35 fl on Plasma Display - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

i have a Panasonic TX-P65VTW60. I also have a Spyder 3 and 4 Colorimeter (mainly for PC Displays).

Everywhere i read that the contrast hast to be at 35 fl on a 100% white window pattern. Maybe i do something wrong but i can barely reach 35fl with:

Preset: Normal
Contrast: 100
Brightness: +14

no way of achieving this in Professional Preset with only adjust Contrast and Brightness. Maybe i do something wrong, the colorimeter is bad or the software (hcfr) is wrong configured.

So if it is really not possible with this display to reach 35 fl what should i do ? (Pro Preset is set to 60 Contrast what is around 12-13 fl). So is there something wrong ? i mean it looks very bright in a dark room thats why i get the feeling that it can't be measured properly with a Spyder sensor. It looks noticeable brighter compared to my LED PC Monitor which is set to 35 fl.

Any Plasma Pro out there who can explain to me what is going on ?

-T5000
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post #2 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 02:01 PM
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30-35fL is generally considered the ideal range for a dark room, but it's more of a guideline. Set the contrast to whatever your eyes can handle, even if that means setting it lower or above 30-35fL. Just make sure you avoid clipping and/or color shifting.

What size of window patterns are you using? What disc etc.? Window size will affect your measurements due to the ABL (auto brightness limiter). I would use smaller windows, between 5-12%.
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post #3 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

30-35fL is generally considered the ideal range for a dark room, but it's more of a guideline. Set the contrast to whatever your eyes can handle, even if that means setting it lower or above 30-35fL. Just make sure you avoid clipping and/or color shifting.

What size of window patterns are you using? What disc etc.? Window size will affect your measurements due to the ABL (auto brightness limiter). I would use smaller windows, between 5-12%.

I use the 100% white window from AVS HD HCFR pattern. I guess i have to use my eyes and the basic test patterns for black/white level then. Because it don't make any sense measure it if i can't reach 30-35 fl anyway in Pro mode.
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post #4 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 03:09 PM
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AVS HD patterns are ~14% sized and are a bit too big IMO. Smaller windows will have less ABL interference and you will measure a higher peak white given the same settings. I've had better results using smaller windows. Here are some other free discs that you might want to try that have smaller windows.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471757/cmd-hd-calibration-management-disc
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post #5 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 03:25 PM
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re you a EU TV user?
don't recog the W in the model.
US VT60 can get 35ftl

Loving D65
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post #6 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 03:29 PM
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I set my plasmas to the highest contrast setting that doesn't cause clipping or discoloration. The way I see it most plasmas are dim enough that I don't need to make the image any dimmer than it already is. Now if that approach causes eyestrain with a bias light on, consider lowering contrast gradually until eyestrain no longer occurs.
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post #7 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

AVS HD patterns are ~14% sized and are a bit too big IMO. Smaller windows will have less ABL interference and you will measure a higher peak white given the same settings. I've had better results using smaller windows. Here are some other free discs that you might want to try that have smaller windows.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471757/cmd-hd-calibration-management-disc

Thanks i will try them tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

re you a EU TV user?
don't recog the W in the model.
US VT60 can get 35ftl

Yes, i am.

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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I set my plasmas to the highest contrast setting that doesn't cause clipping or discoloration. The way I see it most plasmas are dim enough that I don't need to make the image any dimmer than it already is. Now if that approach causes eyestrain with a bias light on, consider lowering contrast gradually until eyestrain no longer occurs.

I managed to get out 30 fl without discoloration. It looks really bright, no bias light on it right now.

-T5000
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post #8 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 05:54 PM
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from my reading, EU are limited in brightness.
like posted, max contrast that does not clip or mess up gamma/grey scale.
30 is pretty good for a EU model.
I run at @30-33ftl in a dark room. USA VT
good luck

Loving D65
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post #9 of 15 Old 02-27-2014, 11:54 PM
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Weird, I measured 290 cd/m2 from AVSHD small ABL pattern on the EU ST 60 at maximum contrast , custom mode (not sure what panel luminance was set to but I don't think it matters that much for peak brightness)...but it's no more than 60 to 70 on full screen white or ANSI pattern....

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post #10 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post

Weird, I measured 290 cd/m2 from AVSHD small ABL pattern on the EU ST 60 at maximum contrast , custom mode (not sure what panel luminance was set to but I don't think it matters that much for peak brightness)...but it's no more than 60 to 70 on full screen white or ANSI pattern....

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The AVS HD small APL patterns have a smaller window / less ABL interference than the AVS HD standard window patterns. The ST60 is also brighter than the V series. Also, not sure what panel size your ST60 is, but larger panels generally aren't as bright as the smaller panels. Not all meters will measure the same brightness either.

With that said, 290cd/m^2 is still impressive. eek.gif

FWIW, David Mackenzie over at HDTVTest managed to get close to 34fL (or 115cd/m^2) on the VT60/VT65. Not sure what mode or what patterns he used though.
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 01:52 AM
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It's a 50" ST60. I'll try running AVSHD and GCD window patterns at max contrast and report when I find time, I calibrated finally to GCD APL windows with contrast at 65 which gave me 120 cd/m2, low panel luminance...it's a colormunki display meter...
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I measured it again with the Discs mentioned above. On 2% window pattern i reach 35 fl easily with Panel Brightness Medium and Contrast set to 67. On the 2% APL pattern (with the grey background) i get 33 fl with the same settings.

On the 6,5% window pattern i get 33 fl with contrast set to 69 (going higher don't change brightness). On 5% APL window i get 32.2 fl wit contrast 69.

So the question is on which pattern and size should i rely on for calibration ?

-T5000
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post #13 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 07:21 AM
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As long as you're not using full-field patterns on a plasma, there's no right or wrong. Even the patterns you were using aren't really wrong, it was just my personal recommendation to use a smaller window. If you ask 10 different people, you'll probably get at least a few different answers. But personally, I would use either the 6.5% or 10% standard windows, or the 10% APL patterns.
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post #14 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

As long as you're not using full-field patterns on a plasma, there's no right or wrong. Even the patterns you were using aren't really wrong, it was just my personal recommendation to use a smaller window. If you ask 10 different people, you'll probably get at least a few different answers. But personally, I would use either the 6.5% or 10% standard windows, or the 10% APL patterns.

Thank you. I guess that goes for all windows even RGB Cy,Ma,Y to use on a Plasma ? i ask because i have seen a Pro Calibrating Greyscale with windows and the Primary, Secondary colors with FULL-Fields eek.gif ?.

So in short: Use windows for everything on a Plasma because of ABL ?.

-T5000
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post #15 of 15 Old 02-28-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by T5000 View Post

Thank you. I guess that goes for all windows even RGB Cy,Ma,Y to use on a Plasma ?
Yes, use the same patterns for everything.
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So in short: Use windows for everything on a Plasma because of ABL ?.

-T5000
Yes, windows or APL.
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