Dummy calibrating a monitor with i1display pro - AVS Forum
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Display Calibration > Dummy calibrating a monitor with i1display pro
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 07:31 PM 04-16-2014
So, I just got a Dell UltraSharp U2412M for occasional photo editing.

I decided since I have the i1 display pro meter just sitting in my desk, why not calibrate the monitor.

Downloaded the i1profiler software from the x-rite website, install it, ran it following the onscreen instructions, and a few minutes later it's done.

So, did the x-rite i1profiler software calibrated my monitor without me doing any adjustments (contrast, brightness, rgb, etc.)? Does it really capable of calibrating my monitor without my intervention?

Thanks,

Andrei_VVB's Avatar Andrei_VVB 09:11 PM 04-16-2014
Yes. The only intervention should be on the brightness if asked for it.
HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 12:08 AM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post


Downloaded the i1profiler software from the x-rite website, install it, ran it following the onscreen instructions, and a few minutes later it's done.

So, did the x-rite i1profiler software calibrated my monitor without me doing any adjustments (contrast, brightness, rgb, etc.)? Does it really capable of calibrating my monitor without my intervention?

My experience with the i1Profiler software is that it's spectacularly bad ... unless you consider random color patch dE's in the 15 to 20 range to be "good" and greyscale dE's of 20 to 60 to be "good." On the bright side, it did manage to get 100% White pretty close (dE 3.2.) ... OTOH, Perhaps the poor native primary points and relatively low white luminance (48nits) of my laptop's display had a part to play in the poor results.
|Tch0rT|'s Avatar |Tch0rT| 01:34 AM 04-17-2014
Get ArgyllCMS & dispcalGUI (both are free) it's way better than the X-rite software and it'll work with your meter. The X-rite software is finicky and doesn't even give you a detailed report of the results for before and after.
JimP 03:53 AM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

Get ArgyllCMS & dispcalGUI (both are free) it's way better than the X-rite software and it'll work with your meter. The X-rite software is finicky and doesn't even give you a detailed report of the results for before and after.

What's the business with using command line code for Argyle and the cube calibration?
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 07:24 AM 04-17-2014
Perhaps it's time to break out Color HCFR again.

I don't prefer to go through the lengthy process of doing greyscale, primary and secondary colors calibration on a monitor. But if that's what it's going to take to have an accurate/properly calibrated display monitor then be it.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 07:27 AM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

My experience with the i1Profiler software is that it's spectacularly bad ... unless you consider random color patch dE's in the 15 to 20 range to be "good" and greyscale dE's of 20 to 60 to be "good." On the bright side, it did manage to get 100% White pretty close (dE 3.2.) ... OTOH, Perhaps the poor native primary points and relatively low white luminance (48nits) of my laptop's display had a part to play in the poor results.



Could you give me a little background on what the i1profller software does exactly when you run it?

I can't imagine it adjusted the contrast, brightness, colors on my monitor.
|Tch0rT|'s Avatar |Tch0rT| 09:34 AM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

What's the business with using command line code for Argyle and the cube calibration?

I'm not knowledgeable enough on the command line part of it as I use dispcalGUI to do it for me. I followed this guide:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms
You can only do 3DLUT with madVR, that is only for video. Following the guide it made an .icm profile that was much better than any of the ones that X-rite's software had made for me.
HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 10:36 AM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Could you give me a little background on what the i1profller software does exactly when you run it?

I can't imagine it adjusted the contrast, brightness, colors on my monitor.

The specifics are above my pay grade, but the general idea is to measure ~144 (or more) color/grey patches and use the results to create an ICC(icm) "profile," ... windows uses that "profile" to adjust the *source* image data so that it looks like it should on a monitor that's actually been calibrated. IOW, it doesn't really change anything on the monitor itself. All in software a/o video card ...

The problems are many, not the least of which is that the default color error tolerance appears to be set to 15dE. According to the 'monitor evaluation tool,' the resulting profile, for my laptop, still misses that generous margin on at least 3 patches. eek.gif

Perhaps it works better for a monitor that's a bit closer to sRGB to begin with. Windows' "color management" system seems to complicate things even further ... I'm still trying to figure out how to set the "profile"/LUTs to "unity" so that the hardware level adjustments can be trusted. I suppose it's good that I don't actually need "accurate" color on my laptop display. smile.gif
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 11:53 AM 04-17-2014
hmmm....a dE of 15 is quite large.

I guess I do need to run a more acurate calibration, probably with HCFR and adjust settings on the monitor itself.

It seems that a lot of professional photographers are using the i1Profiler software to calibrate their monitors (and expensive ones like Eizo and NEC).
sawfish's Avatar sawfish 01:37 PM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

The specifics are above my pay grade, but the general idea is to measure ~144 (or more) color/grey patches and use the results to create an ICC(icm) "profile," ... windows uses that "profile" to adjust the *source* image data so that it looks like it should on a monitor that's actually been calibrated. IOW, it doesn't really change anything on the monitor itself. All in software a/o video card ...

My understanding is that the profile contains a hardware-level LUT and other settings like Brightness/Contrast that programs like Spectracal Client 3 use to program the video card and display, and that affects all programs. There is also a software-level part of the profile, which programs have to ask to use, and they'll have an "Enable Color Management" option to control it. It's frustrating that most programs won't get the full benefit of the profile that has been set in Windows Color Management, but apparently that's the way it works. I find it all confusing and poorly documented and would appreciate any corrections or elaboration on the subject.
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 03:12 PM 04-17-2014
If you use DispCalGUI it has an interactive step at the beginning where you try to adjust your whitepoint as close as possible to the target using the RGB adjustments of the monitor prior to profiling. You can also set the brightness.
Iron Mike's Avatar Iron Mike 10:06 PM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

hmmm....a dE of 15 is quite large.

I guess I do need to run a more acurate calibration, probably with HCFR and adjust settings on the monitor itself.

It seems that a lot of professional photographers are using the i1Profiler software to calibrate their monitors (and expensive ones like Eizo and NEC).

Eizos and NEC's are not calibrated with i1Profiler. Eizo has it's own calibration sw called ColorNavigator, see here how to properly calibrate an Eizo. i1Profiler is useless.

If you want to go the free route, download Argyll CMS. Then get the free dispalGUI add-on which provides a GUI for Argyll. Run a profile and then let Argyll create an ICC profile.

If you got money to spend then there are other calibration options.

Naturally you should use a reference spectro meter in combination with your i1D3, b/c your i1D3 is not color accurate and will become less and less accurate over time. Other than that, it's the best budget colorimeter.

If you don't want to or can't afford a spectro, dispalGUI has an option to use reference spectro offsets from other users that have the same display as you... while this sounds great and might be useful, you...

a) don't know how accurate their "reference" meter is
b) don't know the unit variation between your screen and the other user's unit....


- M
HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 11:52 PM 04-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

My understanding is that the profile contains a hardware-level LUT and other settings like Brightness/Contrast that programs like Spectracal Client 3 use to program the video card and display, and that affects all programs. There is also a software-level part of the profile, which programs have to ask to use, and they'll have an "Enable Color Management" option to control it. It's frustrating that most programs won't get the full benefit of the profile that has been set in Windows Color Management, but apparently that's the way it works. I find it all confusing and poorly documented and would appreciate any corrections or elaboration on the subject.

Well ... just went through another non-helpful evening of dealing with "i1Profiler" ... Ugly ... I can't figure out if I'm doing something "wrong" in Windows color management or if i1Profiler is doing something stupid ... like trying to profile against an existing device profile instead of setting the LUTs to unity before measuring. I swear it looks like it's reloading the last "default" icc/icm before it starts measuring .... arrrrgh!

At this point, I'm back to using i1Match3 with my old D2 ... at least it's in the right ballpark.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 12:45 PM 04-18-2014
Ok, so now that I've already run the i1Profiler and Windows seem to be using that, how do I remove it and goes back to default?

I will give Argyll CMS and Dispaly GUI a try next.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 01:30 PM 04-18-2014
Well, I've uninstalled i1Profiler.

Installed both Argyll CMS and DispCalGUI.

I ran DispCalGUI and this is what I got.

Could someone help me interpret these charts? How good/bad was my calibration? And how accurate is the display?

Thanks




HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 05:32 PM 04-18-2014
^^^^
The numbers look good! (As far as I can decipher the screen shots.) The only thing to worry about at this point would be the accuracy of the meter. It also looks like your monitor is pretty close even before profiling ... that or argyll is just going with the "native" white point of the monitor ... I can't tell since the pop-up menu appears to be obscuring part of the set up info.

PS: I have an idea about why i1Profiler keeps trying to "sell the Buick" on my laptop. I haven't tested my hypothesis yet, but I think it's all about the target white point "Luminance."
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 06:17 PM 04-18-2014
Here's a shot of the set up screen. I pretty much ran everything at default. Not sure I ran it right either smile.gif

I believe the Dell U2412M is pretty accurate coming out of the box. I am just trying to make a bit more accurate, if possible.





Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 06:32 PM 04-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

I believe the Dell U2412M is pretty accurate coming out of the box. I am just trying to make a bit more accurate, if possible.
More accurate for what?

What did you pick from the Settings dropdown before running it?
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 08:16 PM 04-18-2014
From the Settings drop down, I selected Photo when I ran it.

I am calibrating the monitor for primarily photo editing/developing with Adobe LightRoom 5.

Everything else, I left at default and then ran Profile&Calibration.
HDTVChallenged's Avatar HDTVChallenged 10:57 PM 04-18-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Here's a shot of the set up screen. I pretty much ran everything at default. Not sure I ran it right either smile.gif

I not familiar with the software, but I wonder about the two "Whitepoint" settings: specifically the "As measured" and "Daylight." Those seem to imply 'use the native whitepoint' of the display as opposed to a specific reference such as D65 or D50.


In any case, my suspicion about i1Profiler's "target luminance" setting appears to be correct. What ever you do, never select "native" luminance in i1Profiler. Once I picked 80nits everything worked out ... except I wound up at blinding ~120nits after profiling anyway.
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 06:49 AM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

From the Settings drop down, I selected Photo when I ran it.

I am calibrating the monitor for primarily photo editing/developing with Adobe LightRoom 5.

Everything else, I left at default and then ran Profile&Calibration.
I'd probably have used sRGB myself. Photo with the defaults uses a white point of 5000K. Does Lightroom have it's own color management system? I know Photoshop does.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 08:04 AM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'd probably have used sRGB myself. Photo with the defaults uses a white point of 5000K. Does Lightroom have it's own color management system? I know Photoshop does.


I will give sRGB a try and see what happens. I wish there was a guide on how to run monitor calibration with DispCalGUI. I'll keep searching.

I just got LightRoom 5, so there's still much I need to learn about the software. Not sure it has a color management system.
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 10:10 AM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

I will give sRGB a try and see what happens. I wish there was a guide on how to run monitor calibration with DispCalGUI. I'll keep searching.

I just got LightRoom 5, so there's still much I need to learn about the software. Not sure it has a color management system.
You might want to take a look at this thread. There's an updated guide about halfway down the 2nd page.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 12:29 PM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

You might want to take a look at this thread. There's an updated guide about halfway down the 2nd page.



Thanks Stereodude, I'll take a look at that post again.

I did see that post, but looking at the initial intructions it was a little outdated so I skipped. Glad he updated the tutorial.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 01:38 PM 04-19-2014
It looks like my earlier run was based on 5000k native. My BLUE was a little high on the white point.

I selected 6500k/daylight and re-ran. I had to bring BLUE back down to 2 points on my monitor setting, and RGB lined up perfectly. Here are the new graphs.

Is there a way to see what my dEs are in DispCalGui?






Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 04:17 PM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Is there a way to see what my dEs are in DispCalGui?
Do a measurement report.
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 04:55 PM 04-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Do a measurement report.

Dumb question, but how?

I went to Options menu, selected Measurement Report but it seems like it want to do the measurement again and need my meter plugged in.

What am I missing?
smokarz's Avatar smokarz 04:59 PM 04-19-2014
This is the error I got when I try to run measurement report.





Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 05:14 PM 04-19-2014
You have to plug in your meter and have it on the screen again. It will make some measurements using the installed profile and give you a report of the results.
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