R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 1004 Old 03-15-2017, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Can't wait for that disk...
Any ETA please..
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Yes , me too !


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Just a little ways out. I'm aiming towards the end of the second quarter. Remember, once authored, there is testing, editing, disc duplication, packaging, distribution and so on...Thanks!

- Ryan
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post #752 of 1004 Old 03-15-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Just a little ways out. I'm aiming towards the end of the second quarter. Remember, once authored, there is testing, editing, disc duplication, packaging, distribution and so on...Thanks!

- Ryan
Any plans to discount your early adopters?

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My P65-C1 Calibration Settings (3.3.18.1)
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post #753 of 1004 Old 03-16-2017, 06:16 AM
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Apologise in advance for bringing this up again. Tom Huffman and Kris Deering were discussing this. But is the still jury out on what exactly happens when you send a rec.2020 YCbCr pattern to a display which accepts this? Suppose one sends a full red 10-bit 940,64,64 value, but encoded as YCbCr rec.2020. You also signal to the tv this is P3 color space by virtue of the info frame.

So how do we get to the correct red on our consumer display?

1) Has the post production facility altered something to the YCbCr signal so when the display decodes it using the rec.2020 matrix, the correct RGB triplet is obtained? Ergo, a triplet different from 940,64,64. A triplet which lands on the P3 red the colorist saw. Ergo, a relative offset from the rec.2020 primaries to a point where it lands on the P3 red primary.
2) Or is the tv resposible for above?

A major point to consider is that above describes a relative offset from the rec.2020 primaries. The correct amounts of RGB you need is dependend on the tv's gamut. So if your tv cannot reach rec.2020 red (which it can't now) the relative offset would be wrong because the garmut is not large enough. Ergo, the offset would be too large.

Or does it work differently?

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post #754 of 1004 Old 03-17-2017, 10:32 AM
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@mascior - Love the purchased patterns. However it would be great if you could make the clipping patterns run-time significantly longer. By the time my JVC with Linker syncs it can be nearly a minute and by that point the black clipping patterns are almost done. Then when they complete I have to wait nearly a minute to get the UB900 menu back, then run the pattern again and wait for nearly a minute for the pattern to load. Yes I can hit Rewind as soon as it loads, and I have to, but sometimes I forget. I often will have to pause the image with the bars visible, tune the calibration, and then unpause so I can gauge the flashing. This can go on for a while so I have to remember to rewind every once in a while. Sometimes I lose track and then it finishes and I'm again waiting several minutes to get back to the main UB900 menu and start again. Ideally the clipping patterns would be 10 minutes long, or if not, then at least 5 minutes.

Also on a different note - I can't remember exactly which patterns it is, but I think it is the various HDR window patterns like a 0% pattern. When I try to load these the UB900 complains that they are not compatible and fails run them. Which is odd because the other patterns such as black/white clipping and HDR test images run fine. Any idea what the issue may be? I have the UB900 with latest firmware. If you'd like more info I can dig in tonight and tell you exactly what the problematic patterns are. Just let me know. Thanks!
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post #755 of 1004 Old 03-17-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post
All, here is a sneak peak at the "R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 UltraHD Bluray Disc". I am completely finished with the menu structure main, sub, and pop-up's. I'm currently in the the process of authoring (thanks to the great folks over at DVD Logic), linking menus with streams, and testing. Also, I created a unfinished BDMV HDR file for testing purposes and successfully burn it to disc. The disc played flawlessly within my OPPO BDP-203. Also, just as an fyi, the menu structure, unlike the actual streams, will be in 1920x1080, 8-bit, and SDR per UltraHD Bluray spec. However, the good news is, HDR stays engaged from pattern to pattern within the stream and when linked from a pop-up menu. I have attached a few of my menus below. Thank you everyone for your continued support!
Looks great Ryan! How exactly is this different from the current purchased patterns? Thanks.
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post #756 of 1004 Old 03-17-2017, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
Apologise in advance for bringing this up again. Tom Huffman and Kris Deering were discussing this. But is the still jury out on what exactly happens when you send a rec.2020 YCbCr pattern to a display which accepts this? Suppose one sends a full red 10-bit 940,64,64 value, but encoded as YCbCr rec.2020. You also signal to the tv this is P3 color space by virtue of the info frame.

So how do we get to the correct red on our consumer display?

1) Has the post production facility altered something to the YCbCr signal so when the display decodes it using the rec.2020 matrix, the correct RGB triplet is obtained? Ergo, a triplet different from 940,64,64. A triplet which lands on the P3 red the colorist saw. Ergo, a relative offset from the rec.2020 primaries to a point where it lands on the P3 red primary.
2) Or is the tv resposible for above?

A major point to consider is that above describes a relative offset from the rec.2020 primaries. The correct amounts of RGB you need is dependend on the tv's gamut. So if your tv cannot reach rec.2020 red (which it can't now) the relative offset would be wrong because the garmut is not large enough. Ergo, the offset would be too large.

Or does it work differently?
Hi Jeroen1000

Current consumer WCG displays only work within the BT2020 color gamut...so, 940,64,64 will always represent 100% BT2020 red within this gamut. Regarding the info frame and/or metadata, carrying P3 information, will get mapped to a percentage of the BT2020 color gamut.

- Ryan
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post #757 of 1004 Old 03-17-2017, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
@mascior - Love the purchased patterns. However it would be great if you could make the clipping patterns run-time significantly longer. By the time my JVC with Linker syncs it can be nearly a minute and by that point the black clipping patterns are almost done. Then when they complete I have to wait nearly a minute to get the UB900 menu back, then run the pattern again and wait for nearly a minute for the pattern to load. Yes I can hit Rewind as soon as it loads, and I have to, but sometimes I forget. I often will have to pause the image with the bars visible, tune the calibration, and then unpause so I can gauge the flashing. This can go on for a while so I have to remember to rewind every once in a while. Sometimes I lose track and then it finishes and I'm again waiting several minutes to get back to the main UB900 menu and start again. Ideally the clipping patterns would be 10 minutes long, or if not, then at least 5 minutes.

Also on a different note - I can't remember exactly which patterns it is, but I think it is the various HDR window patterns like a 0% pattern. When I try to load these the UB900 complains that they are not compatible and fails run them. Which is odd because the other patterns such as black/white clipping and HDR test images run fine. Any idea what the issue may be? I have the UB900 with latest firmware. If you'd like more info I can dig in tonight and tell you exactly what the problematic patterns are. Just let me know. Thanks!
Hi lovingdvd

I'm aware of the sync issue and the time it takes between patterns within certain projection setups. I know this makes the utilization of my patterns a little cumbersome to say the least. However, I have increased the duration of a few of my clipping patterns to help assist, but ultimately my new UltraHD Bluray version will be the only true remedy for this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Looks great Ryan! How exactly is this different from the current purchased patterns? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words. The UltraHD Bluray version of my suite, though offering the same patterns and quality, will offer numerous benefits over my current multimedia option. Including, but not limited to:
.
  1. True reference source via HDMI
  2. Better compatabily across all platforms
  3. Increased usabilty for the end user
  4. Better navigability and more!
- Ryan
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Last edited by mascior; 03-17-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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post #758 of 1004 Old 03-18-2017, 12:37 PM
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Is there any chance of getting some more verification images, especially for skin tones? Thanks.
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post #759 of 1004 Old 03-18-2017, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mascior View Post
Hi Jeroen1000

Current consumer WCG displays only work within the BT2020 color gamut...so, 940,64,64 will always represent 100% BT2020 red within this gamut. Regarding the info frame and/or metadata, carrying P3 information, will get mapped to a percentage of the BT2020 color gamut.

- Ryan
Hi Ryan. Is that mapping absolute then? Because if it is relative, it will never work right.

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post #760 of 1004 Old 03-18-2017, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Is there any chance of getting some more verification images, especially for skin tones? Thanks.
I could accommodate that request. Actually, if you have any content in mind, send it over. Thanks!

- Ryan
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post #761 of 1004 Old 03-18-2017, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jeroen1000 View Post
Hi Ryan. Is that mapping absolute then? Because if it is relative, it will never work right.
Absolute, from what I can tell...maintaining the same white point. However, a lot of metadata is completely being ignored and/or being remapped via proprietary methods, per manufacture, absolutely no standard...

- Ryan
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post #762 of 1004 Old 03-18-2017, 09:22 PM
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Ryan - The other day I posted here that there were some patterns that fail to playback on my UB900. I found them: 06-Misc Patterns->09 Different nit levels->03 10% window patterns 10,000 nit->Any of the patterns in this folder. This is with HDR engaged, UB900->AVR->JVC RS500. After the UB900 tries for a while it gives up and then comes back with an error dialog that says the title failed to play. The ones under 4000 nits and 1000 nit folders play fine.

Side note - it would be nice to have full field patterns too (not just windows) particularly for 0 and full white. Thanks.
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post #763 of 1004 Old 03-20-2017, 02:06 AM
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Can hardly wait for the disc too.
Looks promising.
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post #764 of 1004 Old 03-20-2017, 09:19 AM
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Same here!!! Will purchase as soon as available!!! Been following this thread but have not tried the available patterns yet. Will wait until the disc is available.

Thanks a LOT Ryan!

Ray

 

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post #765 of 1004 Old 03-20-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Ryan - The other day I posted here that there were some patterns that fail to playback on my UB900. I found them: 06-Misc Patterns->09 Different nit levels->03 10% window patterns 10,000 nit->Any of the patterns in this folder. This is with HDR engaged, UB900->AVR->JVC RS500. After the UB900 tries for a while it gives up and then comes back with an error dialog that says the title failed to play. The ones under 4000 nits and 1000 nit folders play fine.

Side note - it would be nice to have full field patterns too (not just windows) particularly for 0 and full white. Thanks.
@mascior - Just wanted to make sure you saw the post quoted above about the bug with these patterns and see if you had any thoughts on it. Thanks.
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post #766 of 1004 Old 03-20-2017, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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@mascior - Just wanted to make sure you saw the post quoted above about the bug with these patterns and see if you had any thoughts on it. Thanks.
Hi lovingdvd

Yes I did and it's very odd that the 1 and 4k nit level grayscale sweeps playback with no issue, but not the 10k?? What's even stranger, they're all the same exact encoding, just with different peak level metadata. However, I have seen similar issues when utilizing SEIedit to manipulate the metadata...but that typically renders the patterns completely useless across all platforms, that this is not the case here. I have completely no issues with playback on a multitude of other devices...I will have to dive into this a little more. Thanks!

- Ryan
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post #767 of 1004 Old 03-20-2017, 10:04 AM
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[quote=mascior;51643009]Hi lovingdvd

Yes I did and it's very odd that the 1 and 4k nit level grayscale sweeps playback with no issue, but not the 10k??

Exactly the case. On 3 different days/sessions I tried. No issue at all with the 1K and 4K but the 10K always just waits and waits and waits and then eventually the UB900 says something like there is a problem and this title cannot be played.

Quote:
What's even stranger, they're all the same exact encoding, just with different peak level metadata. However, I have seen similar issues when utilizing SEIedit to manipulate the metadata...but that typically renders the patterns completely useless across all platforms, that this is not the case here. I have completely no issues with playback on a multitude of other devices...I will have to dive into this a little more. Thanks!

- Ryan
I have a HD Fury Linker in the chain - tho I'm not sure that could cause it. All that is doing is stripping the HDR metadata flag out so that the JVC doesn't realize it is HDR (to prevent it from disabling the auto iris and prevent it from forcing its terrible Gamma D on us).

Do you have a UB900? If it works on yours then that is odd. If you want to send me an updated clip to try if you want to experiment I'm happy to try it for you. That said, this is low priority for me so don't worry about it now if you don't have time. I don't think I even need this pattern for anything - just mainly wanted to let you know.

Is there anyone else out there with a UB900 and Ryan's patterns that can test this for us?
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post #768 of 1004 Old 03-24-2017, 04:57 AM
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Hi Ryan, for those who buyed the media files, there will be any way to convert them to BD ISO? or we will have to rebuy them? :S

Thanks
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post #769 of 1004 Old 03-24-2017, 04:50 PM
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HI Ryan,

firstable, thank you for your awsome work and sorry for my bad english.

I try to calibrate the UHD profil of my OLED 55C6. I use your OLED LG pattern test with a spyder 4 and colorHCFR. I have difficulties with the balance of RGB for some patterns. Especially those with high values. For example, with the 653 pattern, my RGB balance is pretty perfect (nothing to touch) but with the 637 pattern, the result is awful : Blue at 109% and Red at 95%. If I try some modifications on Red and Blue, nothing happened.

Before I start to search the problem with my spyder or the colorhcfr, i want to be sure your patterns is perfect and nothing goes wrong with them.

Thanks.
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post #770 of 1004 Old 03-25-2017, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmat27 View Post
HI Ryan,

firstable, thank you for your awsome work and sorry for my bad english.

I try to calibrate the UHD profil of my OLED 55C6. I use your OLED LG pattern test with a spyder 4 and colorHCFR. I have difficulties with the balance of RGB for some patterns. Especially those with high values. For example, with the 653 pattern, my RGB balance is pretty perfect (nothing to touch) but with the 637 pattern, the result is awful : Blue at 109% and Red at 95%. If I try some modifications on Red and Blue, nothing happened.

Before I start to search the problem with my spyder or the colorhcfr, i want to be sure your patterns is perfect and nothing goes wrong with them.

Thanks.
The patterns are ok. The issue you're probably seeing is the alignment of the 20-point white balance controls to their intended pattern.

Try looking at say the pattern for control point 606, set it the matching control point to +50 red -50 green and blue. Does it change color? If it's not a strong change, if it changes at all, then you have an alignment issue. This would mean you might need to use control point 591 or 622 to adjust a 606 pattern.
You can lower contrast a little bit until it gets aligned to fix this alignment (so 606 controls adjust a 606 pattern).

I've discovered a minor a bug with contrast and white balance controls. Changing contrast does not align white balance controls UNTIL either dynamic contrast is toggles on/off, or white balance controls are touched again (+1 then -1 forces it to realign).
You can simply turn the display off and back on as well.
This makes it a little tedious to adjust alignment via the +50 -50 trick described above.

This was a major headache for me and I only recently discovered this behavior on my E6. I'm assuming it happens on others, but no one has checked this out yet.
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post #771 of 1004 Old 03-25-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamikaze_Ice View Post
The patterns are ok. The issue you're probably seeing is the alignment of the 20-point white balance controls to their intended pattern.

Try looking at say the pattern for control point 606, set it the matching control point to +50 red -50 green and blue. Does it change color? If it's not a strong change, if it changes at all, then you have an alignment issue. This would mean you might need to use control point 591 or 622 to adjust a 606 pattern.
You can lower contrast a little bit until it gets aligned to fix this alignment (so 606 controls adjust a 606 pattern).

I've discovered a minor a bug with contrast and white balance controls. Changing contrast does not align white balance controls UNTIL either dynamic contrast is toggles on/off, or white balance controls are touched again (+1 then -1 forces it to realign).
You can simply turn the display off and back on as well.
This makes it a little tedious to adjust alignment via the +50 -50 trick described above.

This was a major headache for me and I only recently discovered this behavior on my E6. I'm assuming it happens on others, but no one has checked this out yet.
Interesting. I'll try this tonight (I mean, in a hour, I live in France). Thank you Kamikaze.
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post #772 of 1004 Old 03-25-2017, 02:51 PM
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For now, I think I 've found the cause of my problem : the ABL.

What I've done :

- Go on the pattern 653 for example.
- I take the mesure in mode continu and at the same time I go to the settings of WB for 653. The value of RGB are strange : 92% R, 101% G, 104 % B
- Try to change the value of the red. Increase 20 steps et red is at 93% or 94%. Problem here IMO. I reset the red.
- I quit the TV menu.
- I change HDMI entry.
- Wait a few second
- Go back on the HDMI entry with my pattern and take mesures immediatly : 98% R, 100% G and 102 %B. Try to change rapidly the red : +10 steps and the red is good.

I think the patterns are to big and can't cancelling the ABL. I restart my calibration from the beginning to see if ma theory is good (or not).

@Ryan : Have/Can you try to create small patterns for OLED LG ?

EDIT : I'm wrong. @Kamikaze you're right. I have a desynchronisation. On the pattern 513, I can modify RGB via the code 529.

Last edited by matmat27; 03-25-2017 at 03:29 PM.
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post #773 of 1004 Old 03-26-2017, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256k View Post
Hi Ryan, for those who buyed the media files, there will be any way to convert them to BD ISO? or we will have to rebuy them? :S

Thanks
Hi 256k

My upcoming UltraHD Bluray disc based version of my pattern suite is being released as a completely new product. However, I'm working on a discount for existing customers. Thanks!

- Ryan
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post #774 of 1004 Old 03-26-2017, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmat27 View Post
For now, I think I 've found the cause of my problem : the ABL.

What I've done :

- Go on the pattern 653 for example.
- I take the mesure in mode continu and at the same time I go to the settings of WB for 653. The value of RGB are strange : 92% R, 101% G, 104 % B
- Try to change the value of the red. Increase 20 steps et red is at 93% or 94%. Problem here IMO. I reset the red.
- I quit the TV menu.
- I change HDMI entry.
- Wait a few second
- Go back on the HDMI entry with my pattern and take mesures immediatly : 98% R, 100% G and 102 %B. Try to change rapidly the red : +10 steps and the red is good.

I think the patterns are to big and can't cancelling the ABL. I restart my calibration from the beginning to see if ma theory is good (or not).

@Ryan : Have/Can you try to create small patterns for OLED LG ?

EDIT : I'm wrong. @Kamikaze you're right. I have a desynchronisation. On the pattern 513, I can modify RGB via the code 529.
Hi matmat27

A smaller patch would only hide the issue and/or skew results. The current 10% patch size, also utilized by the UHDA, is closer to what you would see in actual content. Thanks!

- Ryan
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post #775 of 1004 Old 03-26-2017, 09:24 AM
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I understand. I believed the pattern were not at 10%.

I found on other thread the issue with the WB of the OLED.

Thanks for your work
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post #776 of 1004 Old 03-28-2017, 06:56 AM
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I'm waiting for the disc version. Have you thought about selling your disc to the folks at Kaleidescape so Strato owners could purchase download from the K Store? Thanks. SJ
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post #777 of 1004 Old 03-31-2017, 07:28 AM
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Hi Masciola

i'm not able to use the pattern 513 for OLED, it just does not work, chromapure not moves, it's like it's not from there
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post #778 of 1004 Old 03-31-2017, 09:36 PM
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Hi Masciola

i'm not able to use the pattern 513 for OLED, it just does not work, chromapure not moves, it's like it's not from there
See if controls for 498 or 529 make changes to the 513 pattern.
If this works, then your problem is the pattern-control alignment. This was the problem matmat27 was posting about, and using controls for 529 worked to adjust 513.

In this case, you can try lowering Contrast and raising OLED Light to have the same peak output. This CAN cause other controls to come out of alignment on these OLEDs.
On my E6 I could align all except 637, 653 and 668. Correcting alignment for those required service menu adjustments to Sub Contrast and Sub Brightness (default is 128 for both on the 2016 LG OLEDs)
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post #779 of 1004 Old 04-02-2017, 05:33 AM
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Excellent set of patterns for HDR calibration and adjustment
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post #780 of 1004 Old 04-03-2017, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze_Ice View Post
See if controls for 498 or 529 make changes to the 513 pattern.
If this works, then your problem is the pattern-control alignment. This was the problem matmat27 was posting about, and using controls for 529 worked to adjust 513.

In this case, you can try lowering Contrast and raising OLED Light to have the same peak output. This CAN cause other controls to come out of alignment on these OLEDs.
On my E6 I could align all except 637, 653 and 668. Correcting alignment for those required service menu adjustments to Sub Contrast and Sub Brightness (default is 128 for both on the 2016 LG OLEDs)
You've been able to calibrate the 20 points? i'm not able to do it after pattern 7, after that everything induces to an insane quantity of artifacts, also calibrate White it's impossible for me, the values keeps moving all the time, and when you think you've claibrated it, if you take a measure of it 2 minutes after, your "calibrated white" have now an insane dE...
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