***Official B/C/E/G6P OLED Calibration Thread - Page 50 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1471 of 1960 Old 04-19-2017, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
No I don't have Unicorn B6s. In fact I get the same results in the field when I do calibrations. Apparently my methodologies for calibrating 2016s eliminate the issues you have.

I have developed calibration methods to account for ABL on the 2016s.... along with metermeric failure which IMO is a far larger issue with OLED.
Care to share some tips on your methods ?
Do you use the CMS at all ?
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post #1472 of 1960 Old 04-19-2017, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
That's why I am a little agitated with my experience because I am not really chasing numbers...I'm merely trying to balance RGB for the values that respond to minimal adjustments (up to 513 as you noted). I'm not looking at luminance levels or output and I am not trying to get perfect EOTF or CCT Average. Just looking at the measured RGB level for each value and trying to get them close. Any chance you can take a screenshot of your CalMAN measurements so I can see what yours looks like?

Also, are you adjusting 668 at all? It responds to RGB adjustments (at least on my set) but not sure if I should be worrying about it at all or if adjusting this value will cause tracking problems for other values.

Thanks!


Here is my greyscale as of right now,might change with more experience ; )
I cant notice any colorisation on the greyscale ramp and also no more (as in more that is already there) posterisation.
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post #1473 of 1960 Old 04-19-2017, 11:10 PM
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Here`s a pic of colorchecker,this is with tint G+6 for better skintones,more testing requierd.
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post #1474 of 1960 Old 04-20-2017, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 256k View Post
The HDR grayscale cannot be touched entirely... when i reach 4xx it begins to heavy tint everything, so it's better to stop there
Each control has it's own working range which will not introduce any visible strange tint, and it's related to the adjustments you have apply to the previous and the next adjusting point.

When you do large adjustment, problems will appear, fixing only RGB Balance errors will require less control adjustments, this means that you have to sacrifice high adjustments (so leave errors) to be able to get watchable picture. dE Charts don't tell the whole story, controls are not aligh with patterns also, you have to test some stuff and them watch some movies scenes to confirm that there no added problems to shades/distortions/pixel-blocking etc..

Tracking perfectly of PQ transfer function is not possible because it will require high adjustments which will introduce serious problems to real content.

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Also, guys, that eecolor 3dlut box... Once you calibrate it, you must keep it forever attached to your TV? i thought that once you calibrated your TV, you disconnect that device and thats it, that it bypassed the internal settings of the TV or something and that's it, so you can use it for various tv's... but looks like its one of this boxes for each TV?
Once you will measure some thousand color points, the software you will use it export a 65-Point Cube 3D LUT correction table (274625 color points), this will be uploaded to eeColor memory and you will call it pressing a button from eeColor remote (which has 6 slots). If you have more sources or more displays, you can connect a HDMI Switcher (with remote) to eeColor HDMI Input (to be able to have more HDMI Input...to connect more different sources) and a HDMI Slitter to eeColor Output...to have more outputs to connect more displays/projectors etc.

Since corrections are stored to eeColor memory, eeColor has to stay always to the video chain.
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Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #1475 of 1960 Old 04-20-2017, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Here is my greyscale as of right now,might change with more experience ; )
I cant notice any colorisation on the greyscale ramp and also no more (as in more that is already there) posterisation.
What base settings are you using for OLED, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Color Gamut, and Color Temp?

Because your upper values without any correction are way better then mine. My average DeltaE for the second half of the grayscale is nearly 10 using the HDR Standard defaults...

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post #1476 of 1960 Old 04-20-2017, 03:36 AM
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I use those settings.

1.hdr standard mode
2.contrast 96
3.oled 100
4.brightness 50
5.color 55
6.tint g+6
7.gamut normal
8.warm 2
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post #1477 of 1960 Old 04-20-2017, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
I use those settings.

1.hdr standard mode
2.contrast 96
3.oled 100
4.brightness 50
5.color 55
6.tint g+6
7.gamut normal
8.warm 2
Thanks!

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post #1478 of 1960 Old 04-21-2017, 03:58 PM
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Well. This is the best I could do without introducing any green tint in the grayscale ramp. Surprisingly I was able to adjust up to value 622.

Better then nothing I suppose.

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post #1479 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Well. This is the best I could do without introducing any green tint in the grayscale ramp. Surprisingly I was able to adjust up to value 622.

Better then nothing I suppose.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
dont think it's clean, i thought it too once, but later i saw that i was wrong and it was tinted
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post #1480 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Well. This is the best I could do without introducing any green tint in the grayscale ramp. Surprisingly I was able to adjust up to value 622.

Better then nothing I suppose.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

1. You have low output @ 100
2. Luminance level @ 7.3 is high,crushed blacks? noticed also on eotf curve at the beginning of it.
3. How much have you touched the controls to level up the luminace drop @ lower half.
4. How does the colorchecker looks like with this cal?
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post #1481 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 04:40 AM
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Hello People

I have a propose to all of you...

Can you confirm on your own pannel the RGB levels are balance around the panel?

I've been testing this with a white 100% window 10% starting with the same one we use to calibrate like a Ted disk.. Then I've been measured the same pattern up on the corner left and on the other corner right.

In the middle of the screen the white 100% was perfectly balance RGB levels but unfortunately over this pattern from the middle, the other two it wasn't.

The differences are so big with green drops down a LOT and R&B are to high...

This is INCREDIBLY UNBELIEVABLE !!!!

This means we just lose time over here guys... I'm sorry for tell you all this...


I mean, I would have waited RGB not perfectly balances but not like this SO far away?


Maybe not everyone here can improve the position of the classical pattern displayed but all you can try a simply ANSI pattern to see what I meaning here...


I also have been tried measures on one movie "The great powerful OZ" on the beginning I measured the sunshine after the moon gone... RGB levels are so different about that area of the screen. I saw Very low Green on there... and the last second scene... Is the one after he drop up a coin after Golden room on the castle. He stars to walk and there is a clouds in the sky.. exactly there I've been taking reads and even there the clouds are far away differences on RGB balance with Green really low an R B higher...


Such differences are really important... And I just guess we all here losing our time to calibrate just the middle of our screens...


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post #1482 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
1. You have low output @ 100
2. Luminance level @ 7.3 is high,crushed blacks? noticed also on eotf curve at the beginning of it.
3. How much have you touched the controls to level up the luminace drop @ lower half.
4. How does the colorchecker looks like with this cal?
So 100 actually stabilizes at a reading of 544cdm after about ten seconds of the pattern being displayed.

Regarding getting luminance in line better, especially at 7.3: I was following Ted's advice and just focusing on RGB values rather then using larger adjustment swings to try and also get perfect tracking.

I'm up early today so I might try another go at it now that I have somewhat good results.

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post #1483 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 05:21 AM
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This is what I mean...

If some of you can here check this out I will VERY couriuos about your final results and your toughness,.. I need to meditate about all this a little bite...







You can also reads the cloud on the very corner of the screen..

Try an ANSI pattern too...

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post #1484 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
2. Luminance level @ 7.3 is high,crushed blacks? noticed also on eotf curve at the beginning of it.
Just to follow up on this point, I believe you said you had the B6 OLED? I have the C6 and it has been shown that only the B6 models allow for adjusting the 7.3 value without serious negative impact. On the C6 and higher models the controls for value 7.3 are so coarse that even one tick +/- throws off the entire color noticeably.
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post #1485 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 07:08 AM
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7.3 is code value 127,thats a no no to touch,mine is untouched,and close to target,on yours it's >twice the luminace target that might hurt your blacks : (
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post #1486 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
This is what I mean...

If some of you can here check this out I will VERY couriuos about your final results and your toughness,.. I need to meditate about all this a little bite...







You can also reads the cloud on the very corner of the screen..

Try an ANSI pattern too...

Those panels are consumer market telly's,they are not stable anywhere : ) hence the difficulty to calibrate,take continous reading on ire100 and white point creeps around on the screen,only thing to do is to figure out how to get the best out of it,and i bet there is more to come how to calibrate oled tv's : )
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post #1487 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
7.3 is code value 127,thats a no no to touch,mine is untouched,and close to target,on yours it's >twice the luminace target that might hurt your blacks : (
Here's the fruit of my newest attempt. Grayscale ramp looks A LOT better and actual content has no issues or tints. Keeping this and calling it a day.

Also, while 7.3 is elevated on my set (not sure why, left brightness at default and didn't touch 127 controls) the Black Clipping pattern still shows 68 (0.5%) just ever so barely flashing with my nose up against the screen and 64 completely dark.

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post #1488 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 09:15 AM
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It might be your meter that spookes things up,if its good its good : )
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post #1489 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 09:27 AM
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It might be your meter that spookes things up,if its good its good : )
My next investment will probably be a new meter. My iD3 has been awesome for SDR but I'm sure I could benefit from an upgrade for HDR readings. We'll see how money pans out later this year.

For now, it looks a lot better than the stock settings so I'll take it!
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post #1490 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
My next investment will probably be a new meter. My iD3 has been awesome for SDR but I'm sure I could benefit from an upgrade for HDR readings. We'll see how money pans out later this year.

For now, it looks a lot better than the stock settings so I'll take it!
If anything, you probably need to profile your i1D3 but that wouldn't account for what you're seeing/measuring on the screen.

As Nicke said, these aren't lab grade panels. You are going to get this kind of variation until they improve the manufacturing where it doesn't stand out as much which is what happened in plasma's evolution.

I wouldn't be so concerned about the corners but put my focus on more of the center mass of the screen. With these OLEDs, that too will be a bit challenging.
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post #1491 of 1960 Old 04-22-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by T( )( )L View Post
Those panels are consumer market telly's,they are not stable anywhere : ) hence the difficulty to calibrate,take continous reading on ire100 and white point creeps around on the screen,only thing to do is to figure out how to get the best out of it,and i bet there is more to come how to calibrate oled tv's : )
I didn't expect find out a perfect and professional display..

Differences not only white will crap after seconds time... also exactly the same pattern around it have RGB differences from one side to the other side on the corners...

So if we took measurements from one area,(middle of the screen) to me that area will be calibrated and not the rest of the screen will be not...

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post #1492 of 1960 Old 04-28-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by L30Z3N View Post
I didn't expect find out a perfect and professional display..

Differences not only white will crap after seconds time... also exactly the same pattern around it have RGB differences from one side to the other side on the corners...

So if we took measurements from one area,(middle of the screen) to me that area will be calibrated and not the rest of the screen will be not...
Yeah but that one area will be awesome.....its what we have to work with.
I have a question for more knowledgable types regarding the "Oled" light setting in user menu. The reason I'm asking it here is because display control and how they affect each other is technically part of calibration. Also I think it has the best chance of being answered here. Anyway being that lg's woled panels have an additional white sub-pixel behind the traditional rgb sub-pixel, is it possible the "oled" setting in user menu controls the drive for the white sub-pixel alone? It seems to behave like a backlight adding output intensity without running out of color or affecting grayscale balance. But it also doesn't seem to be completely decoupled like a traditional backlight...?

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post #1493 of 1960 Old 04-29-2017, 08:59 AM
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Using the new LG UHD UP970 i've finally been able to use the Masciola's test patterns on HDR GAME MODE, this is what i've found:

On Low Black level Clip test : from 0 to 2,5% remains invisible, so they're clipped, but at the same time it allows the highlights to be less clipped than with HDR STANDARD mode, so the thing is, if you use HDR GAME MODE, you'll have to raise the brightness of the game a bit more to do not crush blacks, but also remember that the TV will be about a 20% dimmer anyways, also NOTE THAT DYNAMIC CONTRAST WILL NOT GIVE YOU BACK THE CRUSHED BLACKS!

For UHD playback i've found that since the HDR Standard calibration is just pure sh*t (Since there's no 2 point calibration), the best way to get a bright image is to use HDR VIVID, but you have to make a few changes to it, to delete all that saturation and broken image quality

Since on HDR VIVID the gamut is locked to wide, which is incorrect, you have to low the color to 45 to match the Normal (Automatic) color setting from HDR standard, plus you have to low the Contrast to 90, dont worry, since this mode is about a 20% brighter than HDR standard anyway, taking away those 10 points will do nothing and still will look brighter than HDR Standard, put colour temperature to W50, that will give you the closest white to D65, also low the sharpness to 20

The result is almost the same, colours clips at the same point (Without those tweaks, it clips really soon), color looks the same, but with the difference that you will have a brighter HDR image
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post #1494 of 1960 Old 05-01-2017, 01:03 AM
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For UHD playback i've found that since the HDR Standard calibration is just pure sh*t (Since there's no 2 point calibration), the best way to get a bright image is to use HDR VIVID, but you have to make a few changes to it, to delete all that saturation and broken image quality

Since on HDR VIVID the gamut is locked to wide, which is incorrect, you have to low the color to 45 to match the Normal (Automatic) color setting from HDR standard, plus you have to low the Contrast to 90, dont worry, since this mode is about a 20% brighter than HDR standard anyway, taking away those 10 points will do nothing and still will look brighter than HDR Standard, put colour temperature to W50, that will give you the closest white to D65, also low the sharpness to 20

The result is almost the same, colours clips at the same point (Without those tweaks, it clips really soon), color looks the same, but with the difference that you will have a brighter HDR image
I have not even tried to calibrate HDR as I only have Planet Earth 2.

But is HDR Vivid just using Dynamic Contrast to amp the image. I dialled in your suggestions and PE2 looks amazing, but does it look right?
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post #1495 of 1960 Old 05-01-2017, 02:18 AM
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I have not even tried to calibrate HDR as I only have Planet Earth 2.

But is HDR Vivid just using Dynamic Contrast to amp the image. I dialled in your suggestions and PE2 looks amazing, but does it look right?
The same mode HDR GAME is dimmer, HDR VIVID is brighter, using Masciola's HDR patterns and doing what i've said, you have the same color clipping that with HDR Standard, but the image is still brighter
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post #1496 of 1960 Old 05-01-2017, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256k View Post
Using the new LG UHD UP970 i've finally been able to use the Masciola's test patterns on HDR GAME MODE, this is what i've found:

On Low Black level Clip test : from 0 to 2,5% remains invisible, so they're clipped, but at the same time it allows the highlights to be less clipped than with HDR STANDARD mode, so the thing is, if you use HDR GAME MODE, you'll have to raise the brightness of the game a bit more to do not crush blacks, but also remember that the TV will be about a 20% dimmer anyways, also NOTE THAT DYNAMIC CONTRAST WILL NOT GIVE YOU BACK THE CRUSHED BLACKS!

For UHD playback i've found that since the HDR Standard calibration is just pure sh*t (Since there's no 2 point calibration), the best way to get a bright image is to use HDR VIVID, but you have to make a few changes to it, to delete all that saturation and broken image quality

Since on HDR VIVID the gamut is locked to wide, which is incorrect, you have to low the color to 45 to match the Normal (Automatic) color setting from HDR standard, plus you have to low the Contrast to 90, dont worry, since this mode is about a 20% brighter than HDR standard anyway, taking away those 10 points will do nothing and still will look brighter than HDR Standard, put colour temperature to W50, that will give you the closest white to D65, also low the sharpness to 20

The result is almost the same, colours clips at the same point (Without those tweaks, it clips really soon), color looks the same, but with the difference that you will have a brighter HDR image
Hi 256k, do you mind, sharing your HDR Game Mode settings? Also HDR Vivid? Curious to get a baseline to start with. Did you modify anything else in HDR GAME mode, based off R. Masciola's patterns?

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post #1497 of 1960 Old 05-01-2017, 03:33 PM
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Quick question:

Does lowering OLED Light output post-grayscale calibration affect tracking? I.E. - Do I need to redo my grayscale calibration if I change OLED Light?

Thanks
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post #1498 of 1960 Old 05-02-2017, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
Quick question:

Does lowering OLED Light output post-grayscale calibration affect tracking? I.E. - Do I need to redo my grayscale calibration if I change OLED Light?

Thanks
Hi, yes, it will affect your Grayscale changing the RGB balance, take a Grayscale measurement run to see if you are satisfied with deviation and decide if you will need to re-calibrate to reduce the errors introduced; or use another slot to save the settings for difference OLED Light setting (different peak output levels).

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Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; 05-02-2017 at 02:06 AM.
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post #1499 of 1960 Old 05-02-2017, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, yes, it will affect your Grayscale changing the RGB balance, take a Grayscale measurement run to see if you are satisfied with deviation and decide if you will need to re-calibrate to reduce the errors introduced; or use another slot to save the settings for difference OLED Light setting (different peak output levels).
Thanks Ted. I'll do a quick run through and see how much it might have changed.

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post #1500 of 1960 Old 05-03-2017, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by samuel.c.casilla View Post
Hi 256k, do you mind, sharing your HDR Game Mode settings? Also HDR Vivid? Curious to get a baseline to start with. Did you modify anything else in HDR GAME mode, based off R. Masciola's patterns?

OLED55C6P PS4 PRO Comcast Xfinity 200+ MB Internet
For HDR GAME:

Color Gamut Normal (Auto)
Black level low (On 4K the HDR of PS4 is always limited)
Color 55 (not 65 as default)
W50

Then on all In-game settings just DOUBLE the brightness setting that HDR Standard uses, example

HDR Standard uncharted 4: Brightness at 5, so on HDR GAME put it at 10
HDR Standard FFXV : Brightness at 50, so on HDR GAME put it at 100
HDR Standard on RE7: Brighness at 250 / 1100 (On the match white pattern), so on HDR GAME is Brightness at 500 / 1300 (The white patch now has more nits since this mode clips LATER than any other HDR mode, thats why also by default it's "dimmer", when you do the Brghtness tweak, HDR GAME mode will have the exact brightness of HDR Standard, not more
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