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post #1 of 60 Old 12-31-2015, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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10 bit Gradient Test Patterns

There have been a lot of people asking me how they can tell if their UHD TV has a 10bit panel or not, so I made some 10bit Gradient test patterns. These will show discreet steps on an 8bit panel.

The test patterns are 2160p 10bit HEVC gradient grayscale patterns. There are two different clips, one is a gradient from black to white, and the other is a gradient from black to about 75% gray.

The clips are only 10 seconds long, so you might need to pause them so you can get a good look up close to the screen.

I have included both .MP4 and .TS versions for compatibility reasons. Both versions have the same elementary streams inside, they just have different containers.

Here is the link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68...ew?usp=sharing

Stacey Spears created a 2160p HEVC Rotating 8bit and 10bit Quantization Artifact test pattern. He gave me permission to post it here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68...ew?usp=sharing
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post #2 of 60 Old 01-01-2016, 08:58 AM
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I tried this on my Sony 850C which I thought was supposed to be an 8bit panel. But I don't see discreet steps.

It looks very smooth.

This was using a USB drive connected to the TV. And using the TVs default video player app, as well as the VLC video app and the Archos video app.

EDIT: I just tried the same files from my VTEN media player going through one of the HDMI inputs. Playing it that way I do see discreet steps.

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post #3 of 60 Old 01-01-2016, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I tried this on my Sony 850C which I thought was supposed to be an 8bit panel. But I don't see discreet steps.

It looks very smooth.

This was using a USB drive connected to the TV. And using the TVs default video player app, as well as the VLC video app and the Archos video app.

EDIT: I just tried the same files from my VTEN media player going through one of the HDMI inputs. Playing it that way I do see discreet steps.
Just adding what Aaron posted on this in the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt
After some quick research the VTEN supposedly only outputs 10bit at up to 30P and only with 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 video(since it's only HDMI 1.4). And you can't force it to those. And with the auto video output it's apparently outputting 4:4:4 which it will only do 8 bit with.

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post #4 of 60 Old 01-02-2016, 07:04 PM
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How do we know that the gradient was smooth because of a 10-bit panel and not because of dithering?

This is a concern with the 850C.
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post #5 of 60 Old 01-03-2016, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
How do we know that the gradient was smooth because of a 10-bit panel and not because of dithering?

This is a concern with the 850C.
Also the 850C shows more of the Rec 2020 color space than some sets with 10 bit panels or OLED.

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post #6 of 60 Old 01-03-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Also the 850C shows more of the Rec 2020 color space than some sets with 10 bit panels or OLED.
Yes, but correct me if I'm wrong. An 10-bit isn't required for WCG. Rec 2020 is just the ability to display more of the DCI space, while the panel bits just deals with the shades of color with in the displayable area of the DCI color space.

In theory couldn't you have a 12-bit panel that only displays rec.709?The Vizio M-series is a 10-bit panel that doesn't have WCG. The 850c does display better WCG then other TVs but isn't 68% below the Rec.2020 requirement?
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post #7 of 60 Old 01-03-2016, 11:11 AM
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Netflix has a test pattern series. One is for testing 10-bit panels.

https://www.netflix.com/watch/80018593
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post #8 of 60 Old 01-03-2016, 11:11 AM
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Netflix has a test pattern series. One is for testing 10-bit panels.

https://www.netflix.com/watch/80018593
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post #9 of 60 Old 01-03-2016, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
How do we know that the gradient was smooth because of a 10-bit panel and not because of dithering?

This is a concern with the 850C.
I don't think so because :

FWIW I've seen 6 bit to 8 bit B/W & color gradation tests on a Sony Bravia R450a with a 6 bit + high frc Samsung SPVA overdrive dither panel and the gradations are nowhere near as smooth as these are although it makes pretty decent 8 bit color for a 6 bit overdrive panel .

Your PC may have one of those also it's not all that uncommon outside of the more expensive monitors

The OP's 10 bit color gradient test video file played from a USB drive into the embedded Sony X850C Video Player run time app shows it to have a 10 bit panel .

Unless I'm wrong I don't believe it's an 8 bit + high frc to 10 bits overdrive panel the gradation is smooth with almost no segmentation and maybe indicative of a 10 bit panel IMO also my PC 's dGPU identifies it as a 10 bit panel .

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post #10 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
There have been a lot of people asking me how they can tell if their UHD TV has a 10bit panel or not, so I made some 10bit Gradient test patterns. These will show discreet steps on an 8bit panel.

The test patterns are 2160p 10bit HEVC gradient grayscale patterns. There are two different clips, one is a gradient from black to white, and the other is a gradient from black to about 75% gray.

The clips are only 10 seconds long, so you might need to pause them so you can get a good look up close to the screen.

I have included both .MP4 and .TS versions for compatibility reasons. Both versions have the same elementary streams inside, they just have different containers.

Here is the link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68...w?pref=2&pli=1
Excellent!
On a 920V OLED Tv it shows some gradient bars (aprox 6mm) only in the darker areas. It has started a debate whether current OLEDS are actually 10bit or if they have problems rendering at near black.

Could you possibly make a similar ramp at 8 bit for comparison?
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post #11 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
Yes, but correct me if I'm wrong. An 10-bit isn't required for WCG. Rec 2020 is just the ability to display more of the DCI space, while the panel bits just deals with the shades of color with in the displayable area of the DCI color space.

In theory couldn't you have a 12-bit panel that only displays rec.709?The Vizio M-series is a 10-bit panel that doesn't have WCG. The 850c does display better WCG then other TVs but isn't 68% below the Rec.2020 requirement?
I figured the more colors a TV can show the smoother this test would be. And I figured any 10bit panel should have been able to show more colors than an 8bit panel. But I guess this is not necessarily the case.

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post #12 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I figured the more colors a TV can show the smoother this test would be. And I figured any 10bit panel should have been able to show more colors than an 8bit panel. But I guess this is not necessarily the case.
Bit depth gives you steps in a color.

So with 8bit you get 256 steps of red, green, blue and gray.
But all 256 steps of red are exactly the same shade of red, and they could be any shade of red depending on the quality of the display.

Going to 10bit give 1024 steps. But doesn't change how much color is available.

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post #13 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 11:49 AM
 
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Bit depth gives you steps in a color.

So with 8bit you get 256 steps of red, green, blue and gray.
But all 256 steps of red are exactly the same shade of red, and they could be any shade of red depending on the quality of the display.

Going to 10bit give 1024 steps. But doesn't change how much color is available.
If I'm right ...the way I get it basically is bit depth = steps or gradients within a color space /gamut higher bit depth = more and smother steps within the color gamut /space and a wider color gamut and or color space means more colors like bt709 vs P3 DCI or rec 2020 .

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post #14 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Z1-B View Post
If I'm right ...the way I get it basically is bit depth = steps or gradients within a color space /gamut higher bit depth = more and smother steps within the color gamut /space and a wider color gamut and or color space means more colors like bt709 vs P3 DCI or rec 2020 .
Right, and those color spaces are defined by the backlight technology and the color filters used in a display.

With a wide enough gamut you may start to need more bits to make smooth transitions, but the number of extra bits isn't that much. For instance BT.709 is about 56% coverage of the uv space rec.2020 cover. So in order to cover rec.2020 with as much bit depth as 709 uses, you'd only need 9 bits. Granted for monochromatic transitions I still think we need at least 10 bits.

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post #15 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 12:41 PM
 
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Right, and those color spaces are defined by the backlight technology and the color filters used in a display.

With a wide enough gamut you may start to need more bits to make smooth transitions, but the number of extra bits isn't that much. For instance BT.709 is about 56% coverage of the uv space rec.2020 cover. So in order to cover rec.2020 with as much bit depth as 709 uses, you'd only need 9 bits. Granted for monochromatic transitions I still think we need at least 10 bits.
Cool .....I read somewhere that rec 2020 '10 bit color' is actually or was 11 bits it seemed like a legitimate technical website about LCD technology it was out of the UK ....it wasn't a forum .
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post #16 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 01:11 PM
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Netflix has a test pattern series. One is for testing 10-bit panels.

https://www.netflix.com/watch/80018593
That just takes me to their home page.

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That just takes me to their home page.


Just search Test pattern. Its under season 4.
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post #18 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 01:58 PM
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"Season 4", you mean page four don't you?

I have had those discs for some time.

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post #19 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 01:59 PM
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That just takes me to their home page.
It takes me to the test pattern and it starts playing.

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post #20 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 02:11 PM
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What type of account do you have? Sounds as it's one of those "streaming" deals.
I only have a DVD rental account.

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post #21 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 02:15 PM
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What type of account do you have? Sounds as it's one of those "streaming" deals.
I only have a DVD rental account.
That would be the reason then. It is a streaming title which you can't watch unless you have a streaming subscription.
I have the four screen UHD streaming for $7.99 a month.

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Nice if that was mentioned in the 1st place instead of 'assuming' everyone has that already. :rolleyes

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That would be the reason then. It is a streaming title which you can't watch unless you have a streaming subscription.
I have the four screen UHD streaming for $7.99 a month.
Right ...........my 55X850C plays both UHD 10 bit and HDR Netflix tests fine in the Netflix TV app presumably it's a 10 bit panel also ....no segments at all in the 10 bit gradation tests so I'm thinking its not an 8 bit + high frc overdrive panel .

OTOH if I try the HDR test on my 1440p 8 bit PC monitor in a browser it looks all washed out .
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post #24 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a split screen gradient pattern with the top half 10bit and the bottom half 8bit.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68...ew?usp=sharing
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Here is a split screen gradient pattern with the top half 10bit and the bottom half 8bit.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B68...ew?usp=sharing
Right thanks for making that one.

I tried it a few days back and got a good result on my 55x850C which makes me think it's a full 10 bit panel and not an overdrive +high frc 8 bit panel.
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10 bit Gradient Test Patterns



I tried the Netflix pattern on my Sony W900A and everything looks really smooth. Always wondered what panel Sony used. QD Vision over Twitter told me its a true 10bit but I didn't believe it. Maybe I should.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipeUout View Post
Netflix has a test pattern series. One is for testing 10-bit panels.

https://www.netflix.com/watch/80018593
I just tried this from my internal Sony TV Netflix app and a FireTV. A big difference. From the internal app it is nice and smooth. From the FireTV it isn't even close. Although it looked smoother from my Roku 4 than from the FireTV. But not quite as good as from my TV. Netflix is having issues right now on my TiVo Bolts so I can't check them out.

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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I tried the Netflix pattern on my Sony W900A and everything looks really smooth. Always wondered what panel Sony used. QD Vision over Twitter told me its a true 10bit but I didn't believe it. Maybe I should.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
XBR W900A is a real decent set IRRC . I would be surprised if it wasn't a 10 bit panel .

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Nice if that was mentioned in the 1st place instead of 'assuming' everyone has that already. :rolleyes
Nobody talks about Netflix DVD's these days.

U mean some folks have a 4K TV and no 4K Netflix ? (unless its a bandwidth issue .)the Netfix test video says 3840x 2160 right on the screen so does the other downloadable Zip file here .

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post #30 of 60 Old 01-04-2016, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I just tried this from my internal Sony TV Netflix app and a FireTV. A big difference. From the internal app it is nice and smooth. From the FireTV it isn't even close. Although it looked smoother from my Roku 4 than from the FireTV. But not quite as good as from my TV. Netflix is having issues right now on my TiVo Bolts so I can't check them out.
im going to assume that the fire tv is 8 bit, not 10 bit. i could be wrong. or i could be right.

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