Display Calibration Tools - New Site For LUT Analysis and Enhancement - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 02-17-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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DisplayCalibrationTools.com is a new Internet site dedicated to making LUT's better. The opening paragraph explains the purpose.

Professional Display Profiling & Display Calibration Tools

Display Calibration Tools offers dedicated profiling and calibration workflow tools that enhance and improve your 3D LUT calibration results. Our tools not only go beyond vendor based limitations but provide functionality that unleash the true potential of professional calibrations solutions such as Lightspace CMS and Argyll.


I've just begun to look at the possibilities. As a LightSpace user I'm particularly interested and the site should attract Argyll users as well. smile.gif
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post #2 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 12:46 AM
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Just ran a 21^3 + 21 point GS total patches 9,324.
Used the Cycle dark/light as one of my options, seems to have less patch IR and not discolored. smile.gif
Next time I need to add a little higher % for Weighted.

Took 3:13 to run the 9,324 points setting my K10-A at 3/4 of a second.

All in all the LUT looks good.smile.gif

ss.

btw, I had a little problem oping my patch set because of the compression file type, downloaded 7-Zip and all is well.wink.gif
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post #3 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 02:21 AM
 
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SillySally,

U can extract the downloads also via standard Winzip or Winrar.

The patch weight option is a uniform weight, you can see on the graphs how the weight affects the distribution of the saturation and brightness points.
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post #4 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 02:25 AM
 
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Btw, did u profile a Plasma display ?
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post #5 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 03:17 AM
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I had a play with these tools on Sunday and did a quick 9x9x9 profile on a JVC X500 at a dealers in UK. I used a 65% weighted custom patch sequence with, i think, 41 greyscale steps. I chose to run dark to light patch sequence with it though purely because it allowed me to judge when it was safe to nip out the door to get a coffee without any fear i'd contaminate the readings, hahahaha.....end result was pretty fantastic. I like the reporting tool as well. Going to try to test another custom patch sequence on my plasma today in the house
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post #6 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 04:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Fraser View Post

Going to try to test another custom patch sequence on my plasma today in the house

For Plasma profiling an additional concern is obviously ABL kicking in sooner or later (and temporary patch IR) during profiling.

Regarding ABL, the cycle dark/bright sort option is a nice approach to hinder/reduce ABL. Another approach is to sort all patches brightest to darkest, so the longer in the profile run the darker the patches, which might also reduce ABL.

I did a custom weighted 17^3 with custom 26 point Greyscale (patches arranged brightest to darkest) the other day and it resulted in the best LUT calibration ever on my Panny plasma...
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post #7 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 04:28 AM
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Mike has done a great gob with this website - with a bit of help from Light Illusion biggrin.gif

But the ability to generate reports and user patch sequences is a great addition, and will help improve calibration results further.
Keep an eye on the website as Mike will be adding new capabilities as time progresses.

Mike - congratulations!

cool.gif
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post #8 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 04:46 AM
 
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As always, Light Illusion support is 24/7/365.... even when it is not about Lightspace. smile.gif

I guess the most accurate and most transparent solution out there just got a tiny bit better.... biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 05:32 AM
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Incredible Work ! These new Display Calibration Tools in hands of LightSpace users are bringing the profiling to a new level.
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post #10 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 12:26 PM
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I'm really impressed ... this tools add valuable flexibility to LS!

Just have spent only a short time playing with ... already now I like the Custom Color Patch Sequence Generator (short: CCPSG). In a simple way it allows everyone to make individual profilings with other characteristics / weightings / sequence order / ... really good job, Mike!

Just one little note for everybody else "beginners" (I had a tiny problem ... wink.gif )

The CCPSG gives you also information about the number of Total Profile Points of your individual settings. Basically this number is consistent with LightSpace's indication of "Total Frames" under "Display Characterization" -> "CSV File" (to import own patch sequences) as long as you don't use a custom greyscale.

I want to note that, because first time I've used the CCPSG with option "Custom Greyscale Points", I've not notized the dynamically added word "app." next to "Total Profile Points", meaning approximately. So I was a little bit confused about the difference of "Total Profile Points" CCPSG told me, compared with the "Total Frames" number, LS has displayed ... biggrin.gif

Mike explained that behaviour to me, so I want to share it:
The dynamic calculation of CCPSG is just approximate, since a custom greyscale will (possibly, very likely) generate duplicate patches that the LS code then later eliminates.

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post #11 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynephyle View Post

Btw, did u profile a Plasma display ?

Yes the display is a Plasma 65VT60

ss
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post #12 of 39 Old 02-18-2014, 06:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Harry* View Post

The dynamic calculation of CCPSG is just approximate, since a custom greyscale will (possibly, very likely) generate duplicate patches that the LS code then later eliminates.

smile.gif

Yes, once a custom greyscale is chosen in the CPSG, the tool adds the corresponding R|G|B patches so that solutions like Lightspace can do a RGB Separation evaluation and populate corresponding graphs.

These additional patches might be duplicates to patches that are already generated by the grid sequence so the code later eliminates these duplicates.

You will always see the exact number of patches in a patch set once u display the patch set (before u save it) in the Profile Overview stats.
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post #13 of 39 Old 02-20-2014, 04:21 AM
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Another question:

Custom Color Patch Sequence Generator:



What does the labeling on the X/Y axis on this 1D Grid Sequence graph represent ?

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post #14 of 39 Old 02-24-2014, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Harry* View Post

Another question:

Custom Color Patch Sequence Generator:



What does the labeling on the X/Y axis on this 1D Grid Sequence graph represent ?

smile.gif

Harry, I can answer this:

The x/y axis in the image you posted represent the RGB level, ergo in 8-bit 0-255.

A RGB patch that is linear would display on a graph similar to the one you refer to as, e.g 128/128 for a 50% grey.

A RGB patch that displays as 128/100 is weighted, it has a specific weight attached to it, so the brightness is lower as the linear version: 50% brightness vs. 39% brightness.
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post #15 of 39 Old 02-27-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

Harry, I can answer this:

The x/y axis in the image you posted represent the RGB level, ergo in 8-bit 0-255.

A RGB patch that is linear would display on a graph similar to the one you refer to as, e.g 128/128 for a 50% grey.

A RGB patch that displays as 128/100 is weighted, it has a specific weight attached to it, so the brightness is lower as the linear version: 50% brightness vs. 39% brightness.

Yes N/Q you have a great tool Mike.

One thing your above graft has brought to mind is the difference between the weighted patch set or a lenear patch set.

I have been playing with the zoyd's posted patch set (2501 points). What I am thinking is that zoyd's posted patch set is lenear not weighted.
In this post using zoyd's posted patch set you will see how even the RGB balance and gamma is. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1517849/a-comparison-of-3dlut-solutions-for-the-eecolor-box/30#post_24367983
However the down side of that patch set is a bit unstable for Lum and Sat when compared to Steve's non beta patch sets.
I have ran that patch set 3 times, the results of the second time I ran it was not very good, the third time I ran it the results as far as dE's go's was very good after touching up the Grayscale.
When I say touching up the grayscale, I only use Red and Blue never Green or any Gamma adjustments.

So my question is would that be the difference between a weighted as opposed to a linear patch set. ?

ss
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post #16 of 39 Old 02-27-2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes N/Q you have a great tool Mike.

One thing your above graft has brought to mind is the difference between the weighted patch set or a lenear patch set.

I have been playing with the zoyd's posted patch set (2501 points). What I am thinking is that zoyd's posted patch set is lenear not weighted.
In this post using zoyd's posted patch set you will see how even the RGB balance and gamma is. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1517849/a-comparison-of-3dlut-solutions-for-the-eecolor-box/30#post_24367983
However the down side of that patch set is a bit unstable for Lum and Sat when compared to Steve's non beta patch sets.
I have ran that patch set 3 times, the results of the second time I ran it was not very good, the third time I ran it the results as far as dE's go's was very good after touching up the Grayscale.
When I say touching up the grayscale, I only use Red and Blue never Green or any Gamma adjustments.

So my question is would that be the difference between a weighted as opposed to a linear patch set. ?

ss

the difference between linear and weighted patch sets is the difference in the 1D patch (1D patch == single R|G|B value) set that is then used to create the 3D patches (--> aka RGB triplets). The original LS 1D patch sequence is also weighted, with a custom weight - for a reason.

You can use any and play with any weight that u see fit, and just to give you an idea what the weight actually does, it's very simple: since it changed the single R|G|B vals of the 1D patch sequence it will now also change the values of the RGB triplets (--> aka 3D patches) that are being created from the 1D patches....

simply look out for how the hue, saturation and brightness coverage and distribution changes. Example: look for how many profile points are pushed into 0-25, 25-75 and 75-100%.

You want a distribution and coverage similar to what a common TV signal / BD disc content would represent.

- M
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post #17 of 39 Old 02-27-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

the difference between linear and weighted patch sets is the difference in the 1D patch (1D patch == single R|G|B value) set that is then used to create the 3D patches (--> aka RGB triplets). The original LS 1D patch sequence is also weighted, with a custom weight - for a reason.

You can use any and play with any weight that u see fit, and just to give you an idea what the weight actually does, it's very simple: since it changed the single R|G|B vals of the 1D patch sequence it will now also change the values of the RGB triplets (--> aka 3D patches) that are being created from the 1D patches....

simply look out for how the hue, saturation and brightness coverage and distribution changes. Example: look for how many profile points are pushed into 0-25, 25-75 and 75-100%.

You want a distribution and coverage similar to what a common TV signal / BD disc content would represent.

- M

Thanks Mike for your very nice explanation.

What I was really driving at was comparing in real world time, how the different ways of going about making patch sets effects the outcome. In the above I am comparing the way Graeme Gill/zoyd writes there's for ArgyllCMS and how Steve wrights his. Weighing the plus and mines in real world calibration as opposed to theory.

ss
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post #18 of 39 Old 02-27-2014, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Thanks Mike for your very nice explanation.

What I was really driving at was comparing in real world time, how the different ways of going about making patch sets effects the outcome. In the above I am comparing the way Graeme Gill/zoyd writes there's for ArgyllCMS and how Steve wrights his. Weighing the plus and mines in real world calibration as opposed to theory.

ss

I can't speak for them, but the approach would be to create a patch set that "scans" the gamut as conclusive as possible, as in: report as much info about all parts of the gamut.

The more conclusive info about a display, the easier for the color engine to calculate appropriate compensations.
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post #19 of 39 Old 02-28-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

I can't speak for them, but the approach would be to create a patch set that "scans" the gamut as conclusive as possible, as in: report as much info about all parts of the gamut.

The more conclusive info about a display, the easier for the color engine to calculate appropriate compensations.

Yes Mike, what I would really like to see is Graeme come up with a larger patch set like 5000 points, Then compare the stability of the two patch sets using something like zoyd's 1000 point checker along with CM's checkers. .

ss
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post #20 of 39 Old 02-28-2014, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Mike, what I would really like to see is Graeme come up with a larger patch set like 5000 points, Then compare the stability of the two patch sets using something like zoyd's 1000 point checker along with CM's checkers. .

ss

Why don't create Your own? All You need is Argyll. Zoyd showed all command line switches in the post here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1517849/a-comparison-of-3dlut-solutions-for-the-eecolor-box#post_24358174

If You like to precondition the set for the native or REC.709 gamut and don't want to do any measurements with argyll You can use a synthetic icc profile.
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post #21 of 39 Old 02-28-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Mike, what I would really like to see is Graeme come up with a larger patch set like 5000 points, Then compare the stability of the two patch sets using something like zoyd's 1000 point checker along with CM's checkers. .
ss

SillySally,

You can do this all yourself, but you need easy and intuitive controls. I'll post something shortly.

Graeme did post a larger patch set a while back here on the AVS, coverage was great, I personally did not like the distribution....

I get back to you...

- M

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post #22 of 39 Old 03-03-2014, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Mike, what I would really like to see is Graeme come up with a larger patch set like 5000 points, Then compare the stability of the two patch sets using something like zoyd's 1000 point checker along with CM's checkers. .

You can dial up any number of points you like in targen. 5000, 10000. 20000, whatever. They just take longer to create and measure.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "stability". The final result depends on how the profile/3Dlut is created. Some approaches will be more robust when faced with measurement variations than others, and there is always a tradeoff between robustness and accuracy.
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post #23 of 39 Old 03-03-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

You can dial up any number of points you like in targen. 5000, 10000. 20000, whatever. They just take longer to create and measure.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "stability". The final result depends on how the profile/3Dlut is created. Some approaches will be more robust when faced with measurement variations than others, and there is always a tradeoff between robustness and accuracy.

Thank you for your reply and your 2500 point patch set.

When I converted the color space in the first profile I did using your 2500 patch set, I should have used peak Chroma instead of peak Luma.

However the second time I ran your patch set I did use peak Chroma, the problem I saw was when I ran CM's QC lum sweeps and sat sweeps, I was seeing many deltaC at about +5.

Please understand I am not complaining, I am just trying to do the best I can.

btw, zoyd has my bcs for his 3000 point patch set and a bcs for his 1000 point checker on that LUT, so maybe he will come up with a great patch set.

Thanks.

ss
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post #24 of 39 Old 03-03-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

When I converted the color space in the first profile I did using your 2500 patch set, I should have used peak Chroma instead of peak Luma.

However the second time I ran your patch set I did use peak Chroma, the problem I saw was when I ran CM's QC lum sweeps and sat sweeps, I was seeing many deltaC at about +5.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with what you mean by "peak Chroma/Luma". Is this to do with verification options, or something else ?
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post #25 of 39 Old 03-06-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Sorry, I'm not familiar with what you mean by "peak Chroma/Luma". Is this to do with verification options, or something else ?

Peak Chroma / Peak Luma are options when you create the LUT in Lightspace...

These options allows you to compensate for a bad white points etc...

- M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwgill View Post

Sorry, I'm not familiar with what you mean by "peak Chroma/Luma". Is this to do with verification options, or something else ?

I gather from Zoyd that these are Lightspace options, and from the description appear to be intent selections. If the target colorspace gamut is not within the gamut of the display, then yes I'm not surprised that different intents will result in different types of out of gamut errors.
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Today some great and very useful features has been posted to DisplayCalibrationTools.com that include updates to existing tools, new free tools and new display calibration guides & workflows.


(1) Updates To Existing Tools

The Lightspace Profile Reporter has received the following updates:

• added Advanced Options interface

• added option to display CIE data for every profile point: XYZ, Yxy, Yuv

• added option to choose Reference White Point used in color conversions such as Display White Point, Color Target White Point, A, B, C, D50, D55, D65, D75, DCI P3, DCI XYZ, E, F2, F7, F11

• added option to choose the Chromatic Adaptation Method (CAT) such as Bradford, von Kries etc

• added option to enable a delta E filter that allows you to filter profile points above or below a delta E threshold

• added additional helper to copy / add relative gamma offsets to Lightspace Custom Color Space Creator

The Lightspace Custom Color Space Creator has received the following updates:

• improved accuracy, stimuli values allow float values now

• added Advanced Options for gamma adjustment points

• added helper to paste / add relative gamma offsets (copied from Lightspace Profile Reporter) to existing gamma adjustment points

(2) New Free Tools

The free Meter Profile Comparison tool allows you to compare an active meter profile against a reference meter profile. The comparison overview includes xyY, XYZ, Yuv stats as well as luminance difference and delta E results in dE 1976 Luv, dE 1976 Lab, dE 1994 and dE 2000. (this was my request, Thanks!)

The free Meter Distance & Pattern Size Calculator tool allows you to calculate the pattern size of a rectangular patch on screen and then use the dimensions to calculate the maximum meter distance for colorimeter and spectrometer.

(3) New Display Calibration Guides & Workflows

We have added a new section that contains Display Calibration Guides & Workflows.

Two calibration guides were added:

Eizo CG275W Calibration Guide Using Lightspace And ColorNavigator

Panasonic 65VT60 3D LUT Calibration Using Lightspace & eeColor
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post #28 of 39 Old 07-22-2014, 06:11 AM
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New updates have been posted to DisplayCalibrationTools.com:

(1) Color Patch Sequence Editor Released

The Color Patch Sequence Editor tool allows you to load, edit, modify and convert any existing color patch sequences from Lightspace, Calman or Argyll.


(2) Updates To Existing Tools


The Custom Color Patch Sequence Generator has received the following updates:


- added 3D RGB color cube with zoom/rotate/filter functionality to patch set statistics


- added Hue image to Custom Patch Set section for easier hue selection

The Color Patch Sequence Viewer has received the following updates:

- added 3D RGB color cube with zoom/rotate/filter functionality to patch set statistics

The Meter Distance & Pattern Size Calculator has received the following updates:

- updated instructions

Lightspace Profile Reporter: no changes

eeColor 3D LUT Analyzer: no changes

Lightspace Custom Color Space Creator: no changes

Lightspace Custom Meter Profile Creator: no changes

Meter Profile Comparison: no changes

i1D3 Integration Time calculator: no changes

(3) New Calibration Guide

A new cal guide has been added to the Display Calibration Guides & Workflows:

Advantage Of Custom Color Patch Sets In Display Calibration
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post #29 of 39 Old 07-23-2014, 04:04 AM
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here are some images of the 3D RGB color cube and how it helps to analyze and visualize patch sets - examples of 2 predefined patch sets:

LS 141 pt QP:



96pt Color Checker SG




as you can see these 2 patch sets above are not great choices for calibration validation... huge holes in the cube (Color Checker SG) or no points between the center and the edges of the cube (LS QP), which is where the bulk of a video signal will be......


here's a 1,000 pt custom patch set used for validation:

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calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
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AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60

Last edited by Iron Mike; 07-23-2014 at 04:42 AM.
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post #30 of 39 Old 07-23-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
here are some images of the 3D RGB color cube and how it helps to analyze and visualize patch sets - examples of 2 predefined patch sets:
Rotation/zoom/movement of the cube presentation works very well.

Thanks for that update, a very useful tool

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