***Official B/C/E/G6P OLED Calibration Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:36 AM
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What brightness setting are you guys using. If I set mine higher than 50 on my 65 B6 I lose infinite black. At 51 you have to sit close to the screen to see illumination but its definitely there. At 52 its obivous from 10 feet. I'm using 2.2 gamma setting. I've raised the 5IRE RGB in the 20 points to help with near black detail but raising it up 10 points to bring back near black detail causes clay type artifacts with near black colors, like skin tones in dark scenes.
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Old 11-30-2016, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I finished a 21-pt calibration last night and tracked progress in a way I thought might be interesting for others to see.


After 2-pt is the gamma curve after using LOW to set white balance at 5% and below and HIGH to set white balance at 100% (2-3 cycles to converge)


After 21-pt White Balance is the gamma curve after using 21-pt R,G,B to set white balance (only) of all 21 points primarily by adjusting Red and Blue no concern with Luminance / Gamma)


After 21-pt Gamma is the gamma curve after using primarily 21-pt Adjusting Luminance to adjust Gamma top BT.1886 (as per HCFR with Black Level set to 00.34 cd/m2)


dE after 21-pt Gamma shows the final xy and Luminance errors following this process


I'm sure it can be tweaked further but am pretty happy with the improvements from such a relatively efficient process. The new Adjusting Luminance controls are pretty convenient for calibrating gamma after white balance calibration and have only modest impact on the 21-pt R, G, B white balance calibration that has already been completed. With these new controls, I find calibrating 21-pt Luminance/Gamma after calibrating 21-pt White Balance to be quite a bit more efficient and faster than calibrating 21-pt white balance and gamma at the same time using R, G, B controls (as I had to do on the 65EF9500).
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:51 PM
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Quick Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Those three and Gamma.

Chad's recommendation is to always fix Contrast at 85 and only adjust OLED Light to wary peak 100% luminance, so that would mean there are only three base settings:

Brightness
OLED Light
Gamma
I finally tried to do this and found that it's important not to forget to also set Gamut to Normal as opposed to Wide on the uncalibrated one. Before doing this there were severe differences in color between the two that drove me nuts.
After this the colors between the two were the same (I kept Color at 60 and Tint at R1 for both, though I can undo this) and found that the relatively uncalibrated settings was crushing blacks a whole bunch, so yay success! However, I also find myself somewhat attracted to the contrasty look of the relatively uncalibrated setting. Also, the colors are all a bit more muted in places during 'The Dark Knight' where I'm not sure that they should be - IOW spots in the movie that in my mind should have a strong blue (the beginning credits) or green (the bank vault) tints were more neutral. I guess getting it to be more neutral is sort of the point, and I've never seen this movie on either a reference display or a calibrated one, so I don't know if this is 'correct' or not. I tried taking photos with my phone but natch those were trash - have a dSLR but need to find my tripod before I can try taking them again.

One other thing I'm noticing is that on 1080i content on this display there's a lot of jittering (for example around the score box when watching sports) this is pretty noticeable. Using TruMotion does not mitigate this. Not sure if this is an issue with my source (Ceton Echo connected to a WMC PC running Intel HD 4000 graphics) not deinterlacing properly that I never noticed on the smaller TV this replaced (random LG 720p 42" plasma that's maybe five years old) or if there's something else at play here. Problem persists whether the device is connected via my receiver or directly to the TV. I don't have a Bluray with 1080i content on hand. (I mean, I might, but I'd have to hunt through my movie selection to find it). Pretty sure I have a movie in 1080i somewhere so I could try playing that via the TV's Plex app, presuming that it can handle 1080i without requiring a transcode or deinterlace by the server itself. Don't have any other ideas.

ED: So I remeasured just now, using the base-calibrated setting as pre and the 21-pt IRE one as post and everything is way off gamma-wise (dE is also higher across the board but the gamma being too low on the low end and completely mangled on the high end is a more easily noticeable issue). I wasn't crazy for thinking there was more detail but also that the image was too washed out. But I have no clue what happened here. Gonna start tweaking again. But here are things as they stand (see attachment). Again, not sure why my measurements were apparently so wrong the first time.

ED2: Just remeasured again without changing anything. Light output has changed again and gamma doesn't look so bad. I have no clue what to think anymore.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bilditup1_1st_attempt_revisited.pdf (156.1 KB, 170 views)
File Type: pdf bilditup1_1st_attempt_iii.pdf (156.1 KB, 160 views)

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Old 12-01-2016, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I use Ted's Lightspace disk as my reference, but also have the GCD and AVSHD709 test patterns. I believe Ted's patterns are 10% window.

It's far faster using the pattern generator built into HCFR. I use the GDI patterns and 1% windows when doing that. Generally calibrate using HCFR patterns and then check using Ted's Lightspace.
Hi, Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Patterns are 11.11% Windows, same size as Lumagen's processors Large Patterns.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:14 AM
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Hey guys just purchased a c6 65 and want to learn how to calibrate it. Could anyone list the reading material and software/hardware to get a person with zero experience with calibrating a set like this. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcobra View Post
Hey guys just purchased a c6 65 and want to learn how to calibrate it. Could anyone list the reading material and software/hardware to get a person with zero experience with calibrating a set like this. Thanks in advance.
i1DisplayPro ($100-200 depending on new/used on-sale/full retail)
HCFR (free from here on the Forum)
AVSHD709 and GCD test pattern disks (free here on AVS)

Eventually you'll want to spring the modest cost for Ted's Lightspace Patterns but that can wait until you've mastered the basics...

Oh, and you'll need a laptop, ideally with HDMI out.

There are various tutorials you can find reference to here on AVS and the HCFR thread is especially helpful...
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilditup1 View Post
I finally tried to do this and found that it's important not to forget to also set Gamut to Normal as opposed to Wide on the uncalibrated one. Before doing this there were severe differences in color between the two that drove me nuts.
After this the colors between the two were the same (I kept Color at 60 and Tint at R1 for both, though I can undo this) and found that the relatively uncalibrated settings was crushing blacks a whole bunch, so yay success! However, I also find myself somewhat attracted to the contrasty look of the relatively uncalibrated setting. Also, the colors are all a bit more muted in places during 'The Dark Knight' where I'm not sure that they should be - IOW spots in the movie that in my mind should have a strong blue (the beginning credits) or green (the bank vault) tints were more neutral. I guess getting it to be more neutral is sort of the point, and I've never seen this movie on either a reference display or a calibrated one, so I don't know if this is 'correct' or not. I tried taking photos with my phone but natch those were trash - have a dSLR but need to find my tripod before I can try taking them again.

One other thing I'm noticing is that on 1080i content on this display there's a lot of jittering (for example around the score box when watching sports) this is pretty noticeable. Using TruMotion does not mitigate this. Not sure if this is an issue with my source (Ceton Echo connected to a WMC PC running Intel HD 4000 graphics) not deinterlacing properly that I never noticed on the smaller TV this replaced (random LG 720p 42" plasma that's maybe five years old) or if there's something else at play here. Problem persists whether the device is connected via my receiver or directly to the TV. I don't have a Bluray with 1080i content on hand. (I mean, I might, but I'd have to hunt through my movie selection to find it). Pretty sure I have a movie in 1080i somewhere so I could try playing that via the TV's Plex app, presuming that it can handle 1080i without requiring a transcode or deinterlace by the server itself. Don't have any other ideas.

ED: So I remeasured just now, using the base-calibrated setting as pre and the 21-pt IRE one as post and everything is way off gamma-wise (dE is also higher across the board but the gamma being too low on the low end and completely mangled on the high end is a more easily noticeable issue). I wasn't crazy for thinking there was more detail but also that the image was too washed out. But I have no clue what happened here. Gonna start tweaking again. But here are things as they stand (see attachment). Again, not sure why my measurements were apparently so wrong the first time.

ED2: Just remeasured again without changing anything. Light output has changed again and gamma doesn't look so bad. I have no clue what to think anymore.
Difficult for me to see PDFs...

Why don't you just take screenshots and attach as images (much easier all around).
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I finished a 21-pt calibration last night and tracked progress in a way I thought might be interesting for others to see.


After 2-pt is the gamma curve after using LOW to set white balance at 5% and below and HIGH to set white balance at 100% (2-3 cycles to converge)


After 21-pt White Balance is the gamma curve after using 21-pt R,G,B to set white balance (only) of all 21 points primarily by adjusting Red and Blue no concern with Luminance / Gamma)


After 21-pt Gamma is the gamma curve after using primarily 21-pt Adjusting Luminance to adjust Gamma top BT.1886 (as per HCFR with Black Level set to 00.34 cd/m2)


dE after 21-pt Gamma shows the final xy and Luminance errors following this process


I'm sure it can be tweaked further but am pretty happy with the improvements from such a relatively efficient process. The new Adjusting Luminance controls are pretty convenient for calibrating gamma after white balance calibration and have only modest impact on the 21-pt R, G, B white balance calibration that has already been completed. With these new controls, I find calibrating 21-pt Luminance/Gamma after calibrating 21-pt White Balance to be quite a bit more efficient and faster than calibrating 21-pt white balance and gamma at the same time using R, G, B controls (as I had to do on the 65EF9500).
I am really liking this TV.

TRON II is an excellent movie for assessing shadow detail and checking for the impact of near-black non-unuformity (especially excessive Vignetting).

I watched it last night with my newly-completed calibration settings and I have seen levels of detail I have never seen before. It was like watching a new movie. My camera does not come close to doing justice to the level of shadow detail my eyes were able to percieve but here is one example of a dark scene that showed more detail than I have ever seen before:
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Old 12-01-2016, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
i1DisplayPro ($100-200 depending on new/used on-sale/full retail)
HCFR (free from here on the Forum)
AVSHD709 and GCD test pattern disks (free here on AVS)

Eventually you'll want to spring the modest cost for Ted's Lightspace Patterns but that can wait until you've mastered the basics...

Oh, and you'll need a laptop, ideally with HDMI out.

There are various tutorials you can find reference to here on AVS and the HCFR thread is especially helpful...
Thank you sir! That gives me plenty to start with.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:27 PM
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Does anyone know if the inner IRE patterns (full windows) on the LGs are considered less accurate for measuring RGB values (compared to outer patterns) for color temp.? ABL obviously affects the luminance, so I don't use it for that purpose.

Last edited by ntalwar; 12-01-2016 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 11:33 AM
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How am I doing so far?

fafrd pointed me to this thread, thanks!

I've gone through every post and while I understand some of the content, I'm still very new at calibration so I'm trying to get a check to see if I'm on the right path.

Here is what I'm working with so far in terms of hardware/software:

LG OLED65B6P (living room TV)
LG OLED55B6P (bedroom TV)
X-Rite i1display Pro
HCFR (latest released build)
Computer with HDMI Out.

So far my process for calibration is as follows:

Pre Calibration
1) Turn off all TV extra processing (dynamic color, dynamic contrast, etc)
2) Set TV Gamma to "BT.1886"
3) Set TV Black level to "High"
4) Set Computer to output at RGB full range through HDMI
5) Set Computer ICC Profile to "sRGB IEC61966-2.1", which should disable all LUT/Gamma corrections on PC

Calibration
1) Set Brightness based on this pattern: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php . I make sure that all boxes are distinguishable
2) Set Contrast based on these two patterns: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php and http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php . I make sure that all color bars are distinct and all white boxes are distinguishable
3) Start up HCFR and set GDI to "0-255" for full range and use a custom white point of x.307 and y.318 based on advice from here: http://shootdatapost.com/blog/2014/5...ay-calibration
4) I then do a 20 point greyscale calibration by setting RGB values for each IRE using the i1Display Pro. To do this I use the constantly updating Window pattern from HCFR and adjusting RGB in real-time

Am I missing any steps here? Some specific questions I have:

- During 20 point greyscale calibration, I don't ever touch Luminance. All my Luminance levels are 0, I only modify RGB values to get everything to 100%. I've read about Luminance targets per IRE level, but I'm not sure what these values should be, am I doing something totally wrong here?

- I know I'm supposed to calibrate the primary colors after doing the 20 point greyscale calibration, but I can't seem to get anything but saturation to work in LG's CMS, and even then my color levels seem wildly off balace, like 3-400% for every primary color (ex. if red pattern is showing, red is 300+% while green and blue are 100%). What's odd is that if I don't touch the CMS and watch some content, the colors look great.

- On HCFR startup, there is an option to load a correction for the i1Display Pro. I just leave everything at default meaning no correction, is this ok?

Last edited by ravnet; 12-02-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravnet View Post
fafrd pointed me to this thread, thanks!

I've gone through every post and while I understand some of the content, I'm still very new at calibration so I'm trying to get a check to see if I'm on the right path.

Here is what I'm working with so far in terms of hardware/software:

LG OLED65B6P (living room TV)
LG OLED55B6P (bedroom TV)
X-Rite i1display Pro
HCFR (latest released build)
Computer with HDMI Out.

So far my process for calibration is as follows:

Pre Calibration
1) Turn off all TV extra processing (dynamic color, dynamic contrast, etc)
2) Set TV Gamma to "BT.1886"
3) Set TV Black level to "High"
4) Set Computer to output at RGB full range through HDMI
5) Set Computer ICC Profile to "sRGB IEC61966-2.1", which should disable all LUT/Gamma corrections on PC

Calibration
1) Set Brightness based on this pattern: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php . I make sure that all boxes are distinguishable
2) Set Contrast based on these two patterns: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php and http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php . I make sure that all color bars are distinct and all white boxes are distinguishable
3) Start up HCFR and set GDI to "0-255" for full range and use a custom white point of x.307 and y.318 based on advice from here: http://shootdatapost.com/blog/2014/5...ay-calibration
4) I then do a 20 point greyscale calibration by setting RGB values for each IRE using the i1Display Pro. To do this I use the constantly updating Window pattern from HCFR and adjusting RGB in real-time

Am I missing any steps here? Some specific questions I have:

- During 20 point greyscale calibration, I don't ever touch Luminance. All my Luminance levels are 0, I only modify RGB values to get everything to 100%. I've read about Luminance targets per IRE level, but I'm not sure what these values should be, am I doing something totally wrong here?

- I know I'm supposed to calibrate the primary colors after doing the 20 point greyscale calibration, but I can't seem to get anything but saturation to work in LG's CMS, and even then my color levels seem wildly off balace, like 3-400% for every primary color (ex. if red pattern is showing, red is 300+% while green and blue are 100%). What's odd is that if I don't touch the CMS and watch some content, the colors look great.

- On HCFR startup, there is an option to load a correction for the i1Display Pro. I just leave everything at default meaning no correction, is this ok?
You have it roughly right, but here's some advice and some nuances.

Get GCD and AVSHD709 test disks (free here on AVS). When the time is right, invest in Ted's Lightspace Disk (worth every penny).

Begin just using HCFR to measure and present patterns through your Bluray Player (don't try to use HCFR generator to start).

Adjust Peak white on OLED by fixing contrast to 85 and adjusting OLED light to get your desired peak white output (Chad and I both like 170 cd/m2). Use Black pluge patterns to adjust Brightness. Cycle back and adjust OLED light again (since these controls are linked).

Now measure 21-OT greyscale and look at both Luminance and Gamma graphs. Turn on red, blue, green displays on these two graphs.

Use the two-pt controls two improve white balance. Use Low controls to get whitepoint of 5% balanced. Now use High control to get 100% balanced. Now cycle back to rebalance 5% with Low, then back to 100% with High, etc. It can often take 4 or 5 cycles to get 2-point to converge.

Now you are ready to try 21-pt. Start by just balancing a single point, perhaps 10% (since 5% is already balanced). You want to get each point balanced and if you just do that first, the Luminance graph should look much better (red, green and blue lines converged) but the gamma graph should look screwed up / nonlinear (like the example I posted in an earlier post).

Dialing-in gamma is a more complex subject and probably for a seperate post. You can try the different gamma settings on the TV to see how they change your graphs. You can see the different options HCFR allows you to set gamma targets. Once you know what gamma setting you want to use on the TV and what gamma target you are aiming for, you can use RGB and/or Adjusting Luminance controls to move lumen output (Y) closer to target all along 21-pt.

Chad and I both set the TV to 2.1 and are defining gamma targets close to BT.1886 using an artificial black level of about 0.037 cd/m2, but in general, once you have mastered the ability to calibrate 21-pt to hitting any specific gamma target, you are going to want to play around, try different gamma functions including Power-Law-Gamma of 2.2 or 2.4 and check the results on content (since it's a matter of taste).

Don't even worry about color/CMS for now. These OLEDs are already close to perfect when it comes to color, CMS is far more complicated (read: easy to screw up), and there is far less 'bang for the buck' than mastering white balance.

Oh, and forget about HCFR generator got now. Black Level should be set to Low as it should be for your Bluray player.

Once you've mastered calibration with reference patterns through Bluray, you're ready to speed things up using the patterns generated by HCFR, but I'd probably suggest to purchase and become familiar with Ted's Lightspace Disk first. It's far to easy to get the wrong patterns coming from HCFR and you need to know how to compare against a known reference before everything gets all screwed up.

I've been doing this for two years now and am only now getting comfortable on using HCFR generator for the bulk of my 'rough-in' calibration and I still use Ted's Lightspace for my final touch-up pass and final check.

Much of the calibration information out there is based on obsolete technologies (i.e.: CRT) and controls (contrast versus OLED Light) so while it is accurate, it is not necessarily the most relevant for calibrating these newer OLEDs.

Case in point is the brand-new Adjustibg Luminance controls on these 2016 OLEDs. I find them very convenient to perform gamma correction following white balance (as I detailed in an earlier post). Until someone demonstrates to me a reason why this is a bad idea, I'm going to let the results (and time savings) speak for themselves...
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Last edited by fafrd; 12-02-2016 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
You have it roughly right, but here's some advice and some nuances.

Get GCD and AVSHD709 test disks (free here on AVS). When the time is right, invest in Ted's Lightspace Disk (worth every penny).

Begin just using HCFR to measure and present patterns through your Bluray Player (don't try to use HCFR generator to start).

Adjust Peak white on OLED by fixing contrast to 85 and adjusting OLED light to get your desired peak white output (Chad and I both like 170 cd/m2). Use Black pluge patterns to adjust Brightness. Cycle back and adjust OLED light again (since these controls are linked).

Now measure 21-OT greyscale and look at both Luminance and Gamma graphs. Turn on red, blue, green displays on these two graphs.

Use the two-pt controls two improve white balance. Use Low controls to get whitepoint of 5% balanced. Now use High control to get 100% balanced. Now cycle back to rebalance 5% with Low, then back to 100% with High, etc. It can often take 4 or 5 cycles to get 2-point to converge.

Now you are ready to try 21-pt. Start by just balancing a single point, perhaps 10% (since 5% is already balanced). You want to get each point balanced and if you just do that first, the Luminance graph should look much better (red, green and blue lines converged) but the gamma graph should look screwed up / nonlinear (like the example I posted in an earlier post).

Dialing-in gamma is a more complex subject and probably for a seperate post. You can try the different gamma settings on the TV to see how they change your graphs. You can see the different options HCFR allows you to set gamma targets. Once you know what gamma setting you want to use on the TV and what gamma target you are aiming for, you can use RGB and/or Adjusting Luminance controls to move lumen output (Y) closer to target all along 21-pt.

Chad and I both set the TV to 2.1 and are defining gamma targets close to BT.1886 using an artificial black level of about 0.037 cd/m2, but in general, once you have mastered the ability to calibrate 21-pt to hitting any specific gamma target, you are going to want to play around, try different gamma functions including Power-Law-Gamma of 2.2 or 2.4 and check the results on content (since it's a matter of taste).

Don't even worry about color/CMS for now. These OLEDs are already close to perfect when it comes to color, CMS is far more complicated (read: easy to screw up), and there is far less 'bang for the buck' than mastering white balance.

Oh, and forget about HCFR generator got now. Black Level should be set to Low as it should be for your Bluray player.

Once you've mastered calibration with reference patterns through Bluray, you're ready to speed things up using the patterns generated by HCFR, but I'd probably suggest to purchase and become familiar with Ted's Lightspace Disk first. It's far to easy to get the wrong patterns coming from HCFR and you need to know how to compare against a known reference before everything gets all screwed up.

I've been doing this for two years now and am only now getting comfortable on using HCFR generator for the bulk of my 'rough-in' calibration and I still use Ted's Lightspace for my final touch-up pass and final check.

Much of the calibration information out there is based on obsolete technologies (i.e.: CRT) and controls (contrast versus OLED Light) so while it is accurate, it is not necessarily the most relevant for calibrating these newer OLEDs.

Case in point is the brand-new Adjustibg Luminance controls on these 2016 OLEDs. I find them very convenient to perform gamma correction following white balance (as I detailed in an earlier post). Until someone demonstrates to me a reason why this is a bad idea, I'm going to let the results (and time savings) speak for themselves...
Thanks for the feedback! I'll add it to my steps and redo my calibration.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:25 PM
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One more question: if I calibrate based on RGB Low, do I need to recalibrate for RGB High?I have multiple devices that can output RGB High (PS4 Pro, PC) and prefer using it for the expanded color space.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ravnet View Post
One more question: if I calibrate based on RGB Low, do I need to recalibrate for RGB High?I have multiple devices that can output RGB High (PS4 Pro, PC) and prefer using it for the expanded color space.
I also read through this article:

http://referencehometheater.com/2014...ll-vs-limited/

and it states that RGB Low/Limited should always be used, do you guys agree with this for calibration purposes as well?
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Old 12-02-2016, 02:19 PM
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A couple of additional observations:

It is fine to use the adjusting luminance control in the 20 pt to lessen the severity of the r/g/b controls in the 20 pt menu.

The B series has a tiny bit of black crush (less than a percent but enough that the brightness setting can be effected) with an RGB colorspace signal vs. YCbCr. I had not noticed that in any other series, but I don't have one in front of me to double check. I confirmed this with my generator going directly into the tv.

Always double check your work with a smooth color gradient pattern like this when you're done. Look out for ripples or layering. Of you see that, you need to rework the 20 pt control.


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Old 12-02-2016, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
A couple of additional observations:

It is fine to use the adjusting luminance control in the 20 pt to lessen the severity of the r/g/b controls in the 20 pt menu.

The B series has a tiny bit of black crush (less than a percent but enough that the brightness setting can be effected) with an RGB colorspace signal vs. YCbCr. I had not noticed that in any other series, but I don't have one in front of me to double check. I confirmed this with my generator going directly into the tv.

Always double check your work with a smooth color gradient pattern like this when you're done. Look out for ripples or layering. Of you see that, you need to rework the 20 pt control.


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Happy to hear that confirmation that the new Adjusting Luminance controls are OK to use. I find them very convenient and just spend some more time dialing-in my white-balance and gamma calibration for ISF Bright using them (as well as RGB to get whitepoint right).


I would not have believed the below results were possible using i1DisplayPro+HCFR without witnessing them with my own eyes:
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:44 PM
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I have a 65c6p scheduled for delivery next Friday, so I'm trying to get my wits back about me on calibration. Most of my calibration experience is with PC monitors and printing, though I used to calibrate my TVs as well (no certification, I've certainly never been anywhere close to a pro at TV calibration). I haven't got a new TV in a loooong time, and I no longer have to color manage my computers either, so the only piece of hardware I have laying around is an old Spyder 2 that apparently wasn't worth selling.

My question is, will that do more good than harm for attempting white/black level adjustment with HCFR? I'd rather not drop the ~$160 on the i1DisplayPro if I don't have to (holiday gifts and extra energy usage cost quite enough, thank you!) but I know the old Spyder wasn't all that good even when it was new.

Worse case I can always wait until after the holidays to start calibrating it - it probably wouldn't hurt to let it run a bit first anyhow.

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on the hardware end for me!
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Some general observations:

1. This model year (the B-G6) seem more prone to changes in white balance depending on what was displayed for the few minutes prior to measurement. For instance, say you have the white balance set at 100% and you put up a black screen for a few minutes. If you then go and measure white balance at 100% again, chances are red is going to be a bit higher than it was before. Or, if you set it and then put up a white field or a high APL image for a few minutes and then go back and check, chances are green is going to be a bit high. It's not by a lot; usually it's only about half to one dE, but it can be somewhat confusing if you're not aware of it. Because of this, I like to put up a moving zone plate during any long time gaps to keep things consistent.
Chad, you posted this detailed and very helpful post soon after I started the thread, and I'm only now coming to fully understand it with my first few 21-pt calibrations of my 65C6P under my belt.

Rather than quote the entire post, I thought I'd break my follow-up questions I to sections so they can be taken up seperately as needed.

I think O ran into this issue a few times. Readings suddenly going slightly 'off' by a bit for no reason, thrashing through a few attempted adjustments before something was screwy. Stopping everything, restarting it from scratch, and seeing that readings had returned to previous levels.

I'm not sure if this was related to ABL or the image-retention effects you touch on above, but I would appreciate your advice as to how best to avoid this memory effect with a basic i1DisplayPro/HCFR/Calibration Disk configuration.

What is a 'moving zone plate' and what would be the best way to achieve the equivalent using a pattern disk?

I have been manually moving through a full 21-pt sweep (actually 20-OT since I now skip the 0% Black measurement ) and then backing the pattern disk to 0% and pausing while I make offline adjustments prior to the next sweep. This leaves a black screen between sweeps and allows a new sweep to be started quickly (FF to 5%, etc...).

Except for occassional hiccups, this seems to be working pretty well - would you have any concerns with this approach or have any ideas for what might be better?
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:50 PM
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Anybody find gamma 2.2 better then BT1886.
I tested with 2.2 and i find i like that better then BT because it gives me more shadow details and less nasty things in a dark scene.

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Old 12-03-2016, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
What is a 'moving zone plate' and what would be the best way to achieve the equivalent using a pattern disk?
Hi, these are Zone Plate (Color Reproduction -> Page 5 & 12) patterns but static versions, Chad is using moving Zone Plate generated from his external pattern generator.





I believe something with motion will do the job, for example a grayscale that fades in/out or a rolling grayscale ramp, It will be a good idea if you can connect to your HDMI Input you feed your LG OLED signal from your blu-ray player an HDMI switcher and connect to the same TV input a cheap media player, so when you will finish the measurements (a grayscale run) using the calibration disk from your player you will switch to another source which will be playing at repeat mode a moving zone plate or grayscale you can grab from youtube. and when you will be ready for a new grayscale run to switch back to your player from the HDMI switcher (you can get a model with a remote). If you use a calibration disk for the patterns, another idea is to use your notebook HDMI Output, as extended desktop where there you will have the youtube video of moving zone plate etc.
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, these are Zone Plate (Color Reproduction -> Page 5 & 12) patterns but static versions, Chad is using moving Zone Plate generated from his external pattern generator.





I believe something with motion will do the job, for example a grayscale that fades in/out or a rolling grayscale ramp, It will be a good idea if you can connect to your HDMI Input you feed your LG OLED signal from your blu-ray player an HDMI switcher and connect to the same TV input a cheap media player, so when you will finish the measurements (a grayscale run) using the calibration disk from your player you will switch to another source which will be playing at repeat mode a moving zone plate or grayscale you can grab from youtube. and when you will be ready for a new grayscale run to switch back to your player from the HDMI switcher (you can get a model with a remote). If you use a calibration disk for the patterns, another idea is to use your notebook HDMI Output, as extended desktop where there you will have the youtube video of moving zone plate etc.
Or I could switch to OTA TV between sweeps, correct?

PITA but if it avoids a memory effect / hysterisis, it's worth it.
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Old 12-03-2016, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
Not sure what you're asking about the 2 point controls being 15% and 85%. I calibrate them at 5% for the lows and 100% for the highs, because the 20 point adjustment goes better if you leave the 5% and 100% adjustments alone. This will leave a big green hump in the middle, but it can be calibrated out with the 20 point.

I have experimented with the BT1886 setting and may have used it once or twice. However, like 2.4, it usually comes out of black too slowly (high gamma at 5%) in my opinion.
2.2 works better because, after adjusting the 2 pt WB and brightness, it gives a gamma of around 2.25-2.3 at 5%, which is closest to the behavior I desire coming out of black. I sometimes do a very mild adjustment of the "adjusting luminance" control only at 5%, but I'd rather not if the TV cooperates.

My preferred method for night time viewing is a 2.35 sliding power with a .001 fL (.0034 cd/m2) manual black level. With a BT1886 formula, I'd increase that a little, to perhaps .005 or .006 cd/m2, or go with a 2.3 power law. You could do one of each and experiment.

I fully agree with the desire to go brighter; I've had similar feelings with these displays. As long as you don't get eyestrain, that is. Keeping in mind my Jeti 1211 may read luminance a bit differently than your meter, I'd suggest a 50 fL (about 170 cd/m2) peak light output in a dark room for those who want a little more punch.

I keep contrast at 85 on the new models and then reduce OLED light to the target peak white output. Reducing contrast much below 85 degrades the bit depth, and 85 gives full WTW headroom for whatever it's worth (not much IMO but might as well if there's no downside).
I'm going with a manual black level of 0.0034cd/m2 (0.01fL).

I'm curious if you have taken any near-black measurements.

I'm trying to get 16 to be true black and 18 to be close to target so if you have any data for what you are getting at 170cd/m2 peak at 0.5%, 1%, 2% and 3% would be helpful.

Interestingly, I'm getting better results using the 1.9 Gamma setting and have discovered that the New Adjusting Luminance controls essentially double the 21-pt adjustment range so that when maxed out at -50, there is enough range left in RGB to force a BT.1886 gamma curve (or basically whatever you could want).
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Or I could switch to OTA TV between sweeps, correct?

PITA but if it avoids a memory effect / hysterisis, it's worth it.
But you will not able to adjust the White Balance settings of your HDMI Input switching to TV Tuner.

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Old 12-03-2016, 08:07 PM
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Will try to bring the number close to 0.1 when I have free time, but for now, I think I'm happy with the result, especially it's the first time I calibrated a TV.

I have a question though, how does calibrating color work? The colors' delta E are crazy high. I tried playing around with the CMS but it doesn't seem to have any big impact (just playing with the red color setting), do I need to adjust multiple colors just to get one color right?
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Old 12-03-2016, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
But you will not able to adjust the White Balance settings of your HDMI Input switching to TV Tuner.
I'm going to have to switch input back and forth between live TV and HDMI/AVR, but how is that going to be any different from either switching between HDMI inputs into the AVR or switching between HDMI inputs into the TV?

I have a Chromecast Ultra which is currently feeding into the AVR, but I can feed it directly into the TV if there is any advantage...

Switching between OTA TV and the HDMZi input I am calibrating (AVR) seems like the easiest since the 'moving' signal will always be available without any set-up (OTA TV).

Is there something I am missing?
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadow2810 View Post
Will try to bring the number close to 0.1 when I have free time, but for now, I think I'm happy with the result, especially it's the first time I calibrated a TV.

I have a question though, how does calibrating color work? The colors' delta E are crazy high. I tried playing around with the CMS but it doesn't seem to have any big impact (just playing with the red color setting), do I need to adjust multiple colors just to get one color right?
Very impressive for a first attempt.

I would ignore CMS for now. More important to focus on near-black.

And also look at delta xy - especially in thec 10% - 25% range you can improve white balance (less colored greys ).
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Old 12-04-2016, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I'm going to have to switch input back and forth between live TV and HDMI/AVR, but how is that going to be any different from either switching between HDMI inputs into the AVR or switching between HDMI inputs into the TV?

I have a Chromecast Ultra which is currently feeding into the AVR, but I can feed it directly into the TV if there is any advantage...

Switching between OTA TV and the HDMZi input I am calibrating (AVR) seems like the easiest since the 'moving' signal will always be available without any set-up (OTA TV).

Is there something I am missing?
As Chad has posted, it's better to not do real-time adjustments per point, but run a Grayscale run and at the end of the measurements to view the charts and apply the adjustments you believe that will provide better RGB balance by tweaking all white balance controls at once and then re-measure the whole Grayscale again. So during the time you navigate to LG's controls to make the adjustments, at this point it's a good idea to have at background the moving zone plate or grayscale rolling ramp etc.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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As Chad has posted, it's better to not do real-time adjustments per point, but run a Grayscale run and at the end of the measurements to view the charts and apply the adjustments you believe that will provide better RGB balance by tweaking all white balance controls at once and then re-measure the whole Grayscale again. So during the time you navigate to LG's controls to make the adjustments, at this point it's a good idea to have at background the moving zone plate or grayscale rolling ramp etc.
Understand and that is exactly what I do (offline adjustments of full 21-pt followed by full 22-pt scan).

Up to now I have been leaving your disks 21-pt greyscale patterns paused on the 0% pattern (black) between runs.

Now I understand it would be better to have moving content on the screen between runs, and so my only question is: 'would switching inputs to OTA TV achieve this?'

Switching from HDMI2 to TV and back is a single button (pretty much), so very easy if this provides the moving content required.

If there is a problem I can rig up some other HDMI input with me I g content, but it is a PITA.

Switching to TV OK?
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Old 12-04-2016, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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This post from the HCFR thread contains correction data for i1DisplayPro/ColorMunkiDispkay correction for LG WOLEDs:

HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

This correction matrix was for the 2015 EF9500 so not necessarily perfect for the 2016 B/C/E/G6Ps...
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