Sony XBR-X940D CalMAN Calibration Discussion - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What are stockish settings?
Color settings all flat, 90 contrast and 30 brightness or so

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Old 11-06-2016, 02:39 PM
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@Polaris75 Brightness in this TV is Blacklight Level, are you refer to the Black Level or Black Light?
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kanti123 View Post
@Polaris75 Brightness in this TV is Blacklight Level, are you refer to the Black Level or Black Light?
Backlight

I haven't played with "Black level" at all yet ... not even sure what it does ...

Did a two point for my day and a two point for my night ... WOW different settings ... so different I've saved them in Expert 1 and Expert 2 and applied them to Cinema Home and Cinema Pro as Day and Night rather than reserving one for HDR ... I figure HDR is closer to "Day" so I'm using Expert 1 on "HDR Video" for now, and am sitting down to actually enjoy the set for an extended period for the first time, and watch X-Men: Apocalypse

I'll post the specifics tomorrow
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris75 View Post
Backlight

I haven't played with "Black level" at all yet ... not even sure what it does ...

Did a two point for my day and a two point for my night ... WOW different settings ... so different I've saved them in Expert 1 and Expert 2 and applied them to Cinema Home and Cinema Pro as Day and Night rather than reserving one for HDR ... I figure HDR is closer to "Day" so I'm using Expert 1 on "HDR Video" for now, and am sitting down to actually enjoy the set for an extended period for the first time, and watch X-Men: Apocalypse

I'll post the specifics tomorrow
As Kanti123 was trying to say:

Brightness = Backlight level control
Contrast = Contrast
Black Level = Brightness

Black Level is set using the Pluge test pattern (4 bars where the left two disappear into the background when the setting is correct).

Black Level and Contrast are measured settings, whereas Brightness is a subjective setting.
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:12 AM
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10Pt Adjustment is messing up with my gamma and gray ramp making my movie looks greenish. So I decided to do 2point adjustment and left it at that. I have to do some more reading. in a scene like shadow, you can see a distinct discoloration the best result for me was this 2 scale adjustment. all IREs are below 3 (can't see by the human eyes) same for Gamut. I have to live with I guess.
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Last edited by kanti123; 11-07-2016 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:12 AM
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Sorry for the intrusion but I have noticed something within the images you provided. In the images of the grayscale and CMS screens I noted the differences that exist between "Y" and the "Target Y" values. When the luminance is set too high it will reflect by pushing the gamma line lower on the graph and the opposite is also true. This is reflected in the RGB Balance graph and the Delta E graph. I hope you can see the correlation between all three graphs.

In the CMS image note again the differences that exist between the "Y" and the "Target Y". Adjust each color to match the target value. You may have to re-read a couple of times as after making an adjustment the graph will appear to change. The white values are spot on.

Not knowing which version of Calman you have limits many suggestions.


Again, I apologize for the intrusion.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanti123 View Post
10Pt Adjustment is messing up with my gamma and gray ramp making my movie looks greenish. So I decided to do 2point adjustment and left it at that. I have to do some more reading. in a scene like shadow, you can see a distinct discoloration the best result for me was this 2 scale adjustment. all IREs are below 3 (can't see by the human eyes) same for Gamut. I have to live with I guess.
What version of CalMAN do you have? I don't have a screen that shows measured vs target values.

BTW, I ran some measurements using MobileForge test pattern, and the results were significantly different from the same measurements using the Spears&Munsil test patterns. At this time I don't know why, so I am sticking with using S&M. Perhaps I am missing a CM setting when using MobileForge.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What version of CalMAN do you have? I don't have a screen that shows measured vs target values.

BTW, I ran some measurements using MobileForge test pattern, and the results were significantly different from the same measurements using the Spears&Munsil test patterns. At this time I don't know why, so I am sticking with using S&M. Perhaps I am missing a CM setting when using MobileForge.
I ordered S&M disc from Amazon it would take about a week to arrive, btw did you make sure that Expand to PC level is selected on Spectracal?
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I ordered S&M disc from Amazon it would take about a week to arrive, btw did you make sure that Expand to PC level is selected on Spectracal?
Yes, I followed the instructions in the Quick Setup guide, including the video setting in my AppleTV.

You didn't answer my question-what version of CalMAN are you running? I may want to upgrade to a more full-featured version.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:39 AM
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Sorry about that, I'm running Calman 5 Enthusiast.
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Old 11-07-2016, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry about that, I'm running Calman 5 Enthusiast.
I have CalMAN 2016 Control. I need to upgrade to Enthusiast so I am looking at the same screens as you are.
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Old 11-07-2016, 07:34 AM
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Nice display. I'm just curious but wouldn't it be best to calibrate for two settings one primarily at D65, HD Rec.709 and BT.1886 gamma. And another at: ST 2084 HDR color space and Rec BT.2020 gamma? The latter being a bit more difficult as I'm not sure what source/patterns you would use and I believe you would need Enthusiast at least.

I saw you using Power gamma, also curious what light meter are you using with Calman?
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:04 AM
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Sorry for the intrusion but I have noticed something within the images you provided.
No intrusion at all, please, all are welcome and I for one am happy for any and all input and assistance we can get with this, as I'm sure the others are!

Even if someone doesn't have the set in question, any additional expertise on CalMan we can get in this thread the better!
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:09 AM
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Nice display. I'm just curious but wouldn't it be best to calibrate for two settings one primarily at D65, HD Rec.709 and BT.1886 gamma. And another at: ST 2084 HDR color space and Rec BT.2020 gamma? The latter being a bit more difficult as I'm not sure what source/patterns you would use and I believe you would need Enthusiast at least.
I've been working on that a bit, but yeah, it is difficult to say the least. I'm using R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns, the rolloff around "70%" is wreaking havoc, and no one is even sure the 10-point controls do anything beyond the SDR range! :-/

I'm hoping to find some time today or tomorrow to really dive in to it. Someone in another thread suggested using an "RGB without luminance" chart to measure RGB in HDR10. I've yet to set that up, but am hoping that will making calibrating for ST 2084/BT.2020 a little easier
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanti123 View Post
10Pt Adjustment is messing up with my gamma and gray ramp making my movie looks greenish. So I decided to do 2point adjustment and left it at that. I have to do some more reading. in a scene like shadow, you can see a distinct discoloration the best result for me was this 2 scale adjustment. all IREs are below 3 (can't see by the human eyes) same for Gamut. I have to live with I guess.

Kanti,your contrast ratio is way of,ire 0 says 0.000 (guess it should be around 0.035) are you using the power gamma 2.4?
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:47 AM
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ok, I went into design mode and changed "reference" from "absolute" to "relative" on the RGB chart in the HDR10 pre-cal worksheet and now have something we can maybe work with -

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Old 11-07-2016, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As Kanti123 was trying to say:

Brightness = Backlight level control
Contrast = Contrast
Black Level = Brightness

Black Level is set using the Pluge test pattern (4 bars where the left two disappear into the background when the setting is correct).

Black Level and Contrast are measured settings, whereas Brightness is a subjective setting.
Yeah I was thinking of that "Black Adjust" setting in there.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:13 PM
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Ok, so I just spent far too much time with the TV for a workday, but here we are ...

2-Point HDR Cal Pre



2-Point HDR Cal White Balance (before adjustments)



2-Point HDR Cal White Balance (after adjustments)



2-Point HDR Cal Grayscale (after 2-Point adjustments) - this is one screwy graph, but notice almost everything is +/- ~1 of the center line, the graph is very zoomed in



2-Point HDR Cal ColorChecker (after 2-Point adjustments) - Note: The worst of it and the Max dE is referring to the extremes - "DCI Green" and "DCI Blue" ... most "normal" colors fall under 3.



2-Point HDR Cal Post



2-Point HDR Cal Report (top half, bottom is redundant with what I've already posted)




and last but not least, my settings -

R-Gain: Max
G-Gain: Max
B-Gain: -4
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: -11
B-Bias: Max


B-Bias at max makes the TV's overlay menu a faint blue tint! But for the actual content displayed behind that, the meter insists it is correct.

This was done using R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns displayed directly on the TV using the "Video" app.


Comparing pre and post it looks like the dE on white went way down, but every single one of the primaries and secondaries went up ... so rock and a hard place as to which is better ... I wonder if a 30%/peak would be better to do a 2 point with than 30/80.


Edit: Addendum - it's been mentioned that sideloading MobileForge onto TVs results in incorrect patterns for whatever reason ... I wonder if the same holds true for the "Video" app running right on the TV itself ... if I get a chance tomorrow (or tonight after everyone goes to bed if I can't sleep), I'll run the patterns through my K8500 and see if the readings look the same.

Last edited by Polaris75; 11-07-2016 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 11-07-2016, 01:06 PM
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Kanti,your contrast ratio is way of,ire 0 says 0.000 (guess it should be around 0.035) are you using the power gamma 2.4?
I was measuring with local dimming on. No I was not using power gamma there's no option for me to select power gamma anyway.

Last edited by kanti123; 11-07-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:37 PM
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I was measuring with local dimming on. No I was not using power gamma there's no option for me to select power gamma anyway.
Your gamma formula in SpectraCal ... what is that set to? In your settings under "Target Options."
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Old 11-07-2016, 03:46 PM
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@Polaris75 here you go
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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@Polaris75 here you go
For some reason, I can't read the image on my iPad. Can you just tell us what your Gamma setting is, rather than taking a screen print, please?
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:40 PM
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Itu/bt 1886
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Old 11-07-2016, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Itu/bt 1886
So why are you not setting it to Power=2.4?
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:07 PM
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So why are you not setting it to Power=2.4?
Because 1886 > 2.4? Did you not read that thing I posted for you?


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Target Options (gamma power 2.4)"
Your daily brain-washing for the day - http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/...rs/BT.1886.pdf ... come to the dark BT.1886 side... we have cookies!
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Because 1886 > 2.4? Did you not read that thing I posted for you?
No, I had not had a chance to read that. Now I have read it, and it looks like I will be running a new calibration this evening.

Thanks for fainting it out. Soon, we will all be on the same page (I hope).

Edit: if I use this setting, what should the Gamma setting on the display be? Still 2.4?
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:19 PM
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No, I had not had a chance to read that. Now I have read it, and it looks like I will be running a new calibration this evening.

Thanks for fainting it out. Soon, we will all be on the same page (I hope).

Edit: if I use this setting, what should the Gamma setting on the display be? Still 2.4?
-2 has got me on target on that early worksheet in the calibration where you adjust gamma ... 0 is a little brighter, probably good for a daytime setting ... It'll tell you it's closer to 2.2 to start but you'll still be calibrating to 1886 ...

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Old 11-07-2016, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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-2 has got me on target on that early worksheet in the calibration where you adjust gamma ... 0 is a little brighter, probably good for a daytime setting ... It'll tell you it's closer to 2.2 to start but you'll still be calibrating to 1886 ...

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Well, I have just about had it with CalMAN. Using 1886, my results changed yet again. And I had something strange happen during the session. When I went to adjust the 10-point settings, when I adjusted the offsets, CalMAN did not register any change whatsoever. I tried a +10 offset, and the bars didn't budge. WTF?

With all the efforts over the last several days, I really don't see any visible change in PQ. I question whether this is worth the effort.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:31 PM
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I was measuring with local dimming on. No I was not using power gamma there's no option for me to select power gamma anyway.
Hi.

LD should be turned off during calibration,otherwise it will mess up your testpatterns and your readings will be wrong,also try using APL 18 (or 25) testpattern in case the tv have some nasty automatic shut downs at lower ire's,try local dimming on after cal.
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi.

LD should be turned off during calibration,otherwise it will mess up your testpatterns and your readings will be wrong,also try using APL 18 (or 25) testpattern in case the tv have some nasty automatic shut downs at lower ire's,try local dimming on after cal.
In an earlier post, I commented that I tested out a full set of measurements both with local dimming on and off, and there was essentially no variance in the measurements. On what do you base your recommendation?

And what about another poster's comment--you watch TV with LD on. Why not calibrate it with LD on?

While feedback and comments are welcome here, there should be facts and data supporting the recommendations. I don't know anything about you. Are you an amateur calibrator like me, or are you a professional calibrator with training on Sony equipment?
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