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post #1 of 20 Old 08-03-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Can I calibrate a TV with an i1 Display Pro?

And if yes, how? I'm guessing I'd need to connect a PC to the TV to do the initial profiling, but what would I do with the generated profile?
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-03-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raident View Post
And if yes, how? I'm guessing I'd need to connect a PC to the TV to do the initial profiling, but what would I do with the generated profile?
the profile you mention is for devices capable of storing and applying luts.

TVs for the most part do not do this.
HomeTheaterPCs can
Lut boxes like EEEcolor can.


to answer your question, the meter needs software to report its readings.
These readings allow you to use the TV controls to adjust the picture.

all the info is here.
Read, read, read.
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post #3 of 20 Old 08-04-2014, 08:48 AM
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Greetings

Will a hammer help you to build a house? Yes, but the hammer won't be teaching you how to do it.


http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/03/poor-tv...ity-not-happy/

Give this article a read. It covers your real options for getting to a better image on the TV. Real tangible results. The only real path to better viewing.

A summary is:

1. Get a test disc and follow the instructions. (free-$40) If you follow the instructions correctly ... things get better ... if you don't ... well. )

2. Get hardware and software along with the test disc and learn how to do all this yourself. Spend the next year scrounging around on the net looking for info. You might get to a better picture eventually. ($150-$500) Just like buying a pro camera does not mean you suddenly take professional level pictures. Learning to build a house is not included when you buy a hammer. (You are sorta here ... with the probe in hand ... now you need software ... and more ... since there is more to calibration than just software ...)

3. Hire a good professional to calibrate your TV and you get to the best end result in about 3-4 hours. ($250-$450) If you hire a bad one ... well who knows what you end up with. This is not unique to the world of calibration ...

4. Get professional level training along with the hardware and software. Training can cost ($100-$2000) and paying more does not guarantee you get better training. Add this to the hardware and software costs. You can actually get pretty damn good training for as little as $100 ...

You will get out of this what you put into it.


Regards

Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
ISF/THX/TLV Video Instructor
The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #4 of 20 Old 08-04-2014, 01:00 PM
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With the advancements in calibration software and hardware, it has become much better/easier for the DIY.
Most of the retail software programs are automatic, meaning the stuff Michael is taking about you don't need to learn.
Along with the improvements in the new TV's.

Here are the two ways of going about calibrating your TV for very little cash.

1. Setup a HTPC, cost is very minimal. But this option probably will be harder for someone that isn't PC literate.
MadVR - ArgyllCMS

2. Buy a eecolor box for about $700. This option at the most should only take about 60 days to learn and maybe get better results than most pro calibrators can.
eeColor processor - ArgyllCMS

Now for your software.

Download install ArgyllCMS, dispcalGUI, madVR. Cost $0
Buy a D3 meter. Cost $250.
Download AVSHD 709 calibration disc. Cost $0
AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

Of-course there are calibration software (like Calman, ChromaPure, LightSpace, ect.) you can buy. The plus side to this option is there is someone you can call, email or post to get help.

Most "Pro" calibrators will use hardware and software that DYI'ers will use.

The other option is to Hire a pro calibrator, and hope the calibration turns out well.
For this option you should do your homework, ask questions, know what will be done.
Ask about there software and hardware, do they do a onsite meter profile matrix for your TV. What software they use for the meter profile, is it just the generic calibration software or do they use specialized software, ect.

Disclaimer. I am a DYI'er and have been for many years, I do not charge for calibrations or sell any hardware or software. Calibration is a hobby of mine.
I use state of the art Software and Hardware.
My software that I use is Argyll (package), Lightspace, Calman.
The meters I use are Jeti 1211 and Klein K10-A, along with Jeti LiVal and Klein CromaSurf software to do a precision meter matrix profile using the TV that I am going to calibrate.
I also have a I1Pro 2, but don't use it and have had a C6/D3 meter.

ss
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Last edited by sillysally; 08-04-2014 at 01:11 PM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-04-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
1. Setup a HTPC, cost is very minimal. But this option probably will be harder for someone that isn't PC literate.


Or a plain Laptop with HDMI output will do
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-04-2014, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the information, everyone. I've been calibrating my PC and laptop monitors for years (I had an i1D2 before I upgraded to the i1 Display Pro, and a DTP94 before that) so I'm already familiar with the first option sillysally mentioned - my only concern is that the results won't stick if I were to, say, switch to my PS4 or Xbone since it sounds like most TVs don't have internal LUTs.

Also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post
3. Hire a good professional to calibrate your TV and you get to the best end result in about 3-4 hours. ($250-$450) If you hire a bad one ... well who knows what you end up with. This is not unique to the world of calibration ...
How would one be able to tell beforehand whether or not a professional is "good"? 99% of the general populace will give you a blank stare the moment you start talking about color gamut and white point so testimonials and recommendations seem like a bad idea, and the 1% who know enough about digital imaging to make an objective evaluation are, like you guys, probably going to do their own calibration.
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-04-2014, 03:33 PM
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Greetings

There are the traveling calibrators. Places like BB are not an option given that you have likely a less than 10% chance of someone coming that is actually any good. (This comes from the mouth of a few BB guys that are actually pretty good because they are enthusiasts first.) Would you use a mechanic or a lawyer if you knew you had a 10% chance of getting a good one?

Worst comes to worst ... find someone and ask here if anyone knows about them. There is a core of professional calibrators that hang around forums to help people. (like yours truly)

Regards

Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
ISF/THX/TLV Video Instructor
The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #8 of 20 Old 08-05-2014, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raident View Post
Thanks for the information, everyone. I've been calibrating my PC and laptop monitors for years (I had an i1D2 before I upgraded to the i1 Display Pro, and a DTP94 before that) so I'm already familiar with the first option sillysally mentioned - my only concern is that the results won't stick if I were to, say, switch to my PS4 or Xbone since it sounds like most TVs don't have internal LUTs.


As ss mentioned you need an EEcolor external LUT box for that, it has 6 LUT memories to switch between.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-06-2014, 12:04 AM
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For home theatres, calibrating with the HCFR tool should suffice.

I calibrate with a Spyder4TV and its original software. This is not as accurate as with an external LUT. But for home theater purposes it's good enough for me. It will tell me how to switch the settings of my TVs menu to get the best result...
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post #10 of 20 Old 08-06-2014, 06:29 AM
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Greetings

Well yes and no.

Yes it helps with grayscale and CMS ... but it has no idea what TV you own so you have to figure out what controls you need to adjust.


No ... it wont help you with things like brightness, contrast, color, tint, sharpness, overscan ... among other things.

regards

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post #11 of 20 Old 08-06-2014, 02:12 PM
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What difference would it make if the software had a Idea of what TV you owned.?
Actually most calibration software has meter profile matrix's of most kinds of TV's and projectors. As long as the software supports the meter. Also most calibration software like LightSpace, ArgyCMS, Calman and ChromaPure have what is called AutoCal for supported TV's. If the TV isn't supported you can get external hardware or software that will give even better results.
So in a way the software does know what kind of TV you are working on.

As far as setting brightness, contrast, sharpness and over scan. You don't even need a meter for that, most calibration disc like AVS HD (Free) will help you set those. AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

Mike I am sure you are a seasoned calibrator, so maybe it would be better to ask what kind of TV it is. If you have worked on that model of TV, maybe suggesting starting point settings and tips would be more helpful.

What do you think.?

ss
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-06-2014, 10:41 PM
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first things first: get a spectro to make reference offsets for your i1D3... otherwise you'll be calibrating with useless read results from a colorimeter that has drifted. If you don't do that then u can mess up more things than actually fix. The Spyder is crap: STAY AWAY.

Then decide whether to do a 6pt cal using your TV's internal CMS or a 3D LUT cal using an external LUT box (--> eeColor) or using a HTPC. Not sure which TV you have, if you have lots of good (--> actually working !!!) CMS controls in your TV u can get a good 6pt cal.

3D LUTs are the very best cal you can get on any screen and will outperform all other options.

AFAIK: no video game console has a set color space, and the games themselves are not limited to a given color space, so u cannot calibrate for them, so it doesn't matter whether u switch from PS4 to XB1... calibrate for Rec 709 and it'll look great... or just do Greyscale and leave the gamut at wide (--> more saturated colors.... nice to your eye)...

The latter is what I do on screens used also with video games: 3D LUT + Greyscale only cal.

so for all OTA / disc (DVD | Blu-ray) / streamed / media player content I use the eeColor with 65^3 3D LUTs. The best image u can get in HT or Pro use. There is no other LUT box that can match this beast, and it is the cheapest LUT box.... ;-)))

The screen has all (internal) features turned off, gamut set to raw | native. In pre-profile (--> before displaying profiling for 3D LUT creation) the only thing I adjust is Greyscale, via whatever internal controls (e.g. 10pt GS) the TV has.

So the 3D LUT corrected content looks spectacular and when I switch to another input (TV set to Game Mode) and to run video game consoles, we have very good Greyscale yet enjoy wide gamut which makes video games pop even more...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
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post #13 of 20 Old 04-01-2015, 01:46 AM
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bumping this...i'm the exact same situation as OP
I will be calibrating via PC mode/input with a HTPC which will mean my blu-ray playback/games will be calibrated
but majority of my viewing is under DLNA/All Share which the TV sees as a different input...how do I ensure the calibrations/profile somehow carry over? Would the option 'Apply Setting to All Inputs' work 100%?

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post #14 of 20 Old 04-01-2015, 04:24 AM
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Cross-check with AVSHD mp4 patterns from one of your shared devices, if they don't match your HDMI calibration then you will have to calibrate it separately.
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post #15 of 20 Old 04-01-2015, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
I will be calibrating via PC mode/input with a HTPC which will mean my blu-ray playback/games will be calibrated but majority of my viewing is under DLNA/All Share which the TV sees as a different input...how do I ensure the calibrations/profile somehow carry over? Would the option 'Apply Setting to All Inputs' work 100%?

"Apply Settings to All Inputs" won't help at all, if the HTPC calibration creates an ICC profile that's stored on the HTPC. The other TV inputs will not benefit from the LUTs stored in the profile, even if you apply the same settings. One option is to have the DLNA streaming go through the HTPC to benefit from the calibration.


If you prefer to have the TV itself handle DLNA streaming through a different input, you need to perform the TV calibration through that input.
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post #16 of 20 Old 04-01-2015, 11:05 AM
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So without spending $$$ on a LUT box, there's no way to calibrate the TV's built-in DLNA/Smart TV including apps Youtube/Netflix etc with i1 Display Pro or any hobbyist/prosumer level ones? How would professionals calibrators do it then? I'm sure there's a way without obtaining a LUT box/ get a hold of a $5000+ instrument.

I tried using a Spyder4Pro and it didn't even have an option for plasma so I used CRT...the results turned out to be poopy...didn't help that I didn't have the proper mount.

What about Spyder4TV? That only works with DVD/BD players? Consumer BD Players like a PS3 can't save ICC Profile/LUT settings so how does that work?

http://spyder.datacolor.com/portfoli...tv-hd-upgrade/

I'd rather not use HTPC for DLNA videos due to the cumbersome nature of navigating through Windows on a remote app/Harmony Hub app. I like just picking up the remote, turning on the TV and a few clicks I'm watching a video. For the PC, I'd have to wake up and unlock my phone, open Harmony app, turn on the TV + boot up the PC, switch my app to the remote app, then navigate through there. I didn't consider XMBC/Kodi because of Steam/Lightlight game streams. It'd be nice if SteamOS eventually supports video but I doubt it'll ever have blu-ray playback due to Steam Store but I digress.

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post #17 of 20 Old 04-01-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
So without spending $$$ on a LUT box, there's no way to calibrate the TV's built-in DLNA/Smart TV including apps Youtube/Netflix etc with i1 Display Pro or any hobbyist/prosumer level ones?
On the F8500 if you calibrate Movie mode on the HDMI input with black optimizer set to Auto and then transfer those settings to Movie mode when streaming, it will be calibrated. You can verify this with test patterns from a shared network device (or a USB stick) as I mentioned.
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post #18 of 20 Old 04-02-2015, 12:01 AM
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thanks for the tips! you've done this yourself?

Is there any merit in just renting a D3? It may sound silly but I want to futureproof my purchase and I don't like that Rec.2020 isn't supported in the D3. Also, does D3 work well with OLEDs if I choose to buy said display down the road?

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post #19 of 20 Old 04-02-2015, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
thanks for the tips! you've done this yourself?
yes, of course.

Quote:
Is there any merit in just renting a D3? It may sound silly but I want to futureproof my purchase and I don't like that Rec.2020 isn't supported in the D3. Also, does D3 work well with OLEDs if I choose to buy said display down the road?
The D3 is currently delivered with correction values for OLED.
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post #20 of 20 Old 04-02-2015, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
"Apply Settings to All Inputs" won't help at all, if the HTPC calibration creates an ICC profile that's stored on the HTPC. The other TV inputs will not benefit from the LUTs stored in the profile, even if you apply the same settings.
I should clarify my previous statement. It was for the case (as described by the "original original" poster) where the calibration is done by creating an ICC profile on the HTPC. In such cases the calibration cannot be transferred to the other TV inputs as the corrections reside on the HTPC.

However, if the calibration for the HTPC input is done using the TV controls, then indeed the TV settings can be applied to the other inputs.
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