Colorimetry Research - New Probes for Display Calibration - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 164Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-06-2015, 11:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rayjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 1,843
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Send a message via AIM to Rayjr Send a message via Yahoo to Rayjr Send a message via Skype™ to Rayjr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I'm not familiar with Calman, do you know if this bundle also includes license for i1Pro2? I have CP, but this looks like a good time to jump in and Calman for free.
Here is the Matrix for what the software supports.

But I would contact SpectraCal just to be sure.

Hope this helps.
RayJr
Rayjr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-06-2015, 11:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Thanks. I'll give'em a call.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-07-2015, 04:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1531 Post(s)
Liked: 631
How accurate are the plasma correction tables for the CR100?

Would you still need to profile off of a spectro?

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is offline  
 
Old 02-07-2015, 04:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
How accurate are the plasma correction tables for the CR100?

Would you still need to profile off of a spectro?
Jim, u always need to (for best accuracy), that will never change - for any display technology (not just Plasma) as these tables are not done on your particular display...

what can "help" (if u don't have a good spectro) is, if the Plasma tables were done on the same brand as ur TV, e.g. Panasonic VT series... contact CRI and ask them which TV brand they used to create the tables...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-07-2015, 04:58 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1531 Post(s)
Liked: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
Jim, u always need to (for best accuracy), that will never change - for any display technology (not just Plasma) as these tables are not done on your particular display...

what can "help" (if u don't have a good spectro) is, if the Plasma tables were done on the same brand as ur TV, e.g. Panasonic VT series... contact CRI and ask them which TV brand they used to create the tables...

- M
I know that's the prevailing though on profiling but I've found that a profile off of a jeti 1211 performed off of my Samsung F8500 worked very well on my Panasonic VT50. Maybe its pure luck.

But you're very right. I'll check with them if they don't respond to these post.

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is offline  
Old 02-07-2015, 05:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
I know that's the prevailing though on profiling but I've found that a profile off of a jeti 1211 performed off of my Samsung F8500 worked very well on my Panasonic VT50. Maybe its pure luck.

But you're very right. I'll check with them if they don't respond to these post.
how would u know that F8500 profile "worked very well" on ur VT50 unless u directly compared it to a real VT50 profile done with the same Jeti 1211 on the same display (VT50) ?

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-07-2015, 05:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1531 Post(s)
Liked: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
how would u know that F8500 profile "worked very well" on ur VT50 unless u directly compared it to a real VT50 profile done with the same Jeti 1211 on the same display (VT50) ?
Good skin tones including gradation of tones without obviously skewed colors in other areas. (full disclosure...I use to be a pro photographer with studio and in house lab....so what's obvious to me might not be that obvious to someone else)

May not be scientific enough for some but ultimately it is about how the picture looks.

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is offline  
Old 02-07-2015, 03:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Good skin tones including gradation of tones without obviously skewed colors in other areas. (full disclosure...I use to be a pro photographer with studio and in house lab....so what's obvious to me might not be that obvious to someone else)

May not be scientific enough for some but ultimately it is about how the picture looks.
... that is all true IF (!) you would know how the colorist graded the footage... they don't all grade skin tones alike

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 01:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Okay, heard good things about the CR-100 and placed my order, but what's the story with the CR-250 spectrometer? Is it ready for prime time? I see there's also a CR-250RH that can be ordered with a different spot size...confusing!! I'll be using with Chromapure.


CR-250RH Spot Size Calculation


50mm lens: 20+(0.026 x distance in mm)
60mm lens: 24+(0.02166 x distance in mm)
75mm lens: 30+(0.01733 x distance in mm)
100mm lens: 40+(0.013 x distance in mm)

Last edited by Pres2play; 02-08-2015 at 01:12 PM.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
^^^I should mention, I have no projectors. The meters are for my Samsung 55" OLED display, so I'd like know what you guys think the right spot-size should be. I've been using my i1Pro2 in contact mode, so I'm assuming the same for the CR-250.

Last edited by Pres2play; 02-08-2015 at 02:15 PM.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 02:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
standard 50mm lens is fine... the CRI probes main market is scientific application so they have lots of (optional) features that you may not need for display calibration... in a perfect world you would try to match the spot size of your colorimeter...

there won't be "direct contact" with the CR-250RH as the rubber hood in front of the meter prevents that...

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Thanks.


Sorry to be blunt, but is the CR-250 in Klein K10-A territory in terms of performance. Will it out perform the i1Pro2? I'd appreciate some feedback from the few owners out there. I need to make a decision by tonight.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Thanks.


Sorry to be blunt, but is the CR-250 in Klein K10-A territory in terms of performance. Will it out perform the i1Pro2? I'd appreciate some feedback from the few owners out there. I need to make a decision by tonight.
CR-250 is a spectro not a colorimeter, so no sense comparing it to the K10. CR-250 outperforms the i1Pro.

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 03:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Oops, meant JETI 2011.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 04:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Oops, meant JETI 2011.
the only way to know is to compare both the CR-250 and the Jeti to a superior reference source in terms of accuracy - repeatability is another (very important) characteristic...

FSI has run all of these tests in detail and they were very, very pleased with the CR-250...

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-08-2015, 05:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Thanks IronMike, I'll look at their return policy and make a decision.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-09-2015, 10:15 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1531 Post(s)
Liked: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
Jim, u always need to (for best accuracy), that will never change - for any display technology (not just Plasma) as these tables are not done on your particular display...

what can "help" (if u don't have a good spectro) is, if the Plasma tables were done on the same brand as ur TV, e.g. Panasonic VT series... contact CRI and ask them which TV brand they used to create the tables...

- M
Just a heads up for anyone interested in the CR-100 colorimeter and its plasma tables. Per Colorimetry Research, the plasma table is based off of a Panasonic VT-60.

Hey Mike. That was a good idea about contacting them.

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post
Just made a video to give you an idea of the meters speed.....very K-10 like.

CR-100 Test

Later
RayJr

It's in contact here, correct?
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rayjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 1,843
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Send a message via AIM to Rayjr Send a message via Yahoo to Rayjr Send a message via Skype™ to Rayjr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
It's in contact here, correct?
Yes it is.


RayJr
Rayjr is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 12:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Okay, thanks.


I hope to meet with David Mackenzie or Kevin Miller at Value Electronics to see what they think of these reference devices when they arrive.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
I can do 125 point calibration with my Mini3 and i1D3, but now with this faster meter, I want to try a 17^3 LUT. How can I do this without having to buy a new Lumagen?

Last edited by Pres2play; 02-10-2015 at 07:14 PM.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I can do 125 point calibration with my Mini3, but now with this faster meter, I want to try a 17^3 LUT. How can I do this without having to buy a new Lumagen?
eeColor - and u would then do a 65^3 LUT... ;-)

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Doable with ChromaPure?

Wait, 65^3???
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Doable with ChromaPure?

Wait, 65^3???
welcome to 2012 !

65^3 in home theater... and much cheaper than Lumagen, but the eeColor is NOT a VP, it is a straight LUT box...

not sure if CP supports the eeColor format...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Well, I've known about the eeColor box, but I never gave it much thought. Found 5 cube LUT too lengthty with i1D3.

How do I incorporate in the chain? Sorry, I know I should be seeking out the appropriate thread, but I want to order this, like, tomorrow.

Last edited by Pres2play; 02-10-2015 at 07:41 PM.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Well, I've known about the eeColor box, but I never gave it much thought. Found 5 cube LUT too lengthty with i1D3.
well, there is a difference in logic here...

with the Lumagen Mini, u (usually) profile way more points than is actually used in the LUT... with 65^3 LUTs u (obviously) don't do that, u profile as much as u can and the CMS (LS|CM|Argyll) will calculate the points...

obviously way more control, much better cal... also: now u need a good CMS with a great color engine (to calculate all these points and a few other things)...

and we've done LUTs for eeColor with the i1D3 in the past... no problem...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 07:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post
well, there is a difference in logic here...

with the Lumagen Mini, u (usually) profile way more points than is actually used in the LUT... with 65^3 LUTs u (obviously) don't do that, u profile as much as u can and the CMS (LS|CM|Argyll) will calculate the points...

obviously way more control, much better cal... also: now u need a good CMS with a great color engine (to calculate all these points and a few other things)...

and we've done LUTs for eeColor with the i1D3 in the past... no problem...

- M
Wasn't aware of this. I have a lot of reading to do tonight.
Pres2play is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 08:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Iron Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Wasn't aware of this. I have a lot of reading to do tonight.
all done with LS... I think back then we profiled a 17^3 so we sampled roughly 5,000 points... with Avg LLH on it took (if I remember correctly) 6.5 hours... results were pretty good...

nowadays with the K10-A I sample 11,000 points (with an additional pattern delay if the display is Plasma) and it takes 1.5 - 2 hours... 2.5 hours with the extra pattern delay for Plasma TVs...

CR-100 will be 15-20 mins slower than that (for that patch count)...

- M

calibration & profiling solutions: Lightspace, Spaceman, Calman, Argyll, ColorNavigator, basICColor
profiling & calibration workflow tools: Display Calibration Tools
meter: CR-250, Klein K-10 A, i1Pro, i1D3
AVS thread: Lightspace & Custom Color Patch Set & Gamma Calibration on Panasonic 65VT60
Iron Mike is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 09:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,183
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1531 Post(s)
Liked: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Well, I've known about the eeColor box, but I never gave it much thought. Found 5 cube LUT too lengthty with i1D3.

How do I incorporate in the chain? Sorry, I know I should be seeking out the appropriate thread, but I want to order this, like, tomorrow.
I don't think Chromapure supports the eecolor box. You'll have to use Calman, Light Illusions, or Argyl. Additionally, the eecolor box doesn't do 3D or 4K.

Also, you really need to be sure that your display benefits from a 3D LUTs. Not all do.

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)

Last edited by JimP; 02-10-2015 at 09:19 PM.
JimP is offline  
Old 02-10-2015, 09:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 285
Is the additional pattern delay needed with OLED displays?

You say the eeColor box is not a VP. What happens to Lumagen? Can you explain the hookup? Is it BD player>Lumagen>eeColor box>display?
Pres2play is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off