Help with 'more color detail' settings on panasonic ST60 plasma? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
That's the thing, I dont know how i'm missing the target to be honest...that's what i'm using the 100% white, I have it set to prompt for the next color every time I run the color or greyscale chart. Is it not matching up because of the greyscale?

I think a new meter is in the plans.
If you do go that route go with the i1d3 much better than the i1d2 you have now .
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post #32 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Try this using your 100% white in your grayscale, take 4 or 5 reading. Then compare the reading, if all 4 or 5 readings are close do the same for your 30% thru 90% and compare those readings. If each of the 4 or 5 readings per patch are close your meter is probably ok.

I don't know what meter you have, but if its a D3 you should be fine.

I didn't recommend a new meter because it sounded like you didn't want to spend any more money.

I think others have reported a slight red tint in the low end of the grayscale, but not nearly as bad as you see.

Anyway if your meter checks out for reputability, then start over using the default settings of your ST60. First input all of D-Nice's night settings (including the Gamma probably 2.4 setting), except for the CMS adjustments and grayscale. Now go to the two point grayscale and first take the reading on the 100% white and 30%, follow CM instructions on how to do this. Then move on as CM instructs step by step.
Once you start understanding what adjustments you make and how they affect other adjustments you will become a good DYI, but it all takes time. As long as you understand getting a good calibration is not going to happen over night and probably will take a lot of practice and reading in CM's how to guide along with asking questions you will succeed.

ss
It's a Pantone display2 meter, definitely has 6 or 7 years on it. Before x-rite bought them out.

You mention plugging d'nice's settings in and setting white balance up from there, what's funny is that's exactly what I did.

I'll try it over and do as you suggest and see what happens. I have a feeling it's the meter though, it's known to drift and one other poster said earlier that I won't be able to get an accurate calibration because of at and I'm starting to believe it.... I'll get everything lined up, take a final reading and see that it's out of whack again and have to make more adjustments, another reading, and it's out of whack again.

So now I may look into an x-rite i1display 3 if that's the one suggested.
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post #33 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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If you do go that route go with the i1d3 much better than the i1d2 you have now .
That's what I hear, even though the Amazon reviews aren't the best but anything negative is related to the provided software that comes with the meter.

What I am concerned with is will it work with the version of calman I have or will it require a new meter license and if that's the case I may look into color hcfr or the free software sillysally referred to, but those seem to have some steep learning curves.
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post #34 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
That's what I hear, even though the Amazon reviews aren't the best but anything negative is related to the provided software that comes with the meter.

What I am concerned with is will it work with the version of calman I have or will it require a new meter license and if that's the case I may look into color hcfr or the free software sillysally referred to, but those seem to have some steep learning curves.
Should work but double check with spectracal
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post #35 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Should work but double check with spectracal
I'll check with them but if I recall correctly it only works on v 4.4 and up.
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post #36 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 04:23 PM
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I'll check with them but if I recall correctly it only works on v 4.4 and up.
It's too bad there isn't an upgrade path for you. Calman 5 is a large improvement IMO
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post #37 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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It's too bad there isn't an upgrade path for you. Calman 5 is a large improvement IMO
That depends how much a new meter license is

I heard its a big improvement, I'm hoping to try it someday.
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post #38 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
That depends how much a new meter license is

I heard its a big improvement, I'm hoping to try it someday.
Upgrade to CalMAN 5.3.5

For users who are still using CalMAN v3 or v4, there is available an upgrade program that allows them to get CalMAN 5 for 25% off the retail value.



I hope that helped.

PS: If you like you can download the free version of CalMAN ColorChecker to check it out, look this thread for more details.
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post #39 of 51 Old 07-07-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
That depends how much a new meter license is

I heard its a big improvement, I'm hoping to try it someday.
Of-course a new meter may help and yes moving to CM 5 would be a help if your ST60 would support AutoCal. You should first commit to learning how to use the tools you have, other wise you will end up like so many before you selling your meters at a loss and hiring a pro to calibrate your ST60 (chunon can tell you all about that). CM you can't transfer the license so you can't sell it.

So yes upgrading your meter may be of some help, understanding now that you have a old D2. The D3 is the best bang for your buck, but make sure CM supports the D3 you would buy.

So yes if you have changed your mind and want to start spending money on this hobby, we can help you to get a pro level calibration for your ST60.

ss
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post #40 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Of-course a new meter may help and yes moving to CM 5 would be a help if your ST60 would support AutoCal. You should first commit to learning how to use the tools you have, other wise you will end up like so many before you selling your meters at a loss and hiring a pro to calibrate your ST60 (chunon can tell you all about that). CM you can't transfer the license so you can't sell it.

So yes upgrading your meter may be of some help, understanding now that you have a old D2. The D3 is the best bang for your buck, but make sure CM supports the D3 you would buy.

So yes if you have changed your mind and want to start spending money on this hobby, we can help you to get a pro level calibration for your ST60.

ss
Stop making statements about me that have no basis in fact. I did not sell any meters or take any losses. I have an I1D2, had a I1D3 that I returned for a full refund. You have no idea what I paid Chad to do my ST60 or my VT60 so stop speculating. Last I checked it is a free country and I am allowed to choose the option that best suites my needs. Honestly I am under no obligation to explain anything to you, I have my reasons for taking the path that I did. I am respectfully asking you to cease referring to me in your posts it is rude behavior.

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post #41 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know the difference between the calman C3 meter and the i1display 3 pro?

Is there a huge difference between the two? I assume it should be significant seeing as its a hundred dollars difference in cost.

Any reason to to get one over the other?
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post #42 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
Does anyone know the difference between the calman C3 meter and the i1display 3 pro?

Is there a huge difference between the two? I assume it should be significant seeing as its a hundred dollars difference in cost.

Any reason to to get one over the other?

Here's my take, the C3 is a good meter and is a modified Chroma 5 design. It does not have sealed optics and is likely to drift more than an i1d3. The i1d3 has sealed optics reads the lower level blacks really well for its price. IMO you should still stick with the i1d3.

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post #43 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Here's my take, the C3 is a good meter and is a modified Chroma 5 design. It does not have sealed optics and is likely to drift more than an i1d3. The i1d3 has sealed optics reads the lower level blacks really well for its price. IMO you should still stick with the i1d3.

+1, plus SpectraCal C3 is not recommended for projector measurements with acceptable results, has some updated filters based to Chroma 5 an older generator meter that was designed for CRT/LCD tech. displays.

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post #44 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
Does anyone know the difference between the calman C3 meter and the i1display 3 pro?

Is there a huge difference between the two? I assume it should be significant seeing as its a hundred dollars difference in cost.

Any reason to to get one over the other?
I have both, and the i1D3 is more reliable with Calman at reading low light levels, both in terms of completing the reading without Calman throwing an error as well as being able to read lower levels. It was also somewhat closer to a ColorMunki Photo I rented than the C3, particularly on my ST60 plasma.

Other advantages include the ability to use it in non-contact mode, and it has sealed optics which are said to be less likely to drift. I believe it also supports faster reading, but I like to use a long delay for better repeatability. You may be able to use the i1D3 with other software depending on what flavor you buy; the various licensing is all very confusing, so do your homework if that's important to you.
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post #45 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 03:11 PM
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+1, plus SpectraCal C3 is not recommended for projector measurements with acceptable results, has some updated filters based to Chroma 5 an older generator meter that was designed for CRT/LCD tech. displays.


Thanks for adding additional info ted
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post #46 of 51 Old 07-08-2014, 06:54 PM
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Stop making statements about me that have no basis in fact. I did not sell any meters or take any losses. I have an I1D2, had a I1D3 that I returned for a full refund. You have no idea what I paid Chad to do my ST60 or my VT60 so stop speculating. Last I checked it is a free country and I am allowed to choose the option that best suites my needs. Honestly I am under no obligation to explain anything to you, I have my reasons for taking the path that I did. I am respectfully asking you to cease referring to me in your posts it is rude behavior.
Chill my friend.

There is no shame in trying to become a DYI calibrator, and deciding its just not your cup of tea. As I said many before you did the exact same thing as you did.

My suggestions to the OP is as follows.
1. Check his D2 for repeatability.
2. Start over, this time follow CM's workflow and how to do it to the letter.
3. Use D-Nice settings except for any adjustments to his grayscale and CMS.
4. Get the grayscale close starting with 30% and 100%, then the other 8 points.
5. Try and adjust the CMS settings.
6. If he see's he is making headway, then decide if you want to start upgrading your hardware.
7. As I have said, from looking at his CIE (CMS) chart, is his Y values. What he has to understand that if you move a primary you must adjust the other two primary's to compensate. That probably is one of the reasons why is Y values are off, plus there is something very funky going on with his Y value for 100%. More than likely he is adjusting that setting to compensate, and as you know that is a big no no. You would only adjust your 100% point very slightly as a touch up after you have set up your grayscale and CMS, then recheck all your settings
Its for these reasons why it is so important to follow Calman step by step guide.

Does this make sense to you.?

ss
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post #47 of 51 Old 07-09-2014, 01:32 AM
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Thanks for adding additional info ted
SpectraCal C3 Meter Topic @ X-Rite's Common HelpDesk Questions

''SpectraCal sells a custom OEM version of the ColorMunki Smile.

This is a true OEM version of the instrument.

It has a custom instrument name ("SpectraCal C3"), custom paint job/artwork, and custom instrument password so it only works with their software.

This device WILL NOT connect to any X-Rite software.

They are the only OEM with a custom version of the ColorMunki Smile device.

X-Rite does not provide support for this product...all support must go to SpectralCal.''



So X-Rite's ColorMunki Smile + SpectraCAL's C3 is the same from the hardware side of view.

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post #48 of 51 Old 07-09-2014, 08:43 AM
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Just to be clear I am not responding to anyone in particular. As far as my diy calibrationexperience, I learned alot with my ST60 and enjoyed that experience. It has given me a greater understanding ofcalibration in general. My equipment hasalways been pretty modest. Meter is anI1d2, pattern source bluray, software Calman 5. I did have an I1d3 for a brief period of time. Chad has done several professionalcalibrations for me and I have been very pleased with all of them. I have the advantage of having a professionalcalibrator in my immediate local area. Over the last 4 years or so I have had a GT25, ST30, VT50 and currentlyown a ST60 and a VT60. Obviously I am aPanasonic guy J

I became interested in calibration back in my GT25 days but had little knowledge. When I got my ST30, I bought the I1d2 and Calman 4 andplugged away for a time but really didn’t understand the fundamentals well enough to obtain a solid calibration. As usual Chad came to the rescue and did agreat job on my ST30. When I got my VT50 I again tried the DIY route, this time with a I1D3 and a Colormunki Photo ended up returning both of those. Results were mixed, my pq expectations are pretty high having seen Chad’s work. So I could never achieve what I considered to be stellar results. Again I think this was a combination of lack of knowledge and some meter limitations. The calibration Chad delivered on my VT50 was stellar and I would still have that set today if I wasn’t afflicted by the green blob issue.

I ended up with the ST60 which I think is a very good set. Chad did a calibration for me but Ihad a pesky green skin tone issue that neither of us could seem to figure out. I did a ton on calibration runs with a profiled I1d2 and feel I have mastered basic calibration techniques pretty well. I enjoy it a lot. I had the opportunity to pick up a VT60 and wanted to get one before they were all gone. I went the professional route once again mainly because I wanted the very best of my set. I do not have the financial resources to obtain the required equipment to get to that professional level of calibration.

What I have found is that no matter how well you learn calibration you are going to run into a meter accuracy wall that may or may not cause you to consider a professional calibration. My limitations have always been my meter and finding a reference pattern source that can be automated. Without a profile from a spectro I just can’t achieve the results I want. I need to get a pattern generator to make saturation sweeps etc less tedious. For me that is where I am at with DIY experience. My VT60 has anabsolutely stunning picture and I am very pleased with it. Knowing myself I will almost certainly go down the diy path again but imo it is not truly worthwhile unless you have the right equipment.

My wish list:
I1d3
I1pro revd
Pattern generator or possibly a radiance

If I can get these things then I think I am all in as far as diy. Just my thoughts having had both the diy experience and professional calibration. I am by no means trying to discourage folks from getting into calibration, it is fun and a worthwhile endeavor. My advice is to go into it with your eyes fully open J

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post #49 of 51 Old 07-09-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I pretty much got the hang of calibrating, what is making this all take so long is a severely driving meter. I plan to get one at the end of this week, an x-rite i1display 3 pro (hopefully).

Hopefully there will either be no drift or very minimal. Preferably the former.
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post #50 of 51 Old 07-12-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
I pretty much got the hang of calibrating, what is making this all take so long is a severely driving meter. I plan to get one at the end of this week, an x-rite i1display 3 pro (hopefully).

Hopefully there will either be no drift or very minimal. Preferably the former.
Dnice's ST60 settings have way too much red in the low end of the grey scale. R cut is at +3 , I have an I1D3Pro meter which detects that red should be set to +3 which clearly makes near blacks reddish viewing real program material and a black clipping test pattern . I just leave the cut's all at default of zero, adjust only the drives of the 2 pt calibration then move on to the 10 pt.. The meter i have is calibrated to a Jeti it's the one that comes with one of the Chromapure calibration packages. T|he meter accuracy is improved over a standard I1D3.

Last edited by hungro; 07-12-2014 at 08:05 AM.
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post #51 of 51 Old 07-12-2014, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Dnice's ST60 settings have way too much red in the low end of the grey scale. R cut is at +3 , I have an I1D3Pro meter which detects that red should be set to +3 which clearly makes near blacks reddish viewing real program material and a black clipping test pattern . I just leave the cut's all at default of zero, adjust only the drives of the 2 pt calibration then move on to the 10 pt.. The meter i have is calibrated to a Jeti it's the one that comes with one of the Chromapure calibration packages. T|he meter accuracy is improved over a standard I1D3.
I noticed the exact same thing, I also am getting (or did get) red in the blacks and my meter showed the same thing, +3 and that was with a iD2 meter and now that I have an iD3 I wonder if it will do the same (hopefully not) but we'll see. But, with all the tweaking options on the display surely there must be a way to get a proper picture without getting red in the greycale.

I'm not able to upgrade the meter license at this time so I'll take a shot at HCFR.

Anyone have any tips on working with HCFR?
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