A comparison of 3DLUT solutions for the eeColor box - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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Display Calibration > A comparison of 3DLUT solutions for the eeColor box
1forsnow's Avatar 1forsnow 09:48 PM 03-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

Gill, I feel your pain: ur app got outperformed by some new kid on the block (LS who ?) using ur own customized, optimized Argyll patch set.... what "insider" considered a secret weapon.

Now your right hand man tries to blame LS when u certainly must feel embarrassed knowing that wondering why repeated white reads differ on an ABL inherent display technology does show quite a lack of real world experience and knowledge (considering this has been mentioned on every forum in the last 8+ years), and should be known to everybody especially to folks associated with apps dealing with calibration of displays used for color critical application.

In my heart, I know that u know that blatantly blaming LS does not make Argyll better - it repeatedly gives u page views, word of mouth and internet publicity, but: it does not make Argyll better.

Let me personally assure u: LS is not perfect - yet. Argyll still has a chance and so does HCFR.

In an effort to support Argyll and the creative minds behind Argyll, I personally guarantee u right here that I (and a few others) cannot wait to test ur app more thoroughly once u support the K10. I guarantee u we will get to the bottom of all the propaganda, bogus claims and wishful thinking and we will bring much more relevant data to the table that clearly demonstrate the true performance of Argyll.

I think we can all agree that the future looks very bright for those of us who can remember command lines.

Mike-

Are you for real?! I think you may be taking this a bit too personal. After all, we are just talking about colors on our televisions, geez! I don't know where you live geographically, but maybe you are suffering from cabin fever from this winter we are having. You may want to get that checked out...

If i could nominate you for espn's C'MON MAN, i would...lol

C'MOOON MAN!

Iron Mike's Avatar Iron Mike 10:13 PM 03-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Mike-

Are you for real?! I think you may be taking this a bit too personal. After all, we are just talking about colors on our televisions, geez! I don't know where you live geographically, but maybe you are suffering from cabin fever from this winter we are having. You may want to get that checked out...

If i could nominate you for espn's C'MON MAN, i would...lol

C'MOOON MAN!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

if u are asking after reading my post if I take this "personal", then u are the C'mooooonnnn man of the decade !!!! tongue.giftongue.giftongue.gif

buddy, never winter here and for sure no cabin but you may wanna read my post again.... wink.gif

and if u don't think that Gill & Zoyd blaming LS for the Panny's ABL isn't funny (and something else) then I don't know what is....

In any case cheer up, I just watched Smaaauuugggg on my screen and it looked great ! biggrin.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
sillysally's Avatar sillysally 01:08 AM 03-20-2014
Here are the results from using the same pre settings in the VT60 and same meter profile from 0315.
Please note the 2nd profile came out poorly so I had to use the smooth filter in LS.
For the 2nd profile/LUT zoyd changed the white reading order and started with a black patch.

LS QP for Gray only for 0315 LUT

LS QP for Gray only for 0319 LUT


CM Grayscale for 0315 LUT

CM Grayscale for 0319 LUT

Zip for 255 white read for unity, 0315 and 0319 LUT's.
Whitereadsfrom3LUTs.zip 1k .zip file

Looking at these charts and readings, LS is not the problem.

ss
Attached: Whitereadsfrom3LUTs.zip (1.1 KB) 
Iron Mike's Avatar Iron Mike 01:14 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here are the results from using the same pre settings in the VT60 and same meter profile from 0315.
Please note the 2nd profile came out poorly so I had to use the smooth filter in LS.
For the 2nd profile/LUT zoyd changed the white reading order and started with a black patch.

ss

ss,

can u attach or send me the bcs files ?

- M
sillysally's Avatar sillysally 01:15 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

ss,

can u attach or send me the bcs files ?

- M

Sure.Mike.

Both LUT's and QP gray only.
bscfilesfor03150319.zip 560k .zip file

ss
Attached: bscfilesfor03150319.zip (560.5 KB) 
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767 07:07 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

Mike-
Are you for real?! I think you may be taking this a bit too personal. After all, we are just talking about colors on our televisions, geez! I don't know where you live geographically, but maybe you are suffering from cabin fever from this winter we are having. You may want to get that checked out...

If i could nominate you for espn's C'MON MAN, i would...lol

C'MOOON MAN!

Sorry. I already have the honor. cool.gif


JimP 07:13 AM 03-20-2014
Buzz

Who is who in the photo?
H Stevens's Avatar H Stevens 07:14 AM 03-20-2014
It's Buzz and Rush Limbaugh. Wow! I didn't realize Rush was so tall.....
Citation4444's Avatar Citation4444 07:21 AM 03-20-2014

It's Buzz ( I think) and Chris Berman, not Rush Limbaugh.


buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767 07:50 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

It's Buzz ( I think) and Chris Berman, not Rush Limbaugh.

Correct. Shark Shootout. Chris plays in the Pro-Am every year. Lots of heart, terrible swing. lolololololo
Light Illusion's Avatar Light Illusion 07:51 AM 03-20-2014
I will repeat what I said earlier - it is very common for patches other than 'white' to measure with a higher luminance than the 'white' patch - especially in plasmas, as has been pointed out by 'Iron Mike' and others.
And with multiple 'white' patches, gaining different readings for luminance over time is very normal with plasmas.

We have just made sure LS understands that when performing the LUT generation from the profile data.

Steve
H Stevens's Avatar H Stevens 08:55 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

It's Buzz ( I think) and Chris Berman, not Rush Limbaugh.

I know, it was light humor. With what you folks have been discussing for the last 19 pages, I thought you could use a little.
1forsnow's Avatar 1forsnow 08:58 AM 03-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Sorry. I already have the honor. cool.gif


Ugh...i am so jealous.
zoyd's Avatar zoyd 09:25 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here are the results from using the same pre settings in the VT60 and same meter profile from 0315.
Please note the 2nd profile came out poorly so I had to use the smooth filter in LS.
For the 2nd profile/LUT zoyd changed the white reading order and started with a black patch.

The 0319 profile is free of misreads. In addition to moving the white patch out of the 1st position I added some repeat neutral and colored patterns to monitor the display stability and these show signs of panel fatigue (which shows up as systematic noise in the LS gamma and separation plots).

X=blue, Y=black, Z=red


As a point of comparison my D8000 drift over the same period is only 1.5%.

So I drift corrected the data and produced a new argyll LUT that ss just tested, which yields a very good CM color checker run.



If this is typical of the VT60 or panasonics in general, it would be advisable to monitor and correct for this to achieve the best data sets for inversion. ArgyllCMS will do this for you automatically as part of the profile read tool.
Iron Mike's Avatar Iron Mike 09:45 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The 0319 profile is free of misreads.

If this is typical of the VT60 or panasonics in general

rolleyes.gifeek.gifbiggrin.gif

these last posts tell the entire story (all over again)...
xvfx's Avatar xvfx 07:30 AM 03-23-2014
Curious.... zoyd, when did you get a VT60?
zoyd's Avatar zoyd 08:32 AM 03-23-2014
It's sillysally's display.
1forsnow's Avatar 1forsnow 10:01 AM 03-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The 0319 profile is free of misreads. In addition to moving the white patch out of the 1st position I added some repeat neutral and colored patterns to monitor the display stability and these show signs of panel fatigue (which shows up as systematic noise in the LS gamma and separation plots).

X=blue, Y=black, Z=red


As a point of comparison my D8000 drift over the same period is only 1.5%.

So I drift corrected the data and produced a new argyll LUT that ss just tested, which yields a very good CM color checker run.



If this is typical of the VT60 or panasonics in general, it would be advisable to monitor and correct for this to achieve the best data sets for inversion. ArgyllCMS will do this for you automatically as part of the profile read tool.

This is probably a question for SS....but what size pattern windows were used for this? ABL seems more aggressive with the vt/zt panels than a typical plasma panel. How about a smaller size pattern window to help negate ABL and tame it a little?
zoyd's Avatar zoyd 12:44 PM 03-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

This is probably a question for SS....but what size pattern windows were used for this? ABL seems more aggressive with the vt/zt panels than a typical plasma panel. How about a smaller size pattern window to help negate ABL and tame it a little?

The behavior shown is not related to the brightness limiter, it's a reduction in luminous efficiency of the panel over time with extended pattern sets.
Wouter73's Avatar Wouter73 12:48 PM 03-23-2014
When I do gamma this effect gives me a headache. I learned to calibrate 100% white, then watch normal tv. Then do one reading of 100%, and then never again while calibrating 10 to 90% gamma. Everytime I used to take another 100% reading on my tv, luminance would have dropped and my gamma wouldnt track properly. Its using a mini on a 65vt50
sillysally's Avatar sillysally 04:34 PM 03-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

This is probably a question for SS....but what size pattern windows were used for this? ABL seems more aggressive with the vt/zt panels than a typical plasma panel. How about a smaller size pattern window to help negate ABL and tame it a little?

I used a 5% window black background.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The behavior shown is not related to the brightness limiter, it's a reduction in luminous efficiency of the panel over time with extended pattern sets.

The first Bly Ray I viewed was Gravity because of its black details to see what effect the luminous would have, I was very impressed. The second was Boardwalk Empire, there again because of it low lighting, For this Blu Ray the verdict is still out, the one area that I have a question about was the tones in a few scenes of the men's suite's probably caused be the
correcting of the shift in luminous of my VT60 when comparing to my other LUT's.

Here is a screen shot of the Grayscale, Gamma and RGB balance.


Thanks zoyd, very interesting stuff.

ss
DrFaxe's Avatar DrFaxe 08:31 AM 03-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The 0319 profile is free of misreads. In addition to moving the white patch out of the 1st position I added some repeat neutral and colored patterns to monitor the display stability and these show signs of panel fatigue (which shows up as systematic noise in the LS gamma and separation plots).

X=blue, Y=black, Z=red


As a point of comparison my D8000 drift over the same period is only 1.5%.

# snip #

If this is typical of the VT60 or panasonics in general, it would be advisable to monitor and correct for this to achieve the best data sets for inversion. ArgyllCMS will do this for you automatically as part of the profile read tool.


Steve,

can LS users expect this to be a feature in the next version??
Light Illusion's Avatar Light Illusion 08:57 AM 03-24-2014
LS already deals with such issues as ABL and display fatigue.
Unlike other calibration systems we do not expect or demand that profile patch readings are in a +ve order of reading value based on the source patch value...
You will also find the fatigue associated with such displays is not linear or mono-directional, but changes with the associated patch levels displayed, with dark patches actually causing the 'fatigue' to regress.

Steve
zoyd's Avatar zoyd 02:09 PM 03-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


The first Bly Ray I viewed was Gravity because of its black details to see what effect the luminous would have, I was very impressed. The second was Boardwalk Empire, there again because of it low lighting, For this Blu Ray the verdict is still out, the one area that I have a question about was the tones in a few scenes of the men's suite's probably caused be the
correcting of the shift in luminous of my VT60 when comparing to my other LUT's.

So after all your profiling and testing of different LUT configurations what did you end up using?
sillysally's Avatar sillysally 10:45 AM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

So after all your profiling and testing of different LUT configurations what did you end up using?

I just saw you post.

I ended up using the 9300 patch set dated 03-23, the corrected patch set you made up. Thanks again.

I made a LUT and used a new Beta tool in LS, Environment Variable adjustment at a value of 2.02.
Seems to work well with your patch set. Your corrected LUT works well also, but I don't have my pre calibration settings for that LUT.

ss
derekjsmith's Avatar derekjsmith 04:06 PM 04-05-2014
Look for this new term in CalMAN being announced next week at NAB. "DLC"
spacediver's Avatar spacediver 10:05 PM 04-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Look for this new term in CalMAN being announced next week at NAB. "DLC"

Can you share what it stands for now that NAB has passed? smile.gif
sotti's Avatar sotti 10:19 AM 04-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

Can you share what it stands for now that NAB has passed? smile.gif

It's Dynamic Linearity Correction, and it's part of the 5.3.5 update.

As part of our stepped profiling process we are able to detect where the display is no longer behaving linearly and dynamically add additional points until we can accurately predict the edges of the non-linearity. This is not only increasing the overall accuracy of a calibration, but it is also much more efficient as we can run fewer base calibration points.

No more hunting around for the "right" patch set for your display. With CalMAN, you'll get perfect patch distribution with a set the built for YOUR display.
derekjsmith's Avatar derekjsmith 11:02 AM 04-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It's Dynamic Linearity Correction, and it's part of the 5.3.5 update.

As part of our stepped profiling process we are able to detect where the display is no longer behaving linearly and dynamically add additional points until we can accurately predict the edges of the non-linearity. This is not only increasing the overall accuracy of a calibration, but it is also much more efficient as we can run fewer base calibration points.

No more hunting around for the "right" patch set for your display. With CalMAN, you'll get perfect patch distribution with a set the built for YOUR display.

We will post a indepth independent research paper done on our DLC and how well it does in a couple of days. We were slammed at NAB. More badge scans and demos given on the first day than all of last year and last year was a very good year for us.
PE06MCG's Avatar PE06MCG 11:17 AM 04-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It's Dynamic Linearity Correction, and it's part of the 5.3.5 update.

As part of our stepped profiling process we are able to detect where the display is no longer behaving linearly and dynamically add additional points until we can accurately predict the edges of the non-linearity. This is not only increasing the overall accuracy of a calibration, but it is also much more efficient as we can run fewer base calibration points.

No more hunting around for the "right" patch set for your display. With CalMAN, you'll get perfect patch distribution with a set the built for YOUR display.

Hi Joel,

Just wondering about the problem I currently experience with my Sharp.
The Panel is simply incapable of hitting full saturation for Red and Blue. Because of this Panel fault hopefully DLC will recognise the difference between linearity and a Panel charactoristic?
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