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Old 09-01-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
If you are interested in calibration, then read read read. ask questions and
experiment.
I very much am, and I will do exactly that.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by umass66 View Post
Then watch some reference material on blu ray and see if it matches the written description ( ie lady's skin is very pale, etc ).
When you say to check out reference material, do you mean BluRay review sites? How do I know if I can trust their setup to be accurate?
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
When you say to check out reference material, do you mean BluRay review sites? How do I know if I can trust their setup to be accurate?
What i meant was reference material on blu ray movie watched by others ( especially calibrators ) on avs forums with a written description on how they should look like. It is very subjective.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by umass66 View Post
What i meant was reference material on blu ray movie watched by others ( especially calibrators ) on avs forums with a written description on how they should look like. It is very subjective.
Ok, I see. Didn't know there were any of those here. Cool. I'll have to dig around for some but I'm not likely to have any of the BluRays used for testing.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Question with regards to hertz, fps, etc... which I may be confusing as I come to a better understanding of all this. Tell me if I've got this right:

I'm running a BluRay movie, on my PS3, via HDMI, but to my current CRT-HD before setting up the Plasma (which arrived this morning ). Info on the CRTHD says I'm at 720p - 60Hz. I'm not getting 24hz on this TV because 24 doesn't divide evenly into 60, so the TV is naturally doing a 3:2 pulldown. Have I got that right?

So, when I set up my Plasma this afternoon, which can reach 600Hz, what can I expect to happen with the same output signal?
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:30 AM
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hz or refresh rate.
your new TV will support many resolutions and "refresh"/ hz.

when you connect with the PC it will give you a list of supported hz., resolutions, and type of scanning.
like either "progressive or interlaced.". hence the "P" after 1080P,24P 720P or "i" after 1080i 480i.

where that can be important is when you don't match whatever source you will use, cable box or Bluray.

there are reported subtle grayscale differences between rates on plasma.
Not all brands or models.

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Old 09-04-2014, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
hz or refresh rate.
your new TV will support many resolutions and "refresh"/ hz.

when you connect with the PC it will give you a list of supported hz., resolutions, and type of scanning.
like either "progressive or interlaced.". hence the "P" after 1080P,24P 720P or "i" after 1080i 480i.

where that can be important is when you don't match whatever source you will use, cable box or Bluray.

there are reported subtle grayscale differences between rates on plasma.
Not all brands or models.
Ok, thanks. Yes, I'm quite familiar with interlaced and progressive and also resolutions. I just didn't know if 24hz was something ONLY available on plasmas displaying bluray. I suppose if I use optical for audio, there is no difference between HDMI and component which I use now for video. I ask because due to only having one HDMI port on the CRTHD, I have everything set up for component video.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Ok, thanks. Yes, I'm quite familiar with interlaced and progressive and also resolutions. I just didn't know if 24hz was something ONLY available on plasmas displaying bluray. I suppose if I use optical for audio, there is no difference between HDMI and component which I use now for video. I ask because due to only having one HDMI port on the CRTHD, I have everything set up for component video.
no, 24P is a BluRay HD rate and found on all types of 1080 panels.

I am not sure component will run at 24P.

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Old 09-04-2014, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
no, 24P is a BluRay HD rate and found on all types of 1080 panels.
I am not sure component will run at 24P.
And to the best of your knowledge can a 720p signal run at 24? I would imagine resolution has nothing to do with refresh rate.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
And to the best of your knowledge can a 720p signal run at 24? I would imagine resolution has nothing to do with refresh rate.
it does. 720P is 60hz as is 1080P.
1080i is 30hz
component will max at 1080i
it has to do with bandwidth.

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Old 09-04-2014, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
it does. 720P is 60hz as is 1080P.
1080i is 30hz
component will max at 1080i
it has to do with bandwidth.
Ok, interesting. I guess the question I'm striving to ultimately understand is... will I get 24p from a bluray played on my plasma (It's a 720p/1080i TV) using HDMI? Or is the lack of 1080p going to impede that?
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Ok, interesting. I guess the question I'm striving to ultimately understand is... will I get 24p from a bluray played on my plasma (It's a 720p/1080i TV) using HDMI? Or is the lack of 1080p going to impede that?
HDMI 1.xx supports up to 1080P at 60hz.

I am surprised your TV is 1080i. I thought for a number of years that all are 1080P.
except those specific 720P rated

I would guess a 1080i would support 24P.
over HDMI.

Read your manual, all modes should be listed.

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Old 09-04-2014, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
HDMI 1.xx supports up to 1080P at 60hz.
I am surprised your TV is 1080i. I thought for a number of years that all are 1080P.
except those specific 720P rated
I would guess a 1080i would support 24P. over HDMI.
Read your manual, all modes should be listed.
This one, I'm 99% sure is only progressive at 720.
The manual isn't great. I don't see specific TV resolution specs: http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE43H4500AWXXU
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
This one, I'm 99% sure is only progressive at 720.
The manual isn't great. I don't see specific TV resolution specs: http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE43H4500AWXXU
it is a 720P tv.
so it will accept 1080 and down convert.
when I say P is 60hz and i is 30, that is for USA broadcast standards.
Cable, over the air, DVD/Bluray.

you are in Europe? so stuff is 50hz I believe.
the manual says 1080P over component. interesting.
I don't know what your country uses for hz.
I know 50hz is what the electricity runs at.
I thought you were in the USA. My mistake.

My 1080P will accept from 24, 29,30,50,59,60hz at interlaced or progressive and display at 1080P. that is the TVs native state.

yours will accept quite a few different hz and reso but it will display at its
native 720P.
So I guess you will have to look up what hz your equipment runs at that will feed a picture to your TV.

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Last edited by CalWldLif; 09-04-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
when I say P is 60hz and i is 30, that is for USA broadcast standards.
Cable, over the air, DVD/Bluray.
Why do the US and Europe retain different broadcast standards? It obviously has nothing to do with Hz of frequency? Or does it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
My 1080P will accept from 29,30,50,59,60hz at interlaced or progressive and display at 1080P. that is the TVs native state.
I need to read something that explains where all these refresh rates originally came from and why so many of them exist. 59 and 60 for example make no sense to me. Why both so close? There must be a history of this that explains where the frequencies came from. I know about 29(29.97), 50 because we had them in the PAL-NTSC days. But the others are confusing me.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Why do the US and Europe retain different broadcast standards? It obviously has nothing to do with Hz of frequency? Or does it?

I need to read something that explains where all these refresh rates originally came from and why so many of them exist. 59 and 60 for example make no sense to me. Why both so close? There must be a history of this that explains where the frequencies came from. I know about 29(29.97), 50 because we had them in the PAL-NTSC days. But the others are confusing me.
based off electricity cycles.
USA is a 60 cycle electricity grid.
Europe is 50 cycles.

since the US Edison set that, ask why Europe went 50 instead of 60.

Anyway, I have a vague memory of 24P being an issue in Europe because it doesn't go into 50 cycle electric.

29 and 59 are just a tolerance from 60/30.
Maybe a ruminant of having to satisfy Europe 50 cycles.
Don't know, if I never hooked up with a PC, I would not have known what my TV would accept.

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Old 09-04-2014, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
based off electricity cycles.
USA is a 60 cycle electricity grid.
Europe is 50 cycles.
since the US Edison set that, ask why Europe went 50 instead of 60.
Anyway, I have a vague memory of 24P being an issue in Europe because it doesn't go into 50 cycle electric.
29 and 59 are just a tolerance from 60/30.
Maybe a ruminant of having to satisfy Europe 50 cycles.
Don't know, if I never hooked up with a PC, I would not have known what my TV would accept.
Cool, thank you. You've been very helpful.
I'll try the bluray player with components and see if I can get 24p from a disc at 720p on the TV. Obviously 1080i won't work.
Then I'll do the same with HDMI. To be honest, I run audio through optical so this is just to finally see what 24p looks like for the first time.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Cool, thank you. You've been very helpful.
I'll try the bluray player with components and see if I can get 24p from a disc at 720p on the TV. Obviously 1080i won't work.
Then I'll do the same with HDMI. To be honest, I run audio through optical so this is just to finally see what 24p looks like for the first time.
my only motive for bringing up the hz refresh and scan rate was to
inform you that it is best to calibrate for the hz and scanrate you will be using.
since you were going to use a pc, you can easily set all that.
you also should be aware that colorspace can also affect a calibration.

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Old 09-04-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
It is best to calibrate for the hz and scanrate you will be using.
since you were going to use a pc, you can easily set all that.
Ok, good reminder. I need to look into that for sure. I'll be using CalMan when the time comes. I've done a lot of reading and seen some good videos online and feel really confident now about it. But I hadn't, I admit, thought about the Hz and scanrate with respect to calibrating. I also am still trying to understand the difference in greyscale testing with the windowed and non-windowed slides.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Ok, good reminder. I need to look into that for sure. I'll be using CalMan when the time comes. I've done a lot of reading and seen some good videos online and feel really confident now about it. But I hadn't, I admit, thought about the Hz and scanrate with respect to calibrating. I also am still trying to understand the difference in greyscale testing with the windowed and non-windowed slides.
there should be no noticeable difference in scanrate o colorspace,
BUT should be ain't always so.
Especially with Plasma.And you have a Plasma. While the reported issues were with Panasonics and you have a Samsung;
I have read threads about plasmas recording different grayscale values at different hz and personally fought calibrating my TV until getting a PC to feed patterns.
And I discovered that 40-50 stimulus and down to 0 stim showed
a different color temp depending on hz fed the TV.
I also read where some Plasmas had color shifts depending on the colorspace.

All these issues should not happen but did.

since you have a plasma, I just wanted to inform you so you could use the info if needed.

As far as patterns.
do not use fields. They are full screen and will cause the TV to be too bright and the voltage/screen limiter will kick in and skew the readings.Use windows.
windows are anywhere from 1% to maybe 18% at the most of the screen.
which specific size is debatable and often TV brand has an influence on agreed upon size.
Then there is the compromise between full screen and windows, the APL pattern.
APL is a windowed pattern surrounded by a full field of a different brightness.
the window and field is averaged together to get an Average Picture Level.
This APL value is also debated. 20 to30 % is a couple typical values.

so for your model and make, you can see what others found good to use.

some swear by APL at @22 percent others that 10-14 percent windows are the best.

One thing that is true, Plasmas can mess with your head.

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Old 09-04-2014, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post
so for your model and make, you can see what others found good to use.
Problem is, NOBODY else seems to have bought a TV from this line. At least nobody on the forums I'm looking at.
I'll have to dive into all this window/non-window, APL, etc when I get to calibration. This was the video I watched by the way. It was fantastic! Check it out. Long, but explained everything to me step by step.

Last edited by tinpanalley; 09-04-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Problem is, NOBODY seems to have bought a TV from this line. At least nobody on the forums I'm looking at.
I'll have to dive into all this window/non-window, APL, etc when I get to calibration. This was the video I watched by the way. It was fantastic! Check it out. Long, but explained everything to me step by step.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqWd8qs9YAk
saw it a while ago.
it was a nice overview.

just do not use full fields.
good luck

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Old 09-05-2014, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Goodness, I may have to just throw slides up for the first 200 hours. Outside of movies, I can't find anything among what I watch that doesn't cause problems. The only TV I watch is UK dramas and documentaries which all have either a BBC or ITV transparent station ID in the corner or sports which have fixed chyrons and scoreboards. Even half of my movie watching would consist of 4:3 classic films. And even with contemporary films, with so many studios going beyond the Academy ratio, lots of things are letterboxed on 16X9 screens.

Also, out of the box, I immediately set my new TV to Movie and Warm2 and I was a bit alarmed at its brightness. Turning the cell light down to 25-30% helped. I know this is all relative to the room and the conditions. It was late but we did have our living room lights on. Anyway, just something I thought I'd mention. Can't wait to do a proper calibration to see where the colour levels are.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinpanalley View Post
Goodness, I may have to just throw slides up for the first 200 hours. Outside of movies, I can't find anything among what I watch that doesn't cause problems. The only TV I watch is UK dramas and documentaries which all have either a BBC or ITV transparent station ID in the corner or sports which have fixed chyrons and scoreboards. Even half of my movie watching would consist of 4:3 classic films. And even with contemporary films, with so many studios going beyond the Academy ratio, lots of things are letterboxed on 16X9 screens.

Also, out of the box, I immediately set my new TV to Movie and Warm2 and I was a bit alarmed at its brightness. Turning the cell light down to 25-30% helped. I know this is all relative to the room and the conditions. It was late but we did have our living room lights on. Anyway, just something I thought I'd mention. Can't wait to do a proper calibration to see where the colour levels are.
Was looking thru the manual you linked above. Pretty amazing calibration adjustments for a lower tier tv. incredible value.
Do the following.
Put in movie mode with warm2
cell light ( put to max value. It is not a useful adjustment )
Use disc and set brightness, color & tint ( use the blue only mode with test disc ) and sharpness.
For now set contrast to taste.

After about 100-200 hrs get a meter.
It has both a 2 and 10 point grayscale adjustment allowing very precise grayscale and gamma adjustment.
If you are brave lookup pot tweaking samsung tv for better blacks.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Was looking thru the manual you linked above. Pretty amazing calibration adjustments for a lower tier tv. incredible value. Do the following. Put in movie mode with warm2
cell light ( put to max value. It is not a useful adjustment )
Honestly, cell light to max is way tooo bright for my eyes. It's crazy bright. I have it at about halfway right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umass66 View Post
After about 100-200 hrs get a meter.
It has both a 2 and 10 point grayscale adjustment allowing very precise grayscale and gamma adjustment.
If you are brave lookup pot tweaking samsung tv for better blacks.
I totally plan to use my meter after 150 hours.
I'm not brave and I've heard messing with pot tweaking can cause problems. The blacks already blow me away and I haven't even calibrated yet.
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:49 PM
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I'm not brave and I've heard messing with pot tweaking can cause problems. The blacks already blow me away and I haven't even calibrated yet.
I have to second what you said about the pot tweaking, not for the faint of heart.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
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Honestly, cell light to max is way tooo bright for my eyes. It's crazy bright. I have it at about halfway right now.

I totally plan to use my meter after 150 hours.
I'm not brave and I've heard messing with pot tweaking can cause problems. The blacks already blow me away and I haven't even calibrated yet.
Just finished pot tweaking a LG 60PB6900 plasma tv for my brother. Blacks are slightly better. Not even close to my pioneer kuro for black levels. no pixel misfires.
It is the contrast control that determines light output. try maxing cell light and then lowering contrast control to acceptable level.
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umass66 View Post
Just finished pot tweaking a LG 60PB6900 plasma tv for my brother. Blacks are slightly better. Not even close to my pioneer kuro for black levels. no pixel misfires.
It is the contrast control that determines light output. try maxing cell light and then lowering contrast control to acceptable level.
Just beginning calibrating today. Using the AVCHD disc, Brightness, Contrast, Colour, and Tint were all perfect out of the box at Movie and Warm2. But the sharpness was harder to figure out. It's set at 20 but I don't see any difference between 10 - 60 so maybe I need a different pattern for that?
I'm going to begin using Calman with my meter now. Just to play with things. Looking forward to this!
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You might do some experimentation with the cell light setting, it does serve a purpose on some of the newer Samsung plasma's. If having it at settings other than 20 negatively impacts your greyscale stick with that setting. But I know on the F8500 at least the recommendation was to use cell light to alter light output not contrast. Just food for thought, Calman is great software hope all goes well for you

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Old 09-16-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
You might do some experimentation with the cell light setting, it does serve a purpose on some of the newer Samsung plasma's. If having it at settings other than 20 negatively impacts your greyscale stick with that setting. But I know on the F8500 at least the recommendation was to use cell light to alter light output not contrast. Just food for thought, Calman is great software hope all goes well for you
Thanks. What I'm finding, because I'm using my PS3, my only bluray player, it has to be set to SuperWhite output to see anything above 235 flashing. That's making it tough to know where the contrast should be. But 90 looks decent. The only then is that at 90, having the cell light at max is painfully high. It actually looks like its hurting the TV, and my eyes in the process.
I'm currently sifting through the material I have (PDFs, sites, forum threads, YouTube videos ,etc) for a good CalMan step by step for calibration. If you guys knwo of one, I'd love to hear it.
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