Epson 5030ub calibration - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 06-13-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Epson 5030ub calibration

Hi...I had my 5030ub calibrated today by a professional...the tech calibrated both night time mode and day time mode using the Cinema setting as a base. I watch 50 percent movies 50 percent hockey. Usually I watch movies in Cinema mode and hockey in living room mode...the calibrated movie mode looks brilliant but the calibrated hockey mode using cinema as a base looks dull...if the tech would have used living room mode as a base for hockey, would he have ended up with the same result (ie. a dim picture for hockey) or would it overall be brighter using a calibrated living room mode? I mentioned this approach to him but he felt he would have ended up with the same result...second question...his spectrometer was broken so he needs to return but he thinks he got it about 90 percent correct, does that make sense? just looking for others opinions...thanks
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post #2 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 12:13 AM
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In calibration we tend to use Movie/Cinema mode because they are usually the most accurate pre-set picture modes. When we calibrate, we want to avoid making drastic changes so using Cinema mode makes that easier. Technically, the only difference between your day time and night time modes is that the day time mode should be brighter than the night time mode. The white balance, gamma, and colors should be the same. If he were to calibrate using the living room mode, he may be able to achieve the same result, but it would take much longer and require more drastic changes to the controls (and he may end up charging more). If you feel the day time mode is not bright enough, simply increase the backlight setting. This should make the display brighter without messing up the brightness (how black the blacks are) and contrast (how white the whites are).

As far as his spectro thing... I'm not sure dude. Did you get an ISF calibrator or some other guy?
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post #3 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKACAL View Post
In calibration we tend to use Movie/Cinema mode because they are usually the most accurate pre-set picture modes. When we calibrate, we want to avoid making drastic changes so using Cinema mode makes that easier. Technically, the only difference between your day time and night time modes is that the day time mode should be brighter than the night time mode. The white balance, gamma, and colors should be the same. If he were to calibrate using the living room mode, he may be able to achieve the same result, but it would take much longer and require more drastic changes to the controls (and he may end up charging more). If you feel the day time mode is not bright enough, simply increase the backlight setting. This should make the display brighter without messing up the brightness (how black the blacks are) and contrast (how white the whites are).

As far as his spectro thing... I'm not sure dude. Did you get an ISF calibrator or some other guy?
Thanks...I know I paid for an ISF calibrator but he said he will come back in a couple weeks with his spectrometer and the shop is reputable...there is no backlight setting on my projector as far as I know...is there another brightness adjustment I could make w/o impacting everything else? Also is it possible to get it 90 percent correct w/o a spectrometer? Thanks again...
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post #4 of 10 Old 06-14-2014, 08:58 AM
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Greetings

You cannot have accurate images in a non-reference environment. Especially for the idea of a day mode ... if you are dealing with light conditions that change all the time.

Exactly what time of day constitutes what a day mode is supposed to represent? What season? What the weather is?

If the day mode in question is only to get more light output from the image, then understand that you will have to sacrifice a number of image quality parameters to get there. By definition, Day mode is a compromise. You typically sacrifice the black level ... the detail on the bright end ... the color saturation ...

A very skilled calibrator can eyeball a grayscale to something pretty darn close. There are not too many of those out there though. (But without a spectro to double check ... who knows ... and if you can use the spectro ... why wouldn't you. )

Day mode ... consciously deciding that you do not want 2+2=4 ... but then complaining that the end result is not 2+2=4. Well duh ...

Regards
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post #5 of 10 Old 06-15-2014, 01:02 AM
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I just bought a epson 5030ub a few weeks ago as well and I found that for nite time movie watching THX mode works best, and living room mode works best uncalibrated during the day for watching sporting events on TV, PPV, and playing video games the best mode. The living room mode has a "blue" push to it to combat ambient light.

Last edited by Brock2013; 06-15-2014 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Mode has ambient light rejection colour bias.
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post #6 of 10 Old 06-17-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post
A very skilled calibrator can eyeball a grayscale to something pretty darn close. There are not too many of those out there though. (But without a spectro to double check ... who knows ... and if you can use the spectro ... why wouldn't you. )

A skilled guitarist can tune his guitar by ear and get very close to A=440Hz, but any professional guitarist worth his salt will tune with a tuner. Without using the tuner you might get close, but you can't ensure you're really up to pitch and in tune with every other musician on the planet. With a tuner you can get it as close to dead on as is possible. Eyeballing a display calibration is the same thing, just as you pointed out.
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post #7 of 10 Old 06-18-2014, 06:11 AM
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It seem strange to me that a professional would even consider preforming a calibration with faulty equipment. The whole calibration process is in question.

I agree with Michael that a very seasoned calibrator has developed his skills to the point that his judgement and evaluation of a grayscale value can be quite accurate; this is where the professionals are separated from the newbies. As Michael stated, "Why would one not use a spectro"?

I would not even consider using any colorimeter without profiling it against a spectrometer. To pay for a calibration when the tech states that his equipment is broken and would have to come back later would never happen in my books. This is very unprofessional. As a professional you are to know your job inside and out, backwards and forwards and you never stop studying your field of expertise and you would never show up at a job with questionable equipment. Would you have an operation at a hospital where the the equipment is questionable?
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post #8 of 10 Old 06-21-2014, 10:35 PM
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[QUOTE=randal_r;25058570]It seem strange to me that a professional would even consider preforming a calibration with faulty equipment. The whole calibration process is in question.


"I would not even consider using any colorimeter without profiling it against a spectrometer."


Could you please explain the purpose of this?
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post #9 of 10 Old 06-22-2014, 06:40 AM
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http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-cali...-stim-devices/

Greetings

Because of the above ...

I haven't seen any colorimeter that is inherently more accurate versus a spectro ... certainly not out of the box. Be it $7000 or $150.

Does that mean that colorimeters have no place in the calibration world? Of course not. There are plenty of places where they are more practical than going with a spectro.

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post #10 of 10 Old 06-23-2014, 06:34 AM
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I apologize for my over zealous opinion of professionalism. In my formal occupation it was my department's job to oversee that not only our employees but also outside contractors performed and complied to standards set down by the industry as well as the company's perspective. Old habits die hard.

I agree with Michael Chen that colorimeters have their place. Colorimeters and Spectroradiometers each have their own weaknesses. Here is an quote from a posting by Gregg Lowen;

"A colorimeter is a tristimulus meter....it will never be an accurate tool UNLESS profiled against a spectro
(either by ChromaPure or Calman). It can have internal calibration data loaded into to it but the same
thing applies...it will only be accurate if that internal table is used on the same display that it was
initially created on. When you use a different display the results will not be as accurate.
ANY AND ALL tristimulus meters can only be 100% accurate if the RGB filters that are used in their
creation match the RGB primaries on the display. This is why we use spectroradiometers as a reference
tool (this is part of the THX standard for THX Certified Video Calibrations).. Even a relatively cheap
reference spectro will outperform an expensive tristim meter. To further clarify (and hopefully not
confuse, a tristimulus device can be very accurate if programmed at the factory to match the specific
(measured by a reference tool) primaries of a display manufacturer. If you try to expand this specific
display manufacturer (ie measured pioneer plasma and then try on a Panasonic) to another
manufacturers display you will lose that level of accuracy.
"


To further support this subject, here is a link to Michael Chen's website; http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/04/do-cali...-stim-devices/


In a nut shell, spectroradiometers have difficulty reading low level (0% - 20%), grayscale on displays but are extremely accurate over all. Colorimeters on the other hand, read such levels with ease but unless the colorimeter's internal data is setup for that exact display then accuracy now becomes questionable. The self-evidence of why one would consider profiling is overwhelming.

As to your questioning of my statement, "I would not even consider using any colorimeter without profiling it against a spectrometer." , since colorimeter manufacturers list of which displays that the colorimeter is setup for can be ambiguous. It is wiser to profile than not too.
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Last edited by randal_r; 06-23-2014 at 06:40 AM.
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