eeColor 3D LUT Box updated spec information - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 12-01-2015, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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eeColor 3D LUT Box updated spec information

So, I've been looking at the specs for the eeColor box, as I would lile to insert a 3D LUT box between my Oppo 103D and Samsung PS64F8500 and perform 3D LUT calibration using my EODIS3 (Rev 15.B) colorimeter with Calman 5 Enthusiast with Ted's disc as source material. However, I found some conflicting information regarding eeColor specs, possibly due the hardware being updated and the documentation not catching up as follows:

- HDMI: Manual and websites selling the eeColor box say HDMI 1.3. Posts in this forum say 1.4. Which is correct? There is a distinction between 1.3 and 1.4 in terms of full 3D support and ARC, which are both important to me for this set up.

- Does the eeColor box support HDMI ARC? (answer should be yes if the HDMI chips inside are true 1.4).

- 3D content support: some posts here say full 3D content support, some say only side-side and top-bottom but not frame packing (i.e. Blu Ray 3D). Since my F8500 is currently directly driven by the 103D, each eye sees full HD 1080p on that set up with titles like Avatar Blu Ray 3D. So, will playing Avatar Blu Ray 3D still work if the eeColor box is inserted in this HDMI signal chain? (answer should be yes if the HDMI chips inside are true 1.4)

- the eeColor box has (up to) 12 bit signal I/O, but internal color processing is 10 bit. I assume this is a nonissue for the set up I have above and the content it plays, even though I have deep color enabled on the Oppo (I know I know, there is not likely any commercial video content with that color range)!

Thanks and apologies if these questions have been unequivocally answered before.
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post #2 of 30 Old 12-01-2015, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
So, I've been looking at the specs for the eeColor box, as I would lile to insert a 3D LUT box between my Oppo 103D and Samsung PS64F8500 and perform 3D LUT calibration using my EODIS3 (Rev 15.B) colorimeter with Calman 5 Enthusiast with Ted's disc as source material.
Hi, While you can use eeColor as a 3D LUT Holder to your video chain, you can't use Ted's Disk as a pattern source with CalMAN for 3D LUT. This is possible only if you use Ted's Disk as a pattern source for the required 3D LUT patterns.

I have replied to another user who asked if he can use Ted's Disk as a pattern source with CalMAN here: eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs

You can Automate some measurements using CalMAN, but only for taking measuring runs of Grayscale/Saturation/Luminance/ColorChecker etc. I have posted instructions for another user that asked and was using OPPO 103D also, here: What is the best calibration disc???

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- HDMI: Manual and websites selling the eeColor box say HDMI 1.3. Posts in this forum say 1.4. Which is correct? There is a distinction between 1.3 and 1.4 in terms of full 3D support and ARC, which are both important to me for this set up.
eeColor has HDMI 1.3 Input/Output as websites and specs are writing.

eeColor will not pass 3D (packed frames) signal (it can pass 3D but only 'side by side' or 'top and bottom'), this means that you can't watch any 3D Movie from a Blu-Ray Player if you have connected eeColor to your video chain. It will display a black screen/no signal to your TV.

eeColor has no plans to update the firmware to support 3D (frame packed signal) pass throu signal. It's hardware decision to work like this. It can't be changed by firmware update. It's designed like that.

Generally the industry is leaving 3D...All 2015 TV's, Sony,Samsung etc. they stopped to provide 3d glasses to their TV's when someone will buy any 3D capable model, this is happening for all their models, their flagship don't come with free glasses inside to the box. Generally the consumer industry; they are not pay attention to this technology anymore...

But if you want to watch 3D Movies (without eeColor correction) these are some solutions for this:

i) If you have an AVR with 2 HDMI Outputs, you can connect No.1 HDMI Out to eeColor for 2D Movies and No.2 HDMI Out TV/projector directly for the 3D Movies.

ii) If you have a Blu-Ray Player with 2 HDMI Outputs, you can do similar setup connections like i), for the Main the eeColor and for the and Sub HDMI Out for directly to projector/TV.

iii) If you have a Blu-Ray Player with 1 only HDMI Output, you can connect an HDMI Splitter, where the one output will go to your Blu-Ray -> eeColor -> Display and and the other to Blu-Ray -> Display.

iv If you don't want to spend any extra money, connect Blu-Ray -> eeColor -> Display and simply remove from the signal chain the eeColor when you want to see a 3D Movie.

3D Content + Accurate Calibration is something can never happen for many reasons. Each glasses measures differently if you measure the left glass left or the right, also if you measure 3 different pair of glasses you will get different readings too.... Also you will need a very good meter with great low light performance to perform 3D LUT calibration throu the 3D Glasses, since glasses it will cut a lot of light.

Just for your info, there is not available any external LUT Horder Device larger 3D LUT Size from 17-Point Cube that can be used in HT Environment (feature HDMI In-Out) with 3D Frame Packed Signal Support. In PRO world Pandora Pluto (5000$) supports 3D Frame Packed but don't have HDMI (In-Out) Connections that can be used for HT because HD-SDI to HDMI Signal Convertors will not work because of the HDCP. For 17-Point or lower cube size you can find Lumagen Radiance Processors for example.

3D Movies are just fun and to impress only, don't expect very accurate colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- Does the eeColor box support HDMI ARC? (answer should be yes if the HDMI chips inside are true 1.4).
No, since it's HDMI 1.3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- 3D content support: some posts here say full 3D content support, some say only side-side and top-bottom but not frame packing (i.e. Blu Ray 3D). Since my F8500 is currently directly driven by the 103D, each eye sees full HD 1080p on that set up with titles like Avatar Blu Ray 3D. So, will playing Avatar Blu Ray 3D still work if the eeColor box is inserted in this HDMI signal chain? (answer should be yes if the HDMI chips inside are true 1.4)
There a lot of 3D Capable TV models with Full-HD or UltraHD panel resolutions where they will now show the full 1080p information of left/right eye when they will enter in their 3D Mode. Your specific model you have (Samsung F8500) it's a capable to display the Full-HD 3D Signal for both eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- the eeColor box has (up to) 12 bit signal I/O, but internal color processing is 10 bit. I assume this is a nonissue for the set up I have above and the content it plays, even though I have deep color enabled on the Oppo (I know I know, there is not likely any commercial video content with that color range)!
The 3D LUT correction table that is stored to the eeColor's memory has 10bit values, these are the correction values that the calibration software will save. The internal proccessing of eeColor is 16bit. It's capable to input/output 12bit per colorchannel (36bit Color). Personally I'm using eeColor to my system with a KURO, I'm feeding it with 12bit RGB(Video) and I'm getting 12bit RGB(Video) at the output.

eeColor internally is working @ RGB Space (like the most professional 3D LUT boxes of pro industry); there is zero loss in high frequency resolution for signal that will pass throu eeColor, there's no extra processing, no extra signal conversions.

If you look to my site, there is a 3D LUT Boxes / Processors Comparison page where you can see a complete list of all available 3D LUT solutions in HT market with their detailed specs.

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V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #3 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info.
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post #4 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Given that I have Calman 5 Enthusiast, what do you recommend for 3D LUT patterns (I was looking forward to using your disc, but it seems not feasible)?
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post #5 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems that there is a place for a 33^3 or 65^3 3D LUT HDMI 1.4 with a price that sits between the eeColor and Prisma, Lumagen etc..
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post #6 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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USB-UIRT useful for automation of Ted's disc with Calman?
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post #7 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted for the reply. I was confused about the HDMI ports version in the eeColor box, due to the post below, which indicated the ports in eeColor were HDMI 1.4 It is unfortunate that it won't pass framed packed 3D or ARC (ARC is used only to pass audio from the internal apps to the A/V system).

I typically relegate 3D to the gimmick category for HT due to many issues related to poor implementations for cost reasons (crosstalk being one of them), until my calibrated (internal CMS only) F8500 did such a nice job rendering Avatar in 3D (except for some flicker in bright scenes when using Cinema Smooth (24p mode)). While I realize that taping one side of the active glasses to a colorimeter and performing a calibration pretty much throws the tristim observer model out the door and makes the display profile an unknown (can be compensated by profiling against a reference spectro, however), coupled with the unit-unit and left-right variations of the glasses tint and the dimming effect they have passing light through (making low grayscale measurements difficult when using tristims such as i1D3), it was still a noticeable improvement and was a delight to watch. I was hoping a 3D LUT would do even more. From your post, I think what you are saying is that performing a 3D LUT calibration is a waste/overkill for 3D and if the user insists, perhaps a simple internal CMS calibration for 3D is sufficient and a HDMI splitter out of the Oppo takes care of matters so that 2D content is passed through the 3D LUT. I did see in a eeColor FAQ that a 1.4 was in the works, but assume from your post that the plans were abandoned. Looks like the eeColor would be ideal for my other set up (PRO-111FD). Other than the big Lumagens, any other boxes do 1.4 (Prisma is a little too expensive and the Radiance Mini3D is hard to find).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Steven9x7

Hi there...one stupid question:
Eecolor support 4K and the next Bluray player with hdmi 2.0?
Many thanks


eeColor Box has HDMI 1.4 Input-Output and supports up to 1080p resolution, it can serve any bluray movie playback for the next years.

When a new stardard will be out, we will search for a new 3D-LUT Box, but currently a 2160p In-Out 3D LUT Box with HDMI doesn't exist in any market (consumer/professional).

UHD Displays is not something new, Toshiba had available in stores a consumer UHD Display from 2011.

Example: If you go to www.imdb.com right now and open 10 tabs of your browser with the top 10 movies right now, later click to Technical Specifications and look the Cinematographic Process of each movie, 100% of the movies had mastered to Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format) (2048x1080)..... this show that we are far from 4K Movies @ Consumer HT world, since the master is still at 2K to the 99% of the 2014 movies. 4K Mastering needs more money, more time, more requirements on hardware/granding suites/more expensive VFX etc.... from the studios, so they are still prefer the 2K granding for tons of reasons.
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post #8 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
Given that I have Calman 5 Enthusiast, what do you recommend for 3D LUT patterns (I was looking forward to using your disc, but it seems not feasible)?
Solution 1) Use your PC/Notebook HDMI (as extended desktop) and CalMAN's Internal Pattern Generator will generate the required patterns. This requires some testing (with measurements and levels checking via Brightness/Contrast Patterns) to see if your PC/Notebook Output is matching your blu-ray output when you will generate the same patterns from a calibration disk.

Solution 2) Get Amazon Fire USB Stick that CalMAN connects wireless and generates the required patterns for 3D LUT. SpectraCAL says this solution has been verified that generates accurate patterns.

My disk can be used for 3D LUT pattern generation only with LightSpace, not for other software.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #9 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
USB-UIRT useful for automation of Ted's disc with Calman?
From CalMAN 5.6.0 or later that USB-UIRT is not supported.

The Automated measurement solution of Ted's disk with CalMAN doesn't use or require any USB-UIRT. Please read again the 2 links I posted to my first reply to see how it works: eeColor Processor - CalMAN - 3D LUTs & What is the best calibration disc???

You can measure with CalMAN with the Automated or Semi-Automated way:

CalMAN's 11-Point Grayscale
CalMAN's 21-Point Grayscale
CalMAN's 4-Point Saturation with 100% or 75% Stimulus Level (25 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Saturation with 100% or 75% Stimulus Level (31 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Saturation with 100% or 75% Stimulus Level (61 Colors)
CalMAN's 4-Point Luminance (28 Colors)
CalMAN's 5-Point Luminance (35 Colors)
CalMAN's 10-Point Luminance (70 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker Classic (24 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG (96 Colors)
CalMAN’s Color Checker SG Fleshtones (19 Colors)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #10 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
Thanks Ted for the reply. I was confused about the HDMI ports version in the eeColor box, due to the post below, which indicated the ports in eeColor were HDMI 1.4 It is unfortunate that it won't pass framed packed 3D or ARC (ARC is used only to pass audio from the internal apps to the A/V system).
Unfortunately this was a writing error to my 2014 post, thanks for noticing that detail to my post, I have just located and corrected it. eeColor is HDMI 1.3 Input-Output.

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post #11 of 30 Old 12-02-2015, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
Other than the big Lumagens, any other boxes do 1.4 (Prisma is a little too expensive and the Radiance Mini3D is hard to find).
Prisma supports 3D Frame packed in specs, but the CalMAN Enthousiast license doesn't support it.

It's been tested from SpectraCAL to pass 3D Frame packed using OPPO and XBox One as sources, it worked with OPPO, it didn't worked with XBox. (reference)

As a 3D LUT Processor it's supported @ CalMAN Ultimate, Studio.

As a Pattern Generator it's supported @ CalMAN Ultimate, Studio, Professional, Enthusiast, Control, and ColorChecker.

Prisma is 17x17x17 @ Full Data Levels (0-255), when you will use it for Video Levels AutoCAL it will not be 17x17x17 but 15 point.

The 17 Adjusting points @ 8 bit are: 0 16 32 48 64 80 96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208 224 240 255. (I give the example using 8-bit to be easier to read; the 3D LUT table is using 12bit values)

From these Points if someone will calibrate for Video Levels, 0 and 255 levels are not used for video transmission, they are ''Timing Reference Signals'' for Syncing, 16 is reference black.

So it's 15-Point Cube for Video if you ask for 16-235 (with 14-Point adjustable grayscale) or 16-Point if you ask for 16-255 AutoCAL (with 15-Point adjustable grayscale).

It's LUT spacing doesn't give exact control of 100% Grayscale/ Luminance of a Color, the closest adjustable points are the 95% & 102.3%

For example eeColor is 65-point for full levels but when you will use it for video levels; you will have about 55 or 56-point. The points you will not use, they are controlling the below black and above reference white.

CalMAN's 3D LUT AutoCAL with Prisma will calibrate the 16-255 Levels, not sure if it's added 16-235 using the latest CalMAN release as another option.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #12 of 30 Old 12-05-2015, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted. Looks like Prisma is out of the question. Focusing on the eeColor + Calman 5 Enthusiast option:

- Pattern Generator:Will use your Solution 2, i.e. MobileForge with Amazon Fire TV connected to one of the HDMI inputs on the Oppo 103D. That way, most of the signal chain is captured (except for the optical drive, which can only be captured by using a pattern disc). I assume that Darby on the 103D should be turned off and perhaps use Source Direct.

- In terms of accuracy of pattern generation, is there a difference between MobileForge running on the Amazon Fire TV (which now apparently does 4k) vs. Fire TV Stick? The forum shows that the MobileForge + Fire TV Stick produces sufficiently accurate patterns, but I don't find much said about the Fire TV's pattern generation performance with MobileForge. Fire TV has better hardware specs and also includes an ethernet port.

- HDMI connection. Will use your Option III: HDMI Splitter. Do you have a good quality recommendation from one I can order on Amazon in the US that automatically switches and is HDMI 1.4 compliant?

KJ
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Before dismissing the Prisma totally, it's worth knowing that we are working with the manufacturers to alter the image workflow to have the 17^3 Cube sandwiched between two RGB 1D LUT of 1024 entries, with each R,G,B component 10 bits.

This will greatly alter the Prisma's capabilities when working with LightSpace CMS.
(This is work-in-progress, but we have a bunch of Prisma's here with the new firmware for development work...)

Steve
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post #14 of 30 Old 12-06-2015, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- Pattern Generator:Will use your Solution 2, i.e. MobileForge with Amazon Fire TV connected to one of the HDMI inputs on the Oppo 103D. That way, most of the signal chain is captured (except for the optical drive, which can only be captured by using a pattern disc). I assume that Darby on the 103D should be turned off and perhaps use Source Direct.
OPPO's HDMI1 is the more transparent, it's been verified by professional (83 / 103 models) and the colorspace output 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 are bit perfect.

OPPO's manual recommended it also:''Either of the HDMI output terminals (HDMI 1 OUT and/or HDMI 2 OUT) on the rear panel of the BDP-103 can be connected to your receiver. Preference should be given to the HDMI 1 out put for video since it is the only output to benefit from the superior Marvell QDEO video processor.''

You can turn off Darbee during all pre-calibration setup / measurements and enable it back when you have finished the calibration, use Source Direct also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- In terms of accuracy of pattern generation, is there a difference between MobileForge running on the Amazon Fire TV (which now apparently does 4k) vs. Fire TV Stick? The forum shows that the MobileForge + Fire TV Stick produces sufficiently accurate patterns, but I don't find much said about the Fire TV's pattern generation performance with MobileForge. Fire TV has better hardware specs and also includes an ethernet port.
They operate the same as pattern generators, but ask from SpectraCAL to confirm it also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alali View Post
- HDMI connection. Will use your Option III: HDMI Splitter. Do you have a good quality recommendation from one I can order on Amazon in the US that automatically switches and is HDMI 1.4 compliant?
There a lot of options, all they work, just see for one device that is 1x2 HDMI 1.4 Splitter. That splitter will send image from the 1 input the 2 outputs simultaneously. You will have to select from your TV's remote which HDMI Source you will need to watch. If you have 1 HDMI Input left for example to your TV or you have a projector, you can get as an extra a HDMI 1.4 Switcher with a remote, end connect there the 2 HDMI that will come from the splitter, so you will be able to switch from the Switchers remote.

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S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #15 of 30 Old 12-10-2015, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted and Steve. Looks like will need a good splitter to make it work and will obtain Amazon Fire TV running MobileForge as TPG.

Steve: Regarding Prisma, i learned about it from Stacey Spears and was recommended as a solution that will pass Blu Ray 3D. It was dismissed simply because of lack of 3D LUT support with CM Enthusiast, as per Ted's post, in addition to the price difference between it and the eeColor Box. Unfortunately, I only found out about LS after purchasing CM (purchased an Enthusiast bundle), hence didn't have the opportunity to choose between LS and CM.
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post #16 of 30 Old 04-19-2017, 10:18 PM
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How do I get the original presets back on the eeColor Box? I have the Lightspace presets at the moment and don't want to null all the presets. Thanks.
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
How do I get the original presets back on the eeColor Box? I have the Lightspace presets at the moment and don't want to null all the presets. Thanks.
Hi, the LightSpace presets (eeColor examples LUTs) are not all null, only the LUT1 is null.

LUT 2: Gamma Lift
LUT 3: Sepia
LUT 4: De-Sat Shadows
LUT 5: Inv. S Shape
LUT 6: Film Look

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post #18 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 11:42 AM
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Hi Ted. Is it possible to restore the original factory presets? Thanks for your help.
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post #19 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Hi Ted. Is it possible to restore the original factory presets? Thanks for your help.
Yes it's possible.

First of all backup your folder C:\Program Files (x86)\Entertainment Experience LLC\TruVue eeColor Application\Data\3dtable\standard nonrgb led\General Media

1) If you want the factory OSD's also among with factory presets, re-install the TruVue eeColor Application Software, you can download from my site: http://www.displaycalibrations.com/f..._Version_2.zip

...overwrite then your custom TXT files to the folder above and then do the procedure of uploading custom tables (tick calibration values only)........

2) If you want to keep LightSpace OSD's then after re-installing....overwrite among with your custom TXT files all the RAW files also from your backup folder.

C:\Program Files (x86)\Entertainment Experience LLC\TruVue eeColor Application\Data\3dtable\standard nonrgb led\General Media, re-Do you want the factot

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post #20 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 12:02 PM
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Thank you Sir.


I'm moving on to 4K OLED display very soon. Not sure if I can still use the Color Box.
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post #21 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 12:32 PM
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Thank you Sir.


I'm moving on to 4K OLED display very soon. Not sure if I can still use the Color Box.
The most eeColor users who bought it @ 2016/2017 are LG OLED users, because calibration controls are not working as expected and there large errors at mid-low end, you will still need the eeColor there for SDR calibration.

BTW HDR calibration controls are worser from SDR controls.

Here are the links with issues in SDR performance, for more details:

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***Official B/C/E/G6P OLED Calibration Thread

***Official B/C/E/G6P OLED Calibration Thread

To a setup where the source is the OPPO UDP-203 but with eeColor also, you can buy a HD Intergral, which will work as HDMI 2.0a splitter.

So from OPPO UDP 203, the main HDMI Output it will go to HD Integral; and you will have 2 outputs....the upper will be HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 and will go directly to LG OLED, the bottom HDMI is 2.0a with HDCP 1.4, and this will go to eeColor and then to LG OLED.

So if you set from the OPPO the output setting to ''Auto UHD'', then it's outputting automatically the correct resolution....this means you don't need to change anything from OPPO settings when you want to view SDR or HDR, only you will need to change the TV Input.

Don't forget that REC.709 and SDR is something any OLED can cover 100% in gamut coverage and luminance range which movies has been mastered, so SDR is the only way to have fully calibrated 3D LUT picture, something is not possible with HDR at that moment.

See the problems with HDR calibration with 3D LUT there: eeColor processor - ArgyllCMS
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post #22 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 04:13 PM
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I see your point, you just convinced me to keep the box. LG Oled may have trouble with calibration controls, but the new Sony Oled does not have a CMS at all, so may be wise to hold on to the ee and get the HD Integral. Thanks for that great advise.
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post #23 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I see your point, you just convinced me to keep the box. LG Oled may have trouble with calibration controls, but the new Sony Oled does not have a CMS at all, so may be wise to hold on to the ee and get the HD Integral. Thanks for that great advise.
HD intergal has iOS/Android application where you can change/view it's settings via bluetooth very easily from your mobile anytime. (this doesn't required after setting the initial settings)

I know at least 3-4 users of eeColor which sold in when they moved from 1080p panels to 2160p/HDR ones but they re-order it again after some months, after realized what they are loosing, fixing only grayscale and 6 colors of CMS doesn't guarantee an accurate picture.. more than some simple Grayscale/gamut charts with low dE, the real performance can still have a lot of errors because you are correcting only a few points, away from skin tones or memory colors correction, most of the movies are using mid-low saturation/luminance range colors if you analyse movies data's, and this is away from 100% Saturation / 100% Luminance of the colors which comonly calibrated using display internal calibration controls and default calibration software workflows.

Using 3D LUT you calibrate many different levels or saturation/hue/luminance, so your performance will be reference at any color, in 8-bit systems, the allocation of 17 nodes per component (17-Point Cube) proves that is best trade off between display/meter/processor hardware / measuring time / display stability and overall quality, that's why that size is commonly used at pro industry.

The most important is the total volumetric accuracy for the best final results, consumer displays has not so linear tracking to all it's areas, so a large cube with a profiling sequence that 17 or 21-Point Cube (4.913 or 9.261 Color Points) grid-based with equal spaced RGB values will cover all potential colors equally and give the most accurate correction.

If you count down how many hours a DIY user will spend until to find out how calibration and how controls are affecting readings, to do a single 20-Point Grayscale calibration (but he has to measure a lot of times...because one adjustment is affecting near-by colors also...etc), the total of the hours spend per month for re-tweaking are more hours than the hours he will spend to watch movies.....with 3D LUT you will have to do only basic setup from your internal calibration controls, contrast/brightness/sharpness, find native gamut and pre-calibrate only 100% White.....and after the end of the measurements you can generate very quick different gamma value targets also (it takes 1-2 seconds with LightSpace a new gamma target colorspace correction generation).

All movies color graded using systems calibrated with 3D LUT, a lot of years already, until it came as solution to consumer HT market also.
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-10-2017, 04:19 AM
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I am thinking of having these LUTs:
1 - Unity
2 - Rec 709 for Blu-ray 24fps - with Cinema Smooth enabled on my plasma (changes grayscale/gamma slightly)
3 - Rec 709 for Blu-ray 24fps
4 - NTSC for DVD (Oppo converting to 24fps) with Cinema Smooth enabled
5 - NTSC for DVD
6 - PAL for DVD

All with gamma BT.1886 2.4.

Does that sound like a good/bad idea?

Edit: I am having the eecolor between my Oppo BDP-103D and Samsung 64F8500 plasma.

Last edited by rickardl; 05-10-2017 at 05:54 AM.
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post #25 of 30 Old 06-03-2017, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rickardl View Post
I am thinking of having these LUTs:
1 - Unity
2 - Rec 709 for Blu-ray 24fps - with Cinema Smooth enabled on my plasma (changes grayscale/gamma slightly)
3 - Rec 709 for Blu-ray 24fps
4 - NTSC for DVD (Oppo converting to 24fps) with Cinema Smooth enabled
5 - NTSC for DVD
6 - PAL for DVD

All with gamma BT.1886 2.4.

Does that sound like a good/bad idea?

Edit: I am having the eecolor between my Oppo BDP-103D and Samsung 64F8500 plasma.
Hi,

About NTSC and PAL DVD you have, the colorspace stay to REC.601 for Region 2 which is 576i50 and NTSC for Region 1 which is 480i60 only if you don't upscale from your player the output, I mean if you set your player to output source direct so you will get 576i50 or 480i60. If you send the native DVD resolutions to eeColor (576i50/480i60) it will only pass them as passthou (since it's not supporting these 2 resolutions when you want to apply a custom 3D LUT correction) so it will pass them as unity.

When from your player you are upscalling 576i50 to 1080i/p50 or 480i60 to 1080i/p60 then the player is converting the PAL/NTSC to REC.709, so since eeColor is supporting 720i/p or 1080i/p, you can have your custom 3D LUT corrections loaded to these resolution.

I'm suggesting you to use one 3D LUT correction slot with Power Law Gamma 2.2 for older movies, 2.35 for not so old, 2.4 for latest,

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post #26 of 30 Old 06-11-2017, 07:25 PM
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My box has suddenly stopped responding to the remote, and I don't mean just the little remote, but even my Harmony that has worked flawlessly with it. It's now stuck in C1 and I can't get it to respond to any changes whatsoever. I've tried unplugging it, I've tried turning it off and on again, and still no response. Any ideas?

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Duh. Sorted. Kind of embarrassed. I put in a DVD for the first time in ages... minimum res for the eeColor to work is 720p

LG OLED55C6T 4K HDR TV, Yamaha RX-A2050 Receiver, Q Acoustics 3010, 3050, 3070 and 3090 speakers, Yamaha YST-SW030 rear sub, Sony BDP-S6500 Blu ray, LG UP970 UHD, Fetch TV Mighty, IQ2HD, Apple TV Series 4, Pioneer CLD2730K laserdisc, eeColor LUT+Lightspace HTL+i1Display Pro and DreamScreen.
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post #28 of 30 Old 06-12-2017, 12:47 AM
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Duh. Sorted. Kind of embarrassed. I put in a DVD for the first time in ages... minimum res for the eeColor to work is 720p
Hi, I have posted about this 2 posts above, when you send 576i/p or 480i/p, you can't load any correction (the remote is not working), eeColor will only bypass the signal.

I was about to give you some ideas about how to solve that problem you had but you figured out sooner what happened so all fine now.

Generally it's extremely rare to see a hardware failure for eeColor units.
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It was the first time I'd noticed it not working. It was obvious it wasn't because it had LUT1 flash up initially, and I only use that with my cable box which for some reason responds really bad to processing with the eeColor and ends up with massive clipping at the white end and skies in particular end up a blocky mess. As it's only cable that happens with, and not FTA, DVDs, bluray or AppleTV it has to be the source.
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post #30 of 30 Old 06-14-2017, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
When from your player you are upscalling 576i50 to 1080i/p50 or 480i60 to 1080i/p60 then the player is converting the PAL/NTSC to REC.709, so since eeColor is supporting 720i/p or 1080i/p, you can have your custom 3D LUT corrections loaded to these resolution.
I was under the impression that when players (up)converts DVDs ( 576 or 480) to 1080, they simply do the upscaling (higher resolution) and not any conversion of colorspace?
Which is why I planned to have different LUTs but if that is not needed...
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