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First timer 3DLUT /w Calman, Eecolor and firestick mobile forge, please comment

3K views 20 replies 3 participants last post by  cardoski 
#1 ·
Dear All,

This is my first attempt to generate 3Dlut for my Samsung Plasma (E series) with Eecolor , Calman Enthusiast, and Firestick.

Player is Oppo 105. HDMI option is Oppo: Colorspace: Auto. Deep Color: Off (option are: 36 Bits, 30 Bits (dithered), 30 Bits). Deinterlacing Mode: Auto. Which one should I pick?

Meter is I1Display pro profiled with I1photo. Low light handler ENABLE (is this correct?)

Setting in Firestick PC level check. Setting in TV, HDMI black level in gray cant be change.

Samsung plasma Cell light 19 to get 125CDM2, contrast 100. Colorspace CUSTOM (I think I may have the wrong step here, should I pick native)

Calman Target option BT 1886. Luminance level is Video 16-235 ( is this correct because Firestick is expand to video level)

3Dlut setting: IR Profile time based (maximum) , Video Range: SMPTE+ (16-255). Is this better than SMPTE?

Target window pattern constant APL 10.

Black level target is use measure black level, someone mention to use 0.08 instead, what should I do here?

Please take a look at my report, it seems 10 grayscale is slightly high, can someone tell me what went wrong here?

Btw how do u see the gamma curve in Calman? I cant find it in the report.

Thank you,
Dan
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Hi,

I just did another 3D lut with 3000 pacthes. It looks better in my eyes.

Differences: colorspace is native instead of custom. 100% gain adjustment only no 30%.

Cell light 16, contrast 99. 125 CDM2.

How can I make the RGB line smoother? Also black measurement is out of the box, does it have a target box?

Edit in closer inspection this 3dlut has greenish tint.

Thanks
 

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#3 · (Edited)
Hi,

I just did another 3D lut with 3000 patches. It looks better in my eyes.

Differences: colorspace is native instead of custom. 100% gain adjustment only no 30%.

Cell light 16, contrast 99. 125 CDM2.

How can I make the RGB line smoother? Also black measurement is out of the box, does it have a target box?

Edit in closer inspection this 3dlut has greenish tint.

Thanks
Hi, about your 3D LUT calibration with eeColor, when you perform 3D LUT AutoCAL, you have to set to calibrate for 16-235 (Video Levels) and not 16-255 as you have selected.

eeColor has 65-Point Cube (64-Point usable) in 0-255 and 56-Point for 16-235. Since the 255 level is bypassed by design of eeColor and can't be calibrated, we never select to calibrate for 0-255 or 16-255 with eeColor. For example all Lumagen's are calibrating 16-235 only.



Also we don't calibrate 1D LUT first as the CalMAN's workflow says. This workflow is designed for all 3D LUT devices, for eeColor since the 56-Point Cube is including 56-Point Grayscale, makes no sense to calibrate 1D LUT first, another reason is that the 1D LUT Table of eeColor is not located in front of 3D LUT table, so that 1D LUT Output table can't be used as Shaper LUT (1D LUT Input Table).

The same is happening with Lumagen (1D LUT is after the 3D LUT) but we do 1D LUT because 1D LUT (21-Point) table of Lumagen has larger size from 3D LUT table (17-Point).

Mobile Forge is compressing 0-255 to 16-235, so it can't display below 16 or above 235 patterns. All below 16 steps (1-15 are becoming 16 and the all above 235 (236-254) steps are becoming 235, so you can't use it for applications where you will need to calibrated for 16-255 (as you have selected) For 3D LUT you don't need a pattern generator to display anything outside 16-235 for patch generation.

When you do a 3D LUT verification or manual calibration with internal display controls, you have to untick the ''Use native gamma for gamut targets''. When you have this ticked, CalMAN calculates the dE based to your selected xx% Gray which your workflow layout page has been configured (which is usually 75% Stimulus Level by default) and not using the 100% White.

You enable this only when you will manually calibrate the gamut of a display in cases where you can't control gamma tracking using it's available calibration controls.

The Black level chromaticity you see at CIE Chart, it's a display native characteristic and can't be calibrated, even if the software will try to calibrate it, it will be lifted, since it will have to add R/G/B values to bring chromaticity to ideal, so this is correct; the fact that you black measurement dot is at the same spot in pre and post calibration @ your CIE Chart. Any calibration software has to bypass calibrating Black.

Generally your Grayscale performance is good, everything that has average below 1.0 dE2000 for Grayscale is ideal. The RGB Lines you see at that workflow page you are using it's including gamma errors, so even if you have a perfect RGB balance but gamma errors, you have to except the RGB lines to go up-down (down when that grayscale step is darker than ideal or up when it's brighter).

As you use my calibration disk for pre-calibration settings, you can use the CalMAN 5 Workflows my disk users are getting, especially the Color Comparator Comparison Workflow, where you can check visually if you can notice the errors in your Grayscale or other Colors:





 
#4 ·
Hi Ted,

Thank you for your help. I did a 3rd test with 16-235 and untick the ''Use native gamma for gamut targets" Contrast is 99 (100 looks abnormal cant see 251+ with ur pattern)

Let me know what you think. Btw do I need to have specific setting in 3D cube LUT layout setting? How can I improve it?

Best,
Dan
 

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#5 ·
Hi,


The layout data points are options for the workflow layout page the workflow you are using, not related with 3D LUT Settings, it has to do with the which charts CalMAN will show/patch measure.


3D LUT settings are only available when you hit the 3D LUT AutoCAL button.


For CalMAN, from the general feedback I got from other users which are contacting me (because I use only LightSpace for myself) 3.500 points will be the max option to set.
 
#7 ·
For the results of the 3D LUT is responsible the software, the stability/capabilities of the panel and the repeatability of the meter.

eeColor is only loading the correction CalMAN will generate only.

Try higher number of calibrated points.
 
#9 ·
Take also a 5-Point Saturation reading pre/post calibration.

Seems that your color slider is higher so you have more color luminance.

Take measurements using my workflow which shows the luminance error bars, the one you are using from CalMAN, we can't get enough data (can't see your gamma etc.)

 
#20 ·
Hi, eeColor is a 3D LUT Box and works as 3D LUT correction holder. It's not having scalling or other features.

Calibration software that supports 3D LUT Calibration, like CalMAN Enthousiast/LightSpace HTL/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS will generate the 3D LUT correction table.

For patch generation a notebook output HDMI working as extended desktop can be used from CalMAN Enthousiast/LightSpace HTL/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS Internal software pattern generators, for CalMAN, FireStick Stick can be used additionally or for DisplayCAL the Amazon ChromeCast.

If you will use your notebook output, this will require some testing (with measurements and levels checking via Brightness/Contrast Patterns) to see if your PC/Notebook Output is matching your blu-ray/media player output when you will generate the same patterns from a calibration disk.

The best thing is to take some measurements (Grayscale/Saturation/ColorChecker) from your Blu-Ray player and then take the same measurements with the internal pattern generator.

Check the reports to see if the measurements from the both inputs are matching closely under meter repeatability tolerance.

Check also Black,White level measurement, Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness/Clipping patterns using your Player HDMI vs. Notebook HDMI to see if they are matching also.
 
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