: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 3: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 4: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 5: Red -3, Green -3, Blue -3
Interval 6: Red -3, Green -3, Blue -3
Interval 7: Red -5, Green -5, Blue -5
Interval 8: Red -6, Green -6, Blue -6
Interval 9: Red -1, Green -1, Blue -1
Interval 10: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Off [grayed out]
Black optimizer: Dark room
Attached Files
File Type: docx SamsungPN51F5300PDPPictureSettings.docx (19.3 KB, 29 views)
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post #7 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I don't think I would since everything else seems OK.

good point, it annoys me they messed this up but the end result is still very good
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post #8 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Wow! I've seen some blunders over the years, and that sounds like one for the hall of shame. eek.gif

Indeed!
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post #9 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

If this was your personal display would you exchange it?

I would, unless it is reported to be universally the case on every unit (i.e. an inherent 'goof' in the driving software).
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post #10 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

I would, unless it is reported to be universally the case on every unit (i.e. an inherent 'goof' in the driving software).

I posted in some threads about this (plasma sub-forum)... I'll see if anyone else has this (if I do exchange it, I'll probably get some weird looks since they won't understand why I need to calibrate it or why it matters).
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post #11 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Guess What... Samsung seems to have messed up the 2-pt controls so that the offsets works as the gains and the gains work as the offsets!!!

So, to adjust the bright end I need to adjust the RGB offsets!!!

How could have Samsung messed up the TV that bad?

Oy vey. Why am I not surprised? rolleyes.gif


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post #12 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 09:19 PM
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Wonder if Samsung hired the guy that worked on that Mars lander mission that failed.. OPS got them there specs mixed up!
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post #13 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 09:23 PM
 
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Is that the best that can be done for CMS calibration? My SPVA screen from 4 years old can do better... My family just bought the F5350. This set was reported to have all the CMS controls, so I was hoping to see some real good calibrations. No offense, it could be that this set cannot do any better!
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post #14 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Guess What... Samsung seems to have messed up the 2-pt controls so that the offsets works as the gains and the gains work as the offsets!!!

So, to adjust the bright end I need to adjust the RGB offsets!!!

How could have Samsung messed up the TV that bad?

Definitely a blunder on their part, but hardly the end of the world, it took me about two seconds to realize that they were simply reversed.

Nice results on the calibration though, I also have 51F5300 and it's an outstanding value set, and it calibrates fantasically
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post #15 of 254 Old 01-04-2014, 11:35 PM
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LOL ... You guys should try the "CUT"/"DRV" controls a vintage '96 era Sony Trinitron. Wheeeeeeee! wink.gif
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post #16 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

LOL ... You guys should try the "CUT"/"DRV" controls a vintage '96 era Sony Trinitron. Wheeeeeeee! wink.gif


Seems like you enjoy a challenge! wink.gif



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post #17 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

Is that the best that can be done for CMS calibration? My SPVA screen from 4 years old can do better... My family just bought the F5350. This set was reported to have all the CMS controls, so I was hoping to see some real good calibrations. No offense, it could be that this set cannot do any better!

that's just auto color space with tweaks to color/tint... I was too exhausted to use the cms yesterday
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post #18 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

Definitely a blunder on their part, but hardly the end of the world, it took me about two seconds to realize that they were simply reversed.

Nice results on the calibration though, I also have 51F5300 and it's an outstanding value set, and it calibrates fantasically

does your 51F5300 have this issue too? or does this appear to be an isolated incident?
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post #19 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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This is not so uncommon - I was told that this happens once in a while. I think its the whole line, but I will tell you for sure once I unbox this baby and get it running. Is it just my eyes or does this set have a great dithering method? I think Pannys are all about CR and blacks, while Sammys are about overall experience - "cleaner" look as people say. What do you think of this set? Comparing to S60?
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post #20 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

This is not so uncommon - I was told that this happens once in a while. I think its the whole line, but I will tell you for sure once I unbox this baby and get it running. Is it just my eyes or does this set have a great dithering method? I think Pannys are all about CR and blacks, while Sammys are about overall experience - "cleaner" look as people say. What do you think of this set? Comparing to S60?

I agree with what you said about the F5300 vs. the S60.

I wonder if the F5350 will not have this issue (mislabeled 2-pt controls) since it's a different model than the F5300 (slightly).
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post #21 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 02:24 PM
 
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F5350 simply has an added AR filter, which is not working as this set reflects ALL. I wonder if that is because its cheap or because they wanted to not mess up the way pixels look on a matte screen. Anyway, in a store, this TV looked SO bad, but at home it beats ANY LCD out there and for such a low price! Did you know that it actually has blacks deeper than the F5800? Rtings says so... Only slightly, but still...

But I wouldn't exchange for my SPVA LCD though - I like seeing movies in the daytime too!
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post #22 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

does your 51F5300 have this issue too? or does this appear to be an isolated incident?

Yes mine is reversed, also saw the same on my friends set that I calibrated for him.
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post #23 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes mine is reversed, also saw the same on my friends set that I calibrated for him.

ok, at least I'm glad it's not just my set
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post #24 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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SamsungPN51F5300PDPPictureSettings.docx 20k .docx file

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 98
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0
Color: 46
Tint: G50/R50

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: On
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Green: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Yellow: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Magenta: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 30
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 27
R-Gain: 31
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 23

10p White Balance submenu:
Interval 1: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 2: Red +4, Green +4, Blue +5
Interval 3: Red +8, Green +8, Blue +10
Interval 4: Red +4, Green +6, Blue +10
Interval 5: Red +2, Green +3, Blue +5
Interval 6: Red -1, Green +2, Blue 0
Interval 7: Red -6, Green -2, Blue -2
Interval 8: Red -5, Green -3, Blue -2
Interval 9: Red -10, Green -8, Blue -9
Interval 10: Red 0, Green 0, Blue +2

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Cinema Smooth
Black optimizer: Dark room
Attached Files
File Type: docx SamsungPN51F5300PDPPictureSettings.docx (20.1 KB, 20 views)
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post #25 of 254 Old 01-05-2014, 09:31 PM
 
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What is the lowest black point in cd/m^2? 0.035?
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post #26 of 254 Old 01-06-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #27 of 254 Old 01-06-2014, 06:57 AM
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And what is the black level with a constant energy pattern? Mascior's 4% APL is a good one for testing floating blacks.
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post #28 of 254 Old 01-06-2014, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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post #29 of 254 Old 01-06-2014, 07:03 AM
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post #30 of 254 Old 01-06-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
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If it's in-family with other Samsung's it will measure ~0.05 cd/m^2
Wow that's surprising for a Plasma. My Samsung LED/LCD gets .045cd/m^2 using the ANSI contrast pattern with 30ftL white
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