The Official ChromaPure 3 thread - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 1237 Old 05-30-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
Hi Dominic:
Finally, after too many and frustration attempts, I was able to get a good calibration with dE for colors to be within specs. The trick I found with the JVC X75 to get the primary and secondary colors to behave correctly is not to touch the gains and offset values under color temp at all; just using the adjust RGB in the custom gamma to dial in the grey scales/gamma and use the CMS very very light, don't adjust any values (Hue, Saturate and Brightness) with more than a few clicks in any direction. I'm somewhat happy with the result now, but I will go back and adjust a few things to bring out a bit more shadow details.

Regarding your question of what pattern source I'm using, I use the built-in panels generate within the Chromapure software. it's very easy to use, as you only need to hooked the laptop with HDMI output to the projector and run the window extension (two screens). The projector would display the test pattern and your laptop screen is display the software controller.
Thanks
BT
Hi BT,
Glad to hear you're making good progress.
I'm not sure why you're mentioned Gains and Offsets. They are only used to adjust the grey scale, not the primary and secondary colours.
Also, I expect the i1D3 to produce "decent" results when you use Tom's calibration. Which meter profile did you use?

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post #1052 of 1237 Old 05-30-2017, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Hi BT,
Glad to hear you're making good progress.
I'm not sure why you're mentioned Gains and Offsets. They are only used to adjust the grey scale, not the primary and secondary colours.
Also, I expect the i1D3 to produce "decent" results when you use Tom's calibration. Which meter profile did you use?
That is the very weird thing I found! Gains and offsets are for grey scale, but if I adjust any of the gain/offset setting then I can't get the primary and secondary colors to calibrate correctly. If I don't touch the gains and offsets, just using the RGB for the greyscale then when I use the CMS, I would get good calibrate result for the colors. This document from Spectracal mentioned that as well, see link below. They said "do not touch the gain and offset control". As for meter profile, I use the one that specifically setup for my i1D2 meter, the meter is also married to the chromapure software package that I ordered.

http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...QuickStart.pdf
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post #1053 of 1237 Old 05-30-2017, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
That is the very weird thing I found! Gains and offsets are for grey scale, but if I adjust any of the gain/offset setting then I can't get the primary and secondary colors to calibrate correctly. If I don't touch the gains and offsets, just using the RGB for the greyscale then when I use the CMS, I would get good calibrate result for the colors. This document from Spectracal mentioned that as well, see link below. They said "do not touch the gain and offset control". As for meter profile, I use the one that specifically setup for my i1D2 meter, the meter is also married to the chromapure software package that I ordered.
The CalMAN recommendations may be specific to their autocal software which controls the projector differently than "manual" adjustments. I didn't encounter that issue with my JVC projectors (X30/RS45, X55R/RS4810, X500R/RS4910). With manual adjustments, I had to use the gain and offset controls since the gamma controls do not include 0 and 100, only in-between points 5, 10... 90, 95. Which two points did you monitor when you adjusted the gain and offset? How did you get 100% to be D65 without touching the gain controls? Did you do a complete greyscale sweep after that?

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post #1054 of 1237 Old 05-30-2017, 05:03 PM
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Any update on the new software and disc release?

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post #1055 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 06:31 AM
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Hi Tom,

Can you please clarify how you are supposed to take dark meter readings in CP3? In your manual you are saying you have to do a dark meter reading, for instance for Display2Lt you should take it once, but you don't say exactly what you need to do? Do I need to cover the meter in the black box and go to RAW Data, select 0% pattern and take the measurement?

Video: OPPO UDP-203 -> Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 -> JVC RS400 -> Elite Screen 135'' 16:9 1.1 Max White;
Audio: Sony BDV-n9100w
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post #1056 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The CalMAN recommendations may be specific to their autocal software which controls the projector differently than "manual" adjustments. I didn't encounter that issue with my JVC projectors (X30/RS45, X55R/RS4810, X500R/RS4910). With manual adjustments, I had to use the gain and offset controls since the gamma controls do not include 0 and 100, only in-between points 5, 10... 90, 95. Which two points did you monitor when you adjusted the gain and offset? How did you get 100% to be D65 without touching the gain controls? Did you do a complete greyscale sweep after that?
Hi Dominic:
I was using the gain and offset to adjusted 20% IRE (offset) and 80% IRE (gain) per the user guide and that caused a lot of problems. Last night, I just used the Gain to adjust 100% IRE to less than 0.5% error and leave offset controls un-touch, correct the rest of the gray points using the RGB 12 points controls and everything is correct now. I can get the gray scales to be less than dE 1 and gamma to be spot on at 2.22. All Primary and Secondary colors are within dE 1.5 so it is as good as it gets. It was too late last night after the calibration, so I didn't have time to really check everything out, but so far so good. I think the picture is getting a lot better now and really pop with La La Land! Only thing I'm still puzzle is why when I reran Tom's Calibration using my iD3 meter, I didn't get the same reading as he did, not even in the same ballpark! Tom's calibration is a bit too dark and too much shadows details loss for my taste. It was a fun & frustration experience to learn the calibration art, but for now I think I will keep my calibration values and enjoy the projector until real Laser 4K is an affordable item for average consumers with limited budget like me!
Thanks for all the help!
BT
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post #1057 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 07:36 AM
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Hi All:
Can someone help me to understand the Brightness and Contrast Built-in test patterns in CP3 software? For Contrast, I think one should adjust the contrast control until the word "contrast", which is just above white, in a white background is barely readable. Brightness pattern is where I got confused, what I see is the work "BLAC" with no K; so I assumed that the K is below black (16); Letter "B" is just barely about black (17 or 18?); therefore, one should adjust the brightness control until letter "B" is barely readable and one should not see the letter "K"??? Am I correct?
Thanks
BT
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post #1058 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 07:45 AM
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Im concern about transmit data through HDMI using built in signal generator, as appear my PC video card driver interfere use its own settings and change picture quality and no way change it, CP pick that and measure wrongly.

For example the Gamma measurement is much way from target (above 2.6), when I make these changes:
Device Manager > Display adaptors > disable then enable the graphic card.
Now the Gamma look close to target, but I have make these procedures always, restarting Window not helpful.

Also every time I recheck my last calibration its look very different (LG OLED).

There are many settings in video card driver without knowing what type of affect on calibration, and CP can pick these and measure differently, so I wonder:
1– How can be certain the HDMI is sending a correct parameters including correct scale of white and black level to TV?
2- Is there tested HDMI cards for this purpose?
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post #1059 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight7m View Post
Im concern about transmit data through HDMI using built in signal generator, as appear my PC video card driver interfere use its own settings and change picture quality and no way change it, CP pick that and measure wrongly.

For example the Gamma measurement is much way from target (above 2.6), when I make these changes:
Device Manager > Display adaptors > disable then enable the graphic card.
Now the Gamma look close to target, but I have make these procedures always, restarting Window not helpful.

Also every time I recheck my last calibration its look very different (LG OLED).

There are many settings in video card driver without knowing what type of affect on calibration, and CP can pick these and measure differently, so I wonder:
1– How can be certain the HDMI is sending a correct parameters including correct scale of white and black level to TV?
2- Is there tested HDMI cards for this purpose?
Knight7m:
I have the same concerns as well! My laptop used Nvidia graphic chip, so I can go to the Nvidia control and make sure that the HDMI is using RGB Limited not Full. When Tom was calibrate my projector, I asked him regarding the different between using built-in panels and using the Bluray disc panels. He told me that as long as one use limited range for HDMI (16-235) then it should be the same.
BT
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post #1060 of 1237 Old 05-31-2017, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
Hi Dominic:
I was using the gain and offset to adjusted 20% IRE (offset) and 80% IRE (gain) per the user guide and that caused a lot of problems.
Most online guides use 20 and 80 (or 30 and 70) for two-point, but you really need to run a 0-100 greyscale sweep to check the behaviour outside the two points.

Quote:
Last night, I just used the Gain to adjust 100% IRE to less than 0.5% error and leave offset controls un-touch, correct the rest of the gray points using the RGB 12 points controls and everything is correct now.
That's how I would do it, with the JVC 12-point controls. Not sure why the CalMAN guide says not to touch gain (and offset). To me, the most important thing about calibration is to understand the behaviour of your TV/Projector, and tailor the calibration procedure accordingly, rather than just trying to blindly follow some "standard" procedures.

Quote:
I can get the gray scales to be less than dE 1 and gamma to be spot on at 2.22. All Primary and Secondary colors are within dE 1.5 so it is as good as it gets.
Glad to hear you're getting good results.
Quote:
It was too late last night after the calibration, so I didn't have time to really check everything out, but so far so good. I think the picture is getting a lot better now and really pop with La La Land! Only thing I'm still puzzle is why when I reran Tom's Calibration using my iD3 meter, I didn't get the same reading as he did, not even in the same ballpark!
You should perhaps check with Tom to make sure you're using the same settings as the ones he used during calibration.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-31-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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post #1061 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SoulOfUniverse View Post
Can you please clarify how you are supposed to take dark meter readings in CP3? In your manual you are saying you have to do a dark meter reading, for instance for Display2Lt you should take it once, but you don't say exactly what you need to do? Do I need to cover the meter in the black box and go to RAW Data, select 0% pattern and take the measurement?
To be quite honest, this feature has fallen by the wayside in v.3, because meters generally don't require it any more. The Display 2 doesn't really need one, despite some early X-Rite material suggesting that it did. The i1Pro and i1Pro 2 do need one, but this is included in the setup procedure. Neither the i1d3 nor the Spyder needs one. Professional meters either don't need one or provide support within the hardware.

The i1d3, i1Pro/i1Pro 2, Spyder 4/5, and a handful of professional meters constitute virtually all of meters we license, though we support many more.

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Last edited by TomHuffman; 06-02-2017 at 01:43 AM.
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post #1062 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 01:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
Can someone help me to understand the Brightness and Contrast Built-in test patterns in CP3 software? For Contrast, I think one should adjust the contrast control until the word "contrast", which is just above white, in a white background is barely readable. Brightness pattern is where I got confused, what I see is the work "BLAC" with no K; so I assumed that the K is below black (16); Letter "B" is just barely about black (17 or 18?); therefore, one should adjust the brightness control until letter "B" is barely readable and one should not see the letter "K"??? Am I correct?
This is a scaling issue. The K is just being cutoff. All the letters are at the same level.

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post #1063 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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You can check the black and white level setting settings using a calibration disc, which bypasses the PC's video card.

In 3.2 we will provide the full madVR test patterns that should work fine on any card.

What the vast majority of video cards do when you send a PC signal through the HDMI output is to convert the levels to video (16-235). The Built-in test patterns assume this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight7m View Post
Im concern about transmit data through HDMI using built in signal generator, as appear my PC video card driver interfere use its own settings and change picture quality and no way change it, CP pick that and measure wrongly.

For example the Gamma measurement is much way from target (above 2.6), when I make these changes:
Device Manager > Display adaptors > disable then enable the graphic card.
Now the Gamma look close to target, but I have make these procedures always, restarting Window not helpful.

Also every time I recheck my last calibration its look very different (LG OLED).

There are many settings in video card driver without knowing what type of affect on calibration, and CP can pick these and measure differently, so I wonder:
1– How can be certain the HDMI is sending a correct parameters including correct scale of white and black level to TV?
2- Is there tested HDMI cards for this purpose?

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #1064 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
I have the same concerns as well! My laptop used Nvidia graphic chip, so I can go to the Nvidia control and make sure that the HDMI is using RGB Limited not Full. When Tom was calibrate my projector, I asked him regarding the different between using built-in panels and using the Bluray disc panels. He told me that as long as one use limited range for HDMI (16-235) then it should be the same.
I also pointed out that the gamma response was almost identical when switching between the disc and the HDMI output. This would not be the case if the HDMI output was putting out the wrong levels.

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post #1065 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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ChromaPure 3.1.5 Released

ChromaPure 3.1.5 is now available. It is free for all licensed v.3 users.

It can be downloaded from our News site, which also contains the Release Notes.

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post #1066 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 04:02 AM
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[QUOTIE=TomHuffman;53378282]This is a scaling issue. The K is just being cutoff. All the letters are at the same level.[/QUOT

HI Tom:
Just to be clear, one would adjust the brightness control until the word "Black" is almost invisible with the black background?
Thanks
BT
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post #1067 of 1237 Old 06-02-2017, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btran33 View Post
[QUOTIE=TomHuffman;53378282]This is a scaling issue. The K is just being cutoff. All the letters are at the same level.[/QUOT

HI Tom:
Just to be clear, one would adjust the brightness control until the word "Black" is almost invisible with the black background?
Thanks
BT
Yes, the lowest level at which the letters are clearly visible. You can check this against a disc. Brightness and Contrast are two settings that must be made by eyeballing a test pattern.

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post #1068 of 1237 Old 06-03-2017, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
You can check the black and white level setting settings using a calibration disc, which bypasses the PC's video card.

In 3.2 we will provide the full madVR test patterns that should work fine on any card.

What the vast majority of video cards do when you send a PC signal through the HDMI output is to convert the levels to video (16-235). The Built-in test patterns assume this.

tom, will 3.2 allow us to generate 3d LUT files for madVR?
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post #1069 of 1237 Old 06-06-2017, 11:40 AM
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Is Video Processor Manual Control working in the current release for the Lumagen Pro?

Also, I would like to calibrate SDR Rec 2020 on my JVC RS57 but whenever a generated image is displayed my projector is kicked out of 4K mode and I no longer have access to CMS1 on the Lumagen. What am I doing incorrectly?

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post #1070 of 1237 Old 06-06-2017, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mskreis View Post
Is Video Processor Manual Control working in the current release for the Lumagen Pro?

Also, I would like to calibrate SDR Rec 2020 on my JVC RS57 but whenever a generated image is displayed my projector is kicked out of 4K mode and I no longer have access to CMS1 on the Lumagen. What am I doing incorrectly?
To do this select the Lumagen Radiance (not the Pro) as the signal generator (the rs-232 commands are the same) and select Rec. 2020 (but not HDR) as the as the reference gamut in the Lumagen Pro and in CP.

We currently have the Lumagen Pro setup to use 2020 and HDR together.
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post #1071 of 1237 Old 06-06-2017, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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There is one aspect of the 3.1.5 release that I was not clear about. We added support for the Radiance PRO and 2020/HDR. However, we did NOT enable auto-cal for the Radiance PRO. If you own a PRO and you want to do an auto-cal session, then select the regular Lumagen Radiance as the signal generator (the relevant serial codes are the same). This will allow you to do a 2K SDR calibration. Auto-cal for the Radiance PRO will be enabled in 3.2.

You should select the Radiance PRO if you want to perform a manual 2020/HDR calibration.

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post #1072 of 1237 Old 06-08-2017, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
To do this select the Lumagen Radiance (not the Pro) as the signal generator (the rs-232 commands are the same) and select Rec. 2020 (but not HDR) as the as the reference gamut in the Lumagen Pro and in CP.

We currently have the Lumagen Pro setup to use 2020 and HDR together.


Ok, this worked fine. I was surprised how over saturated colors were for the default Rec 2020 profile from JVC. I calibrated using 50% intensity and 50% saturation. This is the approach recommended for 2020, correct?

Mark

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post #1073 of 1237 Old 06-08-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
There is one aspect of the 3.1.5 release that I was not clear about. We added support for the Radiance PRO and 2020/HDR. However, we did NOT enable auto-cal for the Radiance PRO. If you own a PRO and you want to do an auto-cal session, then select the regular Lumagen Radiance as the signal generator (the relevant serial codes are the same). This will allow you to do a 2K SDR calibration. Auto-cal for the Radiance PRO will be enabled in 3.2.

You should select the Radiance PRO if you want to perform a manual 2020/HDR calibration.
Is there an idiots step by step guide to manually calibrate the Pro in a 2020HDR space?
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post #1074 of 1237 Old 06-08-2017, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Is there an idiots step by step guide to manually calibrate the Pro in a 2020HDR space?
Give me a day or two and I'll post a video demo.
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post #1075 of 1237 Old 06-08-2017, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mskreis View Post
Ok, this worked fine. I was surprised how over saturated colors were for the default Rec 2020 profile from JVC. I calibrated using 50% intensity and 50% saturation. This is the approach recommended for 2020, correct?
Yes.

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post #1076 of 1237 Old 06-12-2017, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Is there an idiots step by step guide to manually calibrate the Pro in a 2020HDR space?
OK, I finally got everything ready for this. Rather than post a video, I am just going to provide step-by-step instructions here. There's nothing really new about this.
  1. Uninstall 3.1.5 and install the 3.1.6 beta I just posted. This fixes some problems with the signal generator toolbar.
  2. Setup the Radiance Pro and select 50% Color Intensity.
  3. Select Rec. 2020 and HDR10 in options.
  4. From the signal generator drop down, select HDR10. Now when you generate test patterns, they will automatically be HDR10 test patterns.
  5. Open the Signal Generator Toolbar.
  6. Take Pre-Calibration Grayscale measurements.
  7. Open the White Balance module and take a 100% white reading.
  8. Use the White Balance module along with the Signal Generator Toolbar to correct grayscale errors from 5% up to about 60-70%. Above that just leave everything alone. You can also use this module to correct gamma errors. However, if you prefer use the Gamma module for that.
  9. Open the Color Management module and select 50% saturation.
  10. Set the color space to RGB.
  11. Take a series of pre-calibration measurements to establish a baseline.
  12. Put the read mode into Continuous and then use the Signal Generator Toolbar to make any necessary adjustments.
  13. Take Post-Calibration Grayscale readings, and then make any necessary adjustments.

Some notes about color calibration.
  • On my LG OLED the color dEs were mostly quite low and in those cases where they weren't, the error was undersaturation, which cannot be fixed, so I had very little to do here.
  • The nature of HDR means that 50% intensity constitutes just under 1% of the total output. One consequence of this is that the RGB values are very, very low--so low that you can't easily use the error bar chart in color management, so focus on dE values and the CIE chart instead.
  • Once you setup the necessary conditions for calibration (HDR, 2020, Radiance Pro w/HDR selected, 50%,50%) there's nothing about this that is really any different from a standard calibration session in ChromaPure, other than the RGB issue in Color Management mentioned above.
  • Currently, there's not much to do with reporting in terms of color. I haven't quite figured out what to do about color reporting for Rec. 2020/HDR. Stay tuned.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #1077 of 1237 Old 06-18-2017, 10:21 AM
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Hi Tom. Is 3D Lut for madVR in your plans?
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post #1078 of 1237 Old 06-19-2017, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Hi Tom. Is 3D Lut for madVR in your plans?
Yes.
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Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #1079 of 1237 Old 06-23-2017, 02:56 PM
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Yes.
Ah.
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post #1080 of 1237 Old 07-23-2017, 03:14 AM
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Hi everyone, just got a Sony A1 oled so getting back into the calibration game. I've got an iD3 (pro) that was last calibrated by Ricky in the U.K. about 3 years ago on the early LG oled he had then. The white seems to have far to much Blue when using said oled setting, CRT setting comes out a bit yellow, I know that the new Sony's don't use the pink antireflecting coating that lg did, is this the problem?

Sony-LCD setting seemed closest to my white expectation. Is there a setting that should work, or should I just bite the bullet and get a new meter and upgrade to Chromapure 3?

Thanks
Chris
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