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post #1 of 24 Old 07-16-2014, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Sony KDL60W630B Calibration Settings - Opinions?

Hello all!

My first post, and I am already about 100 tabs open with excitement in learning more here. Some really thoughtful and interesting posts here, but unfortunately I haven't found a post about my new TV.
(side note - I started with a 50'' and thought for $250 more the 60'' was a good idea, it's big and I hope the "holy **** this thing is big" factor is normal. I also had a cracked screen, and now stripped screws thanks to the folks who delivered it, so I am on my third one, fun times)

I am now ready to calibrate my TV and I started with the AVSHD 709 calibration MP4 videos to tune my TV.
(AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration)

However, I am so new to doing this myself, my previous TV I was able to find some settings online that worked out quite nicely but for this TV I found none. Therefore, my goal, with your help, is to tune this TV to optimum settings (for free) and share my findings with all.

Maybe one of you has already done this and will make quick work out of this post. Perhaps someone with the tools and technical know how is close to me in Seattle and wants to come over (drinks/bribes of course).

One thing I noticed in my first stab at calibrating the TV was that no matter what the white settings are at, I still see grey bars. Seems like this is OK but I was hoping that this TV would be pretty stellar and have the technology to allow 'perfect tuning.

So in short, help a noob learn and I will do my best to pay the favor forward. Many thanks for your time and help.
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 03:40 AM
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Greetings

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/03/poor-tv...ity-not-happy/

Give this article a read. It covers your real options for getting to a better image on the TV. Real tangible results. The only real path to better viewing.

A summary is:

1. Get a test disc and follow the instructions. (free-$40) If you follow the instructions correctly ... things get better ... if you don't ... well.
2. Get hardware and software along with the test disc and learn how to do all this yourself. Spend the next year scrounging around on the net looking for info. You might get to a better picture eventually. ($150-$500) Just like buying a pro camera does not mean you suddenly take professional level pictures. Learning not included when you buy a hammer.
3. Hire a good professional to calibrate your TV and you get to the best end result in about 3-4 hours. ($250-$450) If you hire a bad one ... well who knows what you end up with. This is not unique to the world of calibration ...
4. Get professional level training along with the hardware and software. Training can cost ($100-$2000) and paying more does not guarantee you get better training. Add this to the hardware and software costs. You can actually get pretty damn good training for as little as $100 ...

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/12/the-fru...oneer-lottery/

This article discusses the real odds that you are facing when you decide to copy settings. And that is probably what you are asking anyway.

Summary .. you have less than 4% chance to do better than stock settings in the TV. That said ... you have a greater than 96% chance of doing no better or worse than the same stock settings. But since you can never verify without gear and knowledge if you are truly in the 4% or 96% group ... the stats don't matter and it is simply a game to find settings you like ... liking .. doesn't make it correct ... 2+2=98 ... I can like that a whole lot, but it is still wrong. You just swap out one type of wrong answer for another one since the correct answer does not matter to you.

If verification is not important to you, then you are no longer talking about calibration ... and why are you in a calibration forum ...?

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/01/setting...u-might-think/

An article on setting contrast. Follow the three rules for setting contrast.


Regards
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post #3 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cehvee View Post
Hello all!

My first post......
Welcome to the forum. Many AVS members come to this section of the forum with a screwy idea of what display calibration is. They make false assumptions based upon ignorance or wrong teaching. One of the more wide spread and persistent myths in the AV hobbyist community is that swapping settings from other devices is a reliable method to achieve accurate performance. These two "sticky" threads from the top of this section of the forum apply to your inquiry:

' Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933

'Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

Michael's site has a wealth of additional detail for anyone serious about understanding display calibration.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you George and Michael!

MichaelTLV - Thank you for this. I will read the articles you sent, and I am happy to say that using the AVS HD 709 MP4s via USB seemed to help, but I am hopeful for even better tuning of the sharpness, this was the hardest to tune for me. I read a few articles from the folks at Sony and many of them mentioned that their factory settings aren't designed to "wow" on the showroom floors, and I am curious to what you think about just using factory settings on Sony vs. other brands. Sounds like Samsung does tune the colors in the wrong direction to "wow" folks.

I understand the difference between calibration for true settings and real-world enjoyable settings now and I am hoping to get a better idea of what those end up looking like. I want to look at skin tones, and highlights on details (for video gaming) as my main points of trying to get a 'good picture'. I might get addicted enough to buy the equipment, but I am not there yet.

GeorgeAB - I read the articles you linked to late last night and was tempted to respond with a shrugging smiley, I should have read them first before making a fool of myself.

Anyways, I completely understand the logic here and that 'sharing settings' doesn't make sense based on the different environmental concerns.

That said, I am not a purist, and at the end of the day I only matter what makes me and my guests say, "That's a good picture!". Ideally I will have settings that work for my style, which is 60% movies/tv and 40% video games.
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post #5 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cehvee View Post
Thank you George and Michael!....

I understand the difference between calibration for true settings and real-world enjoyable settings now and I am hoping to get a better idea of what those end up looking like. I want to look at skin tones, and highlights on details (for video gaming) as my main points of trying to get a 'good picture'. I might get addicted enough to buy the equipment, but I am not there yet.....

Anyways, I completely understand the logic here and that 'sharing settings' doesn't make sense based on the different environmental concerns....
If you seek what is correct in video industry terms, that IS the "real world." Going by feel in a community of varying opinion, intuition, guesswork, and individual preference used to be referred to as "group grope." That activity is encouraged and practiced freely in the display owners sections of the forum. If you don't care to seek for what the program author intended, display calibration is not a worthwhile solution for you.

Sharing settings makes little sense primarily because sample-to-sample loose tolerances prevent reliable repeatability beyond general picture mode options. Varying viewing environment conditions could be considered a close second.
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post #6 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post
If you seek what is correct in video industry terms, that IS the "real world." Going by feel in a community of varying opinion, intuition, guesswork, and individual preference used to be referred to as "group grope." That activity is encouraged and practiced freely in the display owners sections of the forum. If you don't care to seek for what the program author intended, display calibration is not a worthwhile solution for you.

Sharing settings makes little sense primarily because sample-to-sample loose tolerances prevent reliable repeatability beyond general picture mode options. Varying viewing environment conditions could be considered a close second.
Thanks! So let's start with the basics then. Does it matter if you use MP4s on a USB to calibrate a TV vs. a blu-ray? Is the only option for USB to use the AVS HD 709 files? Any others out there you would recommend? I get mixed messages across the forums.

I want to say that my research thus far tells me that it won't make a difference. However I would love your thoughts on the matter.

I don't want to have to change my settings from input to input, and want to freely change between my xbox for gaming and my cable box for watching a show.

Any good tutorials would also be helpful in this, especially how to adjust sharpness and white levels (like I mentioned before, my black levels allowed me to get the reference area solid black but my white level adjustments never got rid of the blinking grey bars from reference and above.

Thanks again!
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post #7 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:21 PM
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Cehvee, You are using the USB version because you don't have a bluray player ?

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post #8 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Cehvee, You are using the USB version because you don't have a bluray player ?
My xbox one plays blu-rays, but I don't have a blu-ray burner to make the disc. If there is a hard copy available then I could go that route.
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post #9 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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Will your Xbox play avchd format? If so you just need a DVD burner for that version
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post #10 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Will your Xbox play avchd format? If so you just need a DVD burner for that version
Looks like it should support that, what burner would you recommend to make the DVD?

Do you think this makes a difference vs. MP4 on USB?
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 12:53 PM
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Maybe for your purpose no, for more advanced calibration yes IMO
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-17-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe for your purpose no, for more advanced calibration yes IMO
Interesting, I would like to know what it would help with and what you would recommend so I can try to see.
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 10:11 AM
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Greetings

Did you visit the site? There are tutorial videos for setting user controls.

Regards

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ISF/THX/TLV Video Instructor
The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #14 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Greetings

Did you visit the site? There are tutorial videos for setting user controls.

Regards
Like this one? http://www.tlvexp.ca/tutorials/part1/
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cehvee View Post
My xbox one plays blu-rays, but I don't have a blu-ray burner to make the disc. If there is a hard copy available then I could go that route.
Hi, Xbox One can't play Recordable Blu-ray (BD-R) due to DRM.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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That is correct, but users have reported that DVDs work just fine:
https://forums.adobe.com/message/6067514
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post #17 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cehvee View Post
Looks like it should support that, what burner would you recommend to make the DVD?

Do you think this makes a difference vs. MP4 on USB?
Hello, some TV's are handling differently the files you playback in USB Mode with those what are entering to HDMI Inputs, a lot of times there mismatch.

Also some TV's are disabling a lot of advanced calibration controls in USB Mode.

The best thing is to take some measurements (Grayscale/Saturation/Luminance or ColorChecker) from your Blu-Ray player and then use the same patterns to measure them from your USB..... Check the reports to see if the measurements from the both inputs are matching closely under meter repeatability tolerance.

But you have to check also Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness/Clipping patterns using your HDMI vs. USB to see if they are matching also.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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sorry for slightly off topic question, does anyone know how the KDL60W610B differs from the 630? Is seems to be a Costco specific model number, but I can't find anything that tells how it may differ from the 630. thanks.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-04-2014, 09:59 PM
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Greetings

Usually you are just looking at a difference in hdmi inputs or something minor like that. Picture is the same.

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post #20 of 24 Old 10-13-2014, 11:08 AM
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Kdl60w610b == kdl60w630b

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Originally Posted by 300zxguy View Post
sorry for slightly off topic question, does anyone know how the KDL60W610B differs from the 630? Is seems to be a Costco specific model number, but I can't find anything that tells how it may differ from the 630. thanks.
I made this same inquiry with two different Sony reps, both of whom said the KDL60W610B & KDL60W630B are in fact identical from a hardware & software perspective. The KDL60W610B is Costco specific model number which is only sold in the U.S. KDL60W630B is the model number generally found at just about every other retailer that I've seen, and it is sold in both the U.S. & Canada. Either way, it is the same TV and you cannot go wrong with this one. I looked at a lot of 2D LED-LCD HDTVs around 60" over the past two months, and thought that the Sony KDL60W610B offered the best picture overall (I have no interest in 3D TVs) now that Panasonic exited the plasma TV business. It's not as good as my Panasonic plasma, but I doubt that any LED TV will match it PQ-wise.
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Setting for Movies

I bought a Samsung UN55H6350 and a Sony KDL60W630b, set them up side by side. At first (out of the box settings) I liked the clear sharp pic of the Samsung. I decided to try and get the Sony looking as good. After a bit of tuning it looks even better, more realistic, less grainy pic. I found with the Samsung you can't turn off their version of "Reality Creation" which enhances the picture clarity and sharpness. Sony however lets you adjust this "Reality Creation" (X-Reality Pro) setting. Anyways here are my settings I use for movies, makes the Blu Ray's I watch look amazing, just watched Tron again last night and was truly impressed and immersed. Xbox One also looks amazing, and I prefer the Sony (a bit slower however) smart TV look over the Samsung which doesn't look as clear (720p or 1080i maybe on the Sammy?)

Settings for Movies:
Turn off Eco mode
Set Scene to Cinema

Backlight: 9
Picture: Max
Brightness: 39 (I found this had a big impact on the picture, making it pop more)
Color: 60
Hue: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 50
Noise Reduction: OFF
MPEG Noise Reduction: OFF
Dot Noise Reduction: OFF
Reality Creation: Manual (This setting a a big impact on sharpness/clarity)
>Resolution: 10 (The further you increase this, you risk seeing more grain in the pic)
>Noise Filtering: Min
Smooth Gradation: Low
Motionflow: OFF
Cinemotion: Auto
Black Corrector: OFF
Adv. Contrast: OFF
Gamma: 0
Auto Light Limiter: OFF
Clear White: OFF
Live Color: OFF (or High, not sure how I feel yet about high)
White balance: default
Detail Enhancer: High (This also had a bug impact on sharpness/clarity)
Edge Enhancer: OFF
Skin Naturalizer: OFF
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-04-2015, 12:02 PM
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Please read post #3 .
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-09-2015, 06:50 AM
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I just picked up this TV. Does it not have a contrast setting? That seems very odd to me.
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-12-2015, 04:28 AM
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If it's confusing or you can't seem to get the "picture" you desire, hire a pro calibrator. This Sony looks better in every way than the LG 60" plasma it replaced & I even had it calibrated professionally. I burned the avs calibration file to a dvd & eyeballed my own settings & I'm happy with how it looks. Whether it would benefit from a pro calib or not is moot since for me, isn't worth the $$ it cost.

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