AVSHD Black Clipping 17-25 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

i recently got my Panasonic P65VTW60 ISF Calibrated. I checked it with AVSHD .709 Disc and everything looks good except one thing:

On the first Basic Pattern for Black Clipping where 17-25 should flash only 20-25 flashes. The White Clipping is correct. Sure i can rise brightness to +3-4 (was calibrated at -3) and then the bars 17-25 are visible but would this not destroy the whole calibration ?

I'm worried that the calibrator guy did something wrong. Any suggestions what i should do now ?

Thanks,
-T5000
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post #2 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

Hi,

i recently got my Panasonic P65VTW60 ISF Calibrated. I checked it with AVSHD .709 Disc and everything looks good except one thing:

On the first Basic Pattern for Black Clipping where 17-25 should flash only 20-25 flashes. The White Clipping is correct. Sure i can rise brightness to +3-4 (was calibrated at -3) and then the bars 17-25 are visible but would this not destroy the whole calibration ?

I'm worried that the calibrator guy did something wrong. Any suggestions what i should do now ?

Thanks,
-T5000

Hello, just call him and report that you found, you have a serious black clipping detail problem, tell him that all black details are crushed.

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post #3 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, so i guess there is no other solution than having him recalibrate it... Thanks.
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post #4 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

Hi, so i guess there is no other solution than having him recalibrate it... Thanks.

If you change the brighness control youself, your gamma will be of at low range, but it has to measured to be fixed by your calibrator.
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post #5 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

If you change the brighness control youself, your gamma will be of at low range, but it has to measured to be fixed by your calibrator.

Yeah i thought about that, there is no way around it frown.gif.
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I talked to my calibrator and he said with his Test Disc he can see all patterns (he uses a Calibration disc from BUROSCH). So i checked it by myself with this BUROSCH Disc and yes he is right. With that Disc every test pattern looks perfect BUT there exist no pattern like the Black Clipping 17-25 from the AVSHD Disc. They have only patterns showing the whole spectrum of 0-255. The calibrator said that test patterns may vary from different discs but i thought such patterns are relies on a standard so that statement must be wrong somehow.

So what should i say ? something like: if AVSHD don't show it it's not there ? (i hope it's really that reliable or at least more than his disc ?!).

I don't want do mess with him because the colors are perfect but the brightness, gamma are slightly off based on AVSHD. But he back up his arguments with *his* Disc and that my gamma is 2.24.

Now i don't know what i should belief or which Disc i should trust... as i said his disc don't have this detailed patterns like AVSHD Basics.

Should i trust AVSHD or his *professional* opinion ?
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post #7 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 03:40 PM
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Are both discs playing at the same resolution?
I ask as I noticed the AVCHD version would only run at 1080/60 not matter what my player was set to.
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post #8 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Are both discs playing at the same resolution?
I ask as I noticed the AVCHD version would only run at 1080/60 not matter what my player was set to.

AVSHD plays at 1080/60 the other at 1080/50.
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post #9 of 16 Old 02-23-2014, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Are both discs playing at the same resolution?
I ask as I noticed the AVCHD version would only run at 1080/60 not matter what my player was set to.

Hello, AVSHD Disk is 23.976p : MPEG-4 AVC Main Profile 4.0

If it it's not reproduced at this frame rate means that something is not ok at your Blu-Ray output settings or it doesn't support 24p playback from AVSHD Format Disk.

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post #10 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

I talked to my calibrator and he said with his Test Disc he can see all patterns (he uses a Calibration disc from BUROSCH). So i checked it by myself with this BUROSCH Disc and yes he is right. With that Disc every test pattern looks perfect BUT there exist no pattern like the Black Clipping 17-25 from the AVSHD Disc. They have only patterns showing the whole spectrum of 0-255. The calibrator said that test patterns may vary from different discs but i thought such patterns are relies on a standard so that statement must be wrong somehow.

So what should i say ? something like: if AVSHD don't show it it's not there ? (i hope it's really that reliable or at least more than his disc ?!).

I don't want do mess with him because the colors are perfect but the brightness, gamma are slightly off based on AVSHD. But he back up his arguments with *his* Disc and that my gamma is 2.24.

Now i don't know what i should belief or which Disc i should trust... as i said his disc don't have this detailed patterns like AVSHD Basics.

Should i trust AVSHD or his *professional* opinion ?



This Burosch Pattern is the same as AVSHD Brightness Pattern.

If you have Clipping, it's visible with all Brightness Level Pattern in any accurate disk, and AVSHD Brightness Pattern is accurate, I have checked all it's Digital Levels of this pattern.
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post #11 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



This Burosch Pattern is the same as AVSHD Brightness Pattern.

If you have Clipping, it's visible with all Brightness Level Pattern in any accurate disk, and AVSHD Brightness Pattern is accurate, I have checked all it's Digital Levels of this pattern.

Hi,

his Burosch Disc don't have this pattern on it, thats why i checked it with AVSHD.

This Burosch Disc has only this:


but even on that i cant see number 4 it's just black. On AVSHD it looks like this:


so i guess i have to convince him to recalibrate it again. Thanks for your answer i will rely on AVSHD.

-T5000
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post #12 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



This Burosch Pattern is the same as AVSHD Brightness Pattern.

If you have Clipping, it's visible with all Brightness Level Pattern in any accurate disk, and AVSHD Brightness Pattern is accurate, I have checked all it's Digital Levels of this pattern.

Hi,

his Burosch Disc don't have this pattern on it, thats why i checked it with AVSHD.

This Burosch Disc has only this:


but even on that i cant see number 4 it's just black. On AVSHD it looks like this:


so i guess i have to convince him to recalibrate it again. Thanks for your answer i will rely on AVSHD.

-T5000

Tell him to change for his future calibrations the use of that pattern he used to your setup to check your Black level Clipping, with this pattern is impossible to see it you have 17-18-19 (TV Legal - Video Range) Digital Level Clipping, since it has only 16 and 20 boxes.
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post #13 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 04:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I will tell him that. One last question about AVSHD i tried the AVCHD & MP4 Version, on the AVCHD Version i have to set brightness to +4-5 to see bar 17. With the MP4 Version i have to set brightness to +1-2 to see bar 17. I use a PS3 for blu-ray so i played both AVCHD and MP4 on this device.

Which one should i trust: AVCHD or MP4 ? i guess AVCHD is more accurate because the PS3 then uses YCbCr instead of god knows what for MP4 from HDD right ?

-T5000
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post #14 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

I will tell him that. One last question about AVSHD i tried the AVCHD & MP4 Version, on the AVCHD Version i have to set brightness to +4-5 to see bar 17. With the MP4 Version i have to set brightness to +1-2 to see bar 17. I use a PS3 for blu-ray so i played both AVCHD and MP4 on this device.

Which one should i trust: AVCHD or MP4 ? i guess AVCHD is more accurate because the PS3 then uses YCbCr instead of god knows what for MP4 from HDD right ?

-T5000

Use a Calibration Disk, players sometimes are handling differently the Media Files from USB or the disks.

Also there is a possibility the AVSHD MP4 Version to be encoded in Data Range, but I haven't checked that before.

It's better to be based to Blu-Ray Disk or AVSHD Disk Patterns for any Brightness change to your setup.
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post #15 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Use a Calibration Disk, players sometimes are handling differently the Media Files from USB or the disks.

Also there is a possibility the AVSHD MP4 Version to be encoded in Data Range, but I haven't checked that before.

It's better to be based to Blu-Ray Disk or AVSHD Disk Patterns for any Brightness change to your setup.

Thank you, very helpful.

-T5000
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post #16 of 16 Old 02-24-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Are both discs playing at the same resolution?
I ask as I noticed the AVCHD version would only run at 1080/60 not matter what my player was set to.

Hello, AVSHD Disk is 23.976p : MPEG-4 AVC Main Profile 4.0

If it it's not reproduced at this frame rate means that something is not ok at your Blu-Ray output settings or it doesn't support 24p playback from AVSHD Format Disk.

It looks like its a known issue for at least some Panasonic players, I can also report the same issue with Kaleidescape
The solution is easy just use the BD version-if you have a BD burner smile.gif
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