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Old 07-15-2014, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Pattern Generator

Looking for options on a pattern generator to go with Calman 5.3. Something like the video forge they sell is more than I need or can afford. The option they offer for a thumb drive to make your own with a western digital TV box seems like it will bee pretty slow since the pattern calls are still made via IR adapter.

I'm not sure what other options are supported by Calman. Perhaps an older accupel generator that could be found used? I have seen the DPG 2000's on ebay. I have also read of issues with the accuracy of certain models.

What would my options be?
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:10 PM
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Does your laptop have hdmi out?

I was in the same situtation, i would never have used my laptop, but after exessive testing have i verified that the hdmi out is accurate (when setup correctly)
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ACappo View Post
Does your laptop have hdmi out?

I was in the same situtation, i would never have used my laptop, but after exessive testing have i verified that the hdmi out is accurate (when setup correctly)


No. It does have display port. I have a MacBook Pro that does. But then I'd need to use two laptops and that would be a pain.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:17 AM
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you can fairly cheap buy a display port to HDMI fairly cheap, might be worth a try?
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ACappo View Post
you can fairly cheap buy a display port to HDMI fairly cheap, might be worth a try?

I'll look into it. Not sure how Calman 5.3 works as far as acting as its own pattern generator and whether the PC output levels would be an issue.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:02 AM
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Calman has its own pattern generator that works very well (I use it my self)
regarding PC levels you have to set your video card in your laptop to output 0-255 on some PC's that can be a pain

what video card is in your laptop?
I have an intel HD4600 and it was fairly easy to do.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Looking for options on a pattern generator to go with Calman 5.3. Something like the video forge they sell is more than I need or can afford. The option they offer for a thumb drive to make your own with a western digital TV box seems like it will bee pretty slow since the pattern calls are still made via IR adapter.

I'm not sure what other options are supported by Calman. Perhaps an older accupel generator that could be found used? I have seen the DPG 2000's on ebay. I have also read of issues with the accuracy of certain models.

What would my options be?
Hi,

I empathize with your situation of economics verses functions. The DPG 2000 is as you say "slow" and accuracy is only there after getting all the settings correct. This is an area where only SpectraCal can help, so avoid the forums for advice as to the proper settings. The other advantage to the media player based units is that you can run reference material for a customer. This allows for a pure video signal as not everyone now owns a DVD player as I have found numerous times in the past (many have switched to streaming with the introduction of smart displays).

Others have suggested to use a laptop, I would only recommend this if it is a Mac OS based computer. Apple has maintained strict control over their hardware, where all other manufacturers use various video cards through out various models. If you can find a used Mac, then I would recommend the Virtual Forge software package from Spectracal http://color.spectracal.com/store/pattern-sources/virtual-forge-pattern-generator.html

This package is designed to work with CalMAN software. Since economics is the prime reason for your choice regarding a purchase the aforementioned two choices are the best that I can suggest for you. Good luck.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
Hi,

I empathize with your situation of economics verses functions. The DPG 2000 is as you say "slow" and accuracy is only there after getting all the settings correct. This is an area where only SpectraCal can help, so avoid the forums for advice as to the proper settings. The other advantage to the media player based units is that you can run reference material for a customer. This allows for a pure video signal as not everyone now owns a DVD player as I have found numerous times in the past (many have switched to streaming with the introduction of smart displays).

Others have suggested to use a laptop, I would only recommend this if it is a Mac OS based computer. Apple has maintained strict control over their hardware, where all other manufacturers use various video cards through out various models. If you can find a used Mac, then I would recommend the Virtual Forge software package from Spectracal http://color.spectracal.com/store/pattern-sources/virtual-forge-pattern-generator.html

This package is designed to work with CalMAN software. Since economics is the prime reason for your choice regarding a purchase the aforementioned two choices are the best that I can suggest for you. Good luck.


Thanks for the insight. I am in contact with Spectracal, they are looking into options as well.

I do have a mac I can use. The issue is I need the AJA T-tap Plus their virtual forge. That will be close to $800. I's also rather not lug around 2 laptops, but that may be the least of my problems.

I realize pattern generators aren't cheap, so I am thinking maybe used would be an option so long as it is compatible with Calman.

You are right, some people do not have disc players anymore and that is why I looking into this, as well as speed.

If worst comes to worse, I can bring a blu ray player with me until I can afford a better generator.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Thanks for the insight. I am in contact with Spectracal, they are looking into options as well.

I do have a mac I can use. The issue is I need the AJA T-tap Plus their virtual forge. That will be close to $800. I's also rather not lug around 2 laptops, but that may be the least of my problems.

I realize pattern generators aren't cheap, so I am thinking maybe used would be an option so long as it is compatible with Calman.

You are right, some people do not have disc players anymore and that is why I looking into this, as well as speed.

If worst comes to worse, I can bring a blu ray player with me until I can afford a better generator.
Glad to see that you are getting a handle on it. I have the Accupel 5000 Professional and I still carry the media player around for the reasons stated before. The DPG 2000 is nothing more that a Western Digital live tv media player. I went onto ebay an acquired an older unit (equivalent to the DPG 1400), as this unit has a setting to allow up to 12 bit video where as the 2000 is only 8 bit. I have video test patterns that I can also run through the player there by eliminating the need to carry around a DVD player. Others calibrators who have media players also use them for viewing movies when not being utilized for other usages.

Be mindful that some older signal generators may not have HDMI outputs. Make sure that it has everything you need.

Do not underestimate the media player and it's usefulness. A media player with a portable hard drive is worth it's weight in gold. Both items are available on Ebay for $50.00 each. On the hard drive I can keep software (if needed to rebuild the computer), test patterns and reference material for end result viewing for the customer. There is nothing more to add so good luck.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
Glad to see that you are getting a handle on it. I have the Accupel 5000 Professional and I still carry the media player around for the reasons stated before. The DPG 2000 is nothing more that a Western Digital live tv media player. I went onto ebay an acquired an older unit (equivalent to the DPG 1400), as this unit has a setting to allow up to 12 bit video where as the 2000 is only 8 bit. I have video test patterns that I can also run through the player there by eliminating the need to carry around a DVD player. Others calibrators who have media players also use them for viewing movies when not being utilized for other usages.

Be mindful that some older signal generators may not have HDMI outputs. Make sure that it has everything you need.

Do not underestimate the media player and it's usefulness. A media player with a portable hard drive is worth it's weight in gold. Both items are available on Ebay for $50.00 each. On the hard drive I can keep software (if needed to rebuild the computer), test patterns and reference material for end result viewing for the customer. There is nothing more to add so good luck.

Well, I guess even with the slowness, it's probably better than navigating a disc.

Which Western Digital player is the one to look for new? There are a few. Then, I'd just need the IR adapter.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:08 AM
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Well, I guess even with the slowness, it's probably better than navigating a disc.

Which Western Digital player is the one to look for new? There are a few. Then, I'd just need the IR adapter.
I would agree the slowness is better than navigating.

A friend of mine Michael Chen, suggested the model as was illustrated in my last post. The newer units have WIFI built in to them. There is nothing worst than to have to fight with a piece of equipment when it insists on doing nothing else until it has connected to the internet before continuing with anything else; especially at a customer's home. The older units do not have WIFI so this is never a problem. I have seen today on Ebay the older units are available for as low as $36.00 USD. The hard drive as low as $49.00 USD.

If this is a viable option to you, may I recommend that you purchase the thumb drive from Spectracal as the driectory and patterns are setup to function with the CalMAN software. You can transfer the data from the thumb drive to the hard drive, as I feel this would still respect their intellectual property issues (just donot give out their data - an obvious). Although the data from Spectracal is presented as a jpeg format, videos are another story as when stored on a thumb drive. The unit locks up after five minutes due in insufficient data buffering of the thumb drive, hence the reason for the hard drive. The hard drive illustrated in my last posting also does not require a power adapter as it is powered through the USB port.

I have tried to search for the IR adapter on Spectracal's website with no success. I would contact them as they may still have one or two on the shelf. If they do not ask as where to acquire one as these are an "off the shelf product" and the original manufacturer will still have them.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
I would agree the slowness is better than navigating.
Hi Curly,

If you follow my signature link you can download the Free (Lite) Version of my calibration disk that by using a small utility from your PC you can take measurements automatically using a calibration disk using CalMAN.

This is something unique right now for a calibration disk

For instructions read this post.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
I would agree the slowness is better than navigating.

A friend of mine Michael Chen, suggested the model as was illustrated in my last post. The newer units have WIFI built in to them. There is nothing worst than to have to fight with a piece of equipment when it insists on doing nothing else until it has connected to the internet before continuing with anything else; especially at a customer's home. The older units do not have WIFI so this is never a problem. I have seen today on Ebay the older units are available for as low as $36.00 USD. The hard drive as low as $49.00 USD.

If this is a viable option to you, may I recommend that you purchase the thumb drive from Spectracal as the driectory and patterns are setup to function with the CalMAN software. You can transfer the data from the thumb drive to the hard drive, as I feel this would still respect their intellectual property issues (just donot give out their data - an obvious). Although the data from Spectracal is presented as a jpeg format, videos are another story as when stored on a thumb drive. The unit locks up after five minutes due in insufficient data buffering of the thumb drive, hence the reason for the hard drive. The hard drive illustrated in my last posting also does not require a power adapter as it is powered through the USB port.

I have tried to search for the IR adapter on Spectracal's website with no success. I would contact them as they may still have one or two on the shelf. If they do not ask as where to acquire one as these are an "off the shelf product" and the original manufacturer will still have them.

Hope this helps.

Good point about the Wifi. Don't need that hassle. It seems the only reason for an external HD is for reference/demo material as the patterns can be played directly off the thumb drive? Or are there also video files on the Spectral Pattern set thumb drive?

Would you mind posting or PM'ing me the ebay listings you found?

I did find the instructions on Spectracal site that specify the IR adapter and where to get it, if they don't have them. They are also looking to see if they have any older or Bstock pattern generators they could offer. I had planned to buy the patterns from them as you suggested.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Curly,

If you follow my signature link you can download the Free (Lite) Version of my calibration disk that by using a small utility from your PC you can take measurements automatically using a calibration disk using CalMAN.

This is something unique right now for a calibration disk

For instructions read this post.
Does the lite version work with Calman 5 or just the color checker software.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:57 AM
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Does the lite version work with Calman 5 or just the color checker software.
Hi, Free (Lite) Version works with ColorChecker Classic (24 Patches) measurements, or by using CalMAN with a ColorChecker Classic layout page loaded.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:05 AM
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I guess the real question that needs to be answered is does the WDlive/DPG-XXXX output bit perfect patterns/images? It would stink to go thru the calibration process using this only to find out it doesnt output reference patterns/images.
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess the real question that needs to be answered is does the WDlive/DPG-XXXX output bit perfect patterns/images? It would stink to go thru the calibration process using this only to find out it doesnt output reference patterns/images.
Spectracal claims it does. If I go this route, I'll do some comparisons. Maybe someone else already has.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
Glad to see that you are getting a handle on it. I have the Accupel 5000 Professional and I still carry the media player around for the reasons stated before. The DPG 2000 is nothing more that a Western Digital live tv media player. I went onto ebay an acquired an older unit (equivalent to the DPG 1400), as this unit has a setting to allow up to 12 bit video where as the 2000 is only 8 bit. I have video test patterns that I can also run through the player there by eliminating the need to carry around a DVD player. Others calibrators who have media players also use them for viewing movies when not being utilized for other usages.

Be mindful that some older signal generators may not have HDMI outputs. Make sure that it has everything you need.

Do not underestimate the media player and it's usefulness. A media player with a portable hard drive is worth it's weight in gold. Both items are available on Ebay for $50.00 each. On the hard drive I can keep software (if needed to rebuild the computer), test patterns and reference material for end result viewing for the customer. There is nothing more to add so good luck.
the pic without remote.
looks like a new model. I guess an external HD is needed? One with a USB cable? Also where the Calman pattern stick would go?
The pic with the remote looks a little different.
Is it the same?

Last time I looked into the WD players, the early models as big as VHS players were recommended.
Thanks for any help.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:16 PM
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the pic without remote.
looks like a new model. I guess an external HD is needed? One with a USB cable? Also where the Calman pattern stick would go?
The pic with the remote looks a little different.
Is it the same?

Last time I looked into the WD players, the early models as big as VHS players were recommended.
Thanks for any help.
"The pic without remote", is actually an external hard drive that does not require a a power adaptor. The one with the remote is the WD media player. They are no longer as big as VHS players. They are quite small now. Here is a link http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homee.../mediaplayers/

If you are looking at it as a pattern generator look at SpectraCal's DPG 2000.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by randal_r View Post
"The pic without remote", is actually an external hard drive that does not require a a power adaptor. The one with the remote is the WD media player. They are no longer as big as VHS players. They are quite small now. Here is a link http://www.wdc.com/en/products/homee.../mediaplayers/

If you are looking at it as a pattern generator look at SpectraCal's DPG 2000.
you did write HD.
I saw a HDMI port instead of side by side USB 3.

Nice looking HD.
Spectra cal references the WD player for the DPG.

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Old 08-01-2014, 08:01 PM
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Yes,it is a WD hard drive. Here is a link; http://support.wdc.com/product/insta...id=305&lang=en

SpectraCal seems to have dropped the DPG 2000 (could be wrong), but sells the test patterns for the WD media player instead.
Link: http://color.spectracal.com/store/vps-2000.html

If there is any particular piece of information that you may wish to know, I'll try to assist you the best I can please let me know.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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I do have a mac I can use. The issue is I need the AJA T-tap Plus their virtual forge. That will be close to $800. I's also rather not lug around 2 laptops, but that may be the least of my problems.
Just to back up a bit... You would not need two laptops. You could install VMware Fusion ($60) on the Mac and install a copy of Windows 7 ($100) as a virtual machine and run it all on your Mac. That's how I do it and it's a terrific solution. I've done the bluray disk thing and had the DPG-2000 and it was too slow for my patience. The VirtualForge with AJA T-tap is super fast and accurate and I consider it the best bang for the buck. Just my two cents.
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Old 08-02-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to back up a bit... You would not need two laptops. You could install VMware Fusion ($60) on the Mac and install a copy of Windows 7 ($100) as a virtual machine and run it all on your Mac. That's how I do it and it's a terrific solution. I've done the bluray disk thing and had the DPG-2000 and it was too slow for my patience. The VirtualForge with AJA T-tap is super fast and accurate and I consider it the best bang for the buck. Just my two cents.
Yes I know i could use my macbook, and I could probably use virtual box for free too. I have copies of Win7. The cost of the virtual forge and the AJA box was a bit much for me a this point. Question is, with an HDMI out why do you need the AJA box? Is it an issue with accuracy or by passing the onboard graphics controller?

I am pretty disappointed with the WD TV solution. I knew it would be slow, but it is painfully so. If you start a grayscale run it is at least smart enough to navigate within a folder, but if you try and manually recheck a different IRE, it has to go all the way back out and start all over.

If down the road I can justify it, the virtual forge will be something I take another look at it. I wish I could return the VPS patterns, but I don't think you can since they are pretty much like software. I'm also keeping my eye out for a used accupel or something similar that is comparable with calman.
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:14 PM
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We have done many tets with many different Graphics Cards and Graphics Chip Sets on Windows.

They work perfectly.

See: http://www.lightillusion.com/direct_hdmi.html

Steve
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Old 08-02-2014, 03:23 PM
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+1


I too wouldn't rule out the VGA route, personally tested an AMD R9 790 and Intel HD4800 via HDMI with a bit perfect rated bluray player!
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Old 08-03-2014, 04:40 AM
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Because I'm really interested to check how accurate is my bluray player Sony I'm interested in cross-checking with my PC too.
So, what would I have to do in order to have my calibration program (hcfr) on my laptop's screen and blank screen with windows patterns on my plasma?
Thanks!
Ps: patterns on a hdd played by the tv would it be still accurate or the internal player might alter something?
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:57 AM
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We have done many tets with many different Graphics Cards and Graphics Chip Sets on Windows.

They work perfectly.

See: http://www.lightillusion.com/direct_hdmi.html

Steve

Good info, thanks Steve

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Old 08-03-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrei_VVB View Post
Because I'm really interested to check how accurate is my bluray player Sony I'm interested in cross-checking with my PC too.
So, what would I have to do in order to have my calibration program (hcfr) on my laptop's screen and blank screen with windows patterns on my plasma?
Thanks!
Ps: patterns on a hdd played by the tv would it be still accurate or the internal player might alter something?
You would need to connect your Laptop to the plasma via HDMI and configure an "Extended desktop" dual display, drag the pattern source player to your plasma and play full screen.
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:11 AM
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Thanks Hitman. I'll give it a try..
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:39 PM
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Some displays can cause levels mismatch even with reference video generators let alone HDMI outputs from PC's.
Some PC outputs seem to ignore efforts to re configure levels output levels.
Regional differences in displays and sources can screw you aswell.

It can be difficult to varify what is going on without a reference of some type. This is not stating that HDMI from PC's does not work, but more about attempting to atleast try and varify that it is working as you need.

Test with as many sources as you can, consensus tends to favour the majority.

Masterpiece Calibration Ltd
Christchurch NZ
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