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post #1 of 109 Old 06-20-2015, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Beginner - Calibration of Samsung JU7000

It took a while, but my inputs are fixed so I can finally start with the real calibration.
The screen itself is a Samsung 55JU7000. Perfect screen so far, but un-calibrated. I have already enabled cal night and cal day mode. Idea is to have both modes set-up so I can choose.

First step was that I disabled all options. Like dynamic contrast, black level etc.

I am using the AVS 709 Blu-ray.

So I started with brightness and contrast.
For those struggling with brightness, contrast & backlight settings on LCD's

According to this post I started with brightness. Backlight is up to max and I have set it according the explanation.
Next is contrast. Tried to use the white clipping but as mentioned in the above topic this does not make sense because it is not working.
Then with the help of the meter (i1D3) Backlight is down to min and 100% white is on.
In colorHCFR I try to find the best setting for contrast, but as I am looking at the bars I do not see 1 of them drop significantly.
On an other forum I found that Samsung in specific modes might just have 100% percent without problems.

So my first question right now is:
- Measuring discoloration you look in HCFR to RGB bars (with percentages). If there is no significant drop (what is significant?). Do you put the contrast to 100?

Thank you all for helping already.
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post #2 of 109 Old 06-20-2015, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
So my first question right now is:
- Measuring discoloration you look in HCFR to RGB bars (with percentages). If there is no significant drop (what is significant?). Do you put the contrast to 100?

Thank you all for helping already.
If you don't see any discoloration or clipping above level 235 then your contrast is not limited so set it for a comfortable viewing level. Typically 100-120 cd/m^2 for a dim environment up to anything you want in brighter environments.
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post #3 of 109 Old 06-20-2015, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
If you don't see any discoloration or clipping above level 235 then your contrast is not limited so set it for a comfortable viewing level. Typically 100-120 cd/m^2 for a dim environment up to anything you want in brighter environments.
How does that relate to the backlight setting. That was "advised" to control the cd/m^2
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post #4 of 109 Old 06-20-2015, 07:56 AM
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It's probably preferable to have contrast at or near max, which uses all available processing codes, and then use the backlight to get the level of light output you want.
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post #5 of 109 Old 06-20-2015, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Okey, in my case is then contrast at 100

According to this thread:
CalMAN 5 Tutorial for Novice Calibrators

Backlight to:
Bright Room: 50-60 fL -> CAL-DAY
Dim Room: 40-50 fL -> CAL-NIGHT

Theater Room: 30-40 fL
Theater Room projector: 14-30 fL **

Thanks now I can continue to the next step.
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post #6 of 109 Old 06-22-2015, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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After a couple of days playing with the settings I have come across a new question. I have now been able to set contrast, back-light and brightness. Furthermore I am able to make a 10 point calibration on gray-scale.
However I found that I could not find a clear walk-through on steps to take for a complete calibration and when to adjust gamma setting in the tv. So underneath I have written an order I think is correct though I would like to hear if this is correct:
  1. Brightness
  2. Contrast
  3. Color
  4. Tint
  5. 10 Point Gray-scale
  6. Primary & Secondary colors
  7. Sharpness
(Of course the list is iterative)

What I am missing is when to adjust the gamma control. During mt 10 point grey-scale I noticed that a lot of the adjustments needed to make were in extremes. E.g. 80% (blue +50, green -50, red -50).
I saw in my precalibration till 65% the gamma was above or equal 2.4 and after that it dropped but still above 2.25 (what I read on this forum).

And why not doing primary and secondary first, by adjusting these impacts the 10 point right, but not the other way around?

My target is 2.25 and D65.

Lots of questions, hope someone can clarify.
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post #7 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Attached I have the 4 color presets of my samsung.
Is the reason to choose warm2 because it all fits the gamma better and it has the lowest blue?

I am only able to do a 100% 10point calibration (1 run) with the warm2 setting. I have to say some offsets are extreme.

Is above consumption correct?
Can I even further correct this by the gamma offset option in the television menu?
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post #8 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Attached I have the 4 color presets of my samsung.
Is the reason to choose warm2 because it all fits the gamma better and it has the lowest blue?

I am only able to do a 100% 10point calibration (1 run) with the warm2 setting. I have to say some offsets are extreme.

Is above consumption correct?
Can I even further correct this by the gamma offset option in the television menu?
The reason to choose Warm2 is because on Samsung's it is typically the closest to the proper Color Temperature of 6503K.
As for the gamma settings, I'd measure a 100% & 60% grey pattern for each setting and then use whatever setting get's you closest to your gamma target.
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post #9 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I have attached the color graphs, but then I would pick warm1.
Could you explain based on my graph why to pick warm2 (you might analyse the graph different)
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post #10 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
I have attached the color graphs, but then I would pick warm1.
Could you explain based on my graph why to pick warm2 (you might analyse the graph different)
100% white is closest on your Warm2 graph to 6503k and that's important. The overall average looks too warm, but you should be able to dial in the average with the 10 poiunt gray-scale adjustments.
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post #11 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks John. I will make tomorrow the dataset for the 60 and 100% pattern setting.
This to look for best gamma setting.
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post #12 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Thanks John. I will make tomorrow the dataset for the 60 and 100% pattern setting.
This to look for best gamma setting.
And just so I know we are on the same page, the gamma setting in the menu you are talking about is the one where you can adjust up or down 3 clicks, correct?
If so, it's best to adjust this and the proper color temp setting (Warm2) before starting your 1-7 process above.
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post #13 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
What I am missing is when to adjust the gamma control. During mt 10 point grey-scale I noticed that a lot of the adjustments needed to make were in extremes. E.g. 80% (blue +50, green -50, red -50).
It doesn't look like you have properly adjusted the colour temperature before your 10 point grey-scale. You should first get the 80% and 20% (some prefer 70/20) points correctly to D65 using the Gain and Offset controls. After that the adjustments in the 10 point grey-scale should be relatively minor.
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post #14 of 109 Old 06-24-2015, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Reed View Post
And just so I know we are on the same page, the gamma setting in the menu you are talking about is the one where you can adjust up or down 3 clicks, correct?
If so, it's best to adjust this and the proper color temp setting (Warm2) before starting your 1-7 process above.
That is the control I am talking about (7 settings in total on that scale). This afternoon I will make the graphs (I presume from the first graph post I made?)
Btw I do all this uncalibrated (reset to default, after that disabled again all additional features).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
It doesn't look like you have properly adjusted the colour temperature before your 10 point grey-scale. You should first get the 80% and 20% (some prefer 70/20) points correctly to D65 using the Gain and Offset controls. After that the adjustments in the 10 point grey-scale should be relatively minor.
I did that before, but was wondering about a couple of things that I left it alone. I was able to calibrate without the 2 point when I selected warm, but the jumps were enormous.
If I get clear which gamma preset to use this afternoon, this evening I will redo the whole calibration.
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post #15 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
I was able to calibrate without the 2 point when I selected warm, but the jumps were enormous.
You may need to lower the Contrast first, as the graphs seem to suggest clipping of the red channel. Bring it down a few clicks and see if the upper end of the curve gets flatter..

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 06-25-2015 at 05:01 AM.
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post #16 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Attached my gamma measurements.
I had to do a complete test, since I had no clue how to do a partial test.
Anyway took only 15 mins.

Based on this I would take: gamma +1
Is my analysis correct?
2.27 on average and aim was 2.25

All before calibration of course with warm2 preset.
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post #17 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Based on this I would take: gamma +1
Is my analysis correct?
2.27 on average and aim was 2.25
Quite honestly, I would suggest using a 0 gamma setting. +1 seems to push everything too low at 100%.
Definitely do a 2 point gray-scale first. However, don't just pay attention to 70/30 or 80/20. Those are the most important to get right, but do a reading on the entire 10 points, then adjust your gains (a little at a time) to bring the highest errors down on the high end, read again and adjust the cuts to even out the low end. Do this over and over until you have a fairly flat line with low errors across the entire 10 point reading. Then go to your TV’s 10 point and make the necessary minor adjustments.
TIP: When possible, always try and subtract from the high RGB colors before adding to the lower colors. For example; if you see blue is higher than red and green, lower the blue and you should see red and green rise to meet with blue. Do this with both 2 pt and 10 pt adjustments.

(my new account on this forum isn't letting me post anything, so I had to reply to you using my old account)
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post #18 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You may need to lower the Contrast first, as the graphs seem to suggest clipping of the red channel. Bring it down a few clicks and see if the upper end of the curve gets flatter..
I agree with Dominic. However, don't lower contrast too much or you could end up with 10 point displacement issues... common with Samsungs. A setting of 95 is usually the sweet spot, but obviously should be checked.

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post #19 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Attached my gamma measurements.
I had to do a complete test, since I had no clue how to do a partial test.
Anyway took only 15 mins.

Based on this I would take: gamma +1
Is my analysis correct?
2.27 on average and aim was 2.25

All before calibration of course with warm2 preset.
Could you please post the greyscale results.
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post #20 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I had time I went ahead and did it on gamma +1.
Contrast is indeed 100, and what I see is a limited red...

Attached my graphs. Please shoot with feedback how to improve.
Besides lowering the contrast to 95 will try that anyway now and I will also do it with gamma 0.

Anything else base don the graphs?
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post #21 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phoenix_001 View Post
Could you please post the greyscale results.
There are in the post? Or do you mean data, measurement data?
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post #22 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Since I had time I went ahead and did it on gamma +1.
Contrast is indeed 100, and what I see is a limited red...

Attached my graphs. Please shoot with feedback how to improve.
Besides lowering the contrast to 95 will try that anyway now and I will also do it with gamma 0.

Anything else base don the graphs?
That Gamma graph looks bad to me. Not sure what happened, but gamma looks way too high. Am I reading that right? I have no experience with HCFR. Let us know what it looks like after a redo with 0 gamma and 95 contrast.
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post #23 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Since I had time I went ahead and did it on gamma +1.
Contrast is indeed 100, and what I see is a limited red...
The graphs look really strange to me. The RGB Levels graph (After3) looks fine from 10-90%, and yet the Luminance graph (After 4) shows an excess of red in the same range. Were they run without changing any of the settings on the TV?
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post #24 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, changed to gamma = 0 and preset = warm2

Contrast first 100 then 95 then back to 90 (measurements done with 90!)
First gray 2 point
Then 10 point

Then secondary & primary colors.

Is this better?
Furthermore how do I find the sweet spot, because apparently I am doing something wrong...

And other question, if I change the back-light level is the gray and color still usable or does it change as well?
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post #25 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
Hi, changed to gamma = 0 and preset = warm2

And other question, if I change the back-light level is the gray and color still usable or does it change as well?
The grey scale looks good but gamma is still very high.
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post #26 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliN00B View Post
And other question, if I change the back-light level is the gray and color still usable or does it change as well?
Backlight typically won't affect anything other than light output on the Samsungs.
Not sure what's causing that climb in gamma though.
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post #27 of 109 Old 06-25-2015, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Shall I post my settings?
I have no idea what to do else...

Just a thought:
Can it be that my HTPC or kodi is influencing the gamma climb?
What I could do is run the avs color patterns directly in the USB from the tv and see if there is a difference...
If there is I need to search where in the chain the problem is cause (HTPC, software or receiver)

Last edited by CaliN00B; 06-25-2015 at 09:28 PM.
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post #28 of 109 Old 06-26-2015, 04:06 AM
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Oh. Are you running the AVS disk off the htpc? I didn't see mention of that and assumed it was a stand alone BD player.
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post #29 of 109 Old 06-26-2015, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Correct, but now I would like to know what is causing this "jump".
Btw BTB and WTW is configured with correct settings on TV and HTPC so color range is intact.

However I would like to know if it could be:
- the receiver
- pulseeight LibCEC module
- HTPC itself
- Cable from HTPC to TV (one of the 3)

Investigating now how I can run the AVS patters from an USB on my samsung (never ever use this functionality, coz when you have a HTPC...)
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post #30 of 109 Old 06-26-2015, 04:29 AM
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You should try to connect htpc directly to TV (bypassing any other devices)
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