Calibration with Spyder5/DisplayCal, just not working for me. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 02-28-2017, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Calibration with Spyder5/DisplayCal, just not working for me.

I’ve been trying to use DisplayCal with my Spyder5 colorimeter for a while and just not getting much in the way of useful results. I’m calibrating a Sony 930D, which I use for TV, HT and would like to use for FinalCut color correction.

I’ve gone through setting the RGB Gain and Brightness in the initial stage (Display type is set to White LED and everything else is pretty much set to Auto), then I set color and hue with DVE and a color filter. I ran the calibration with about 900 patches and the Verification afterward showed everything within expected tolerances, but it just doesn’t look right.

I understand you have to have some reference point to know whether it’s correct, but I have a lot of Blu-ray material that I’m very familiar with. I watch these discs on PowerDVD with the current calibration and it just looks dark, dull and with a brown cast to everything. I can switch the TV to a stock menu setting and the picture shows a substantial improvement. A while back I tried running a calibration with the same setup on my laptop screen and it didn’t work either, everything had a blue cast to it.

At this point I’m wondering what I should do. Try the Spyder Express software that came with the Spyder5? Try HCFR (I'd like to find a video tutorial, but for some reason I can’t seem to find any on YouTube)?
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post #2 of 8 Old 02-28-2017, 09:56 AM
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I would suggest using HCFR with the AVSHD 709 patterns disc. DisplayCal is really for calibrating a computer/monitor combination. It will generate a icc file that is used in the computer by certain software (but not most). So if you are trying to calibrate just a TV, I would suggest HCFR as the best tool.
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post #3 of 8 Old 02-28-2017, 10:10 AM
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The Spyder 5 is also not the greatest meter. The X-Rite I1 Display Pro (AKA I1D3) costs more than the Spyder but will do a much better job.

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post #4 of 8 Old 03-08-2017, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forkenbrock View Post
I’ve been trying to use DisplayCal with my Spyder5 colorimeter for a while and just not getting much in the way of useful results. I’m calibrating a Sony 930D, which I use for TV, HT and would like to use for FinalCut color correction.

I’ve gone through setting the RGB Gain and Brightness in the initial stage (Display type is set to White LED and everything else is pretty much set to Auto), then I set color and hue with DVE and a color filter. I ran the calibration with about 900 patches and the Verification afterward showed everything within expected tolerances, but it just doesn’t look right.

I understand you have to have some reference point to know whether it’s correct, but I have a lot of Blu-ray material that I’m very familiar with. I watch these discs on PowerDVD with the current calibration and it just looks dark, dull and with a brown cast to everything. I can switch the TV to a stock menu setting and the picture shows a substantial improvement. A while back I tried running a calibration with the same setup on my laptop screen and it didn’t work either, everything had a blue cast to it.

At this point I’m wondering what I should do. Try the Spyder Express software that came with the Spyder5? Try HCFR (I'd like to find a video tutorial, but for some reason I can’t seem to find any on YouTube)?
Hi, Spyder meters are not so good to low luminance patch reading, as you can see from the following picture (the crosses away from the REC.709 triangle of the CIE Chart are bad/failed readings...coming from dark patches inaccurate measurements) from a test Steve Shaw performed (CEO of LightIllusion) show the poor performance of Spyder 4/5 meters where they fail to read properly dark colors.



When you buy a new Spyder 5 meter, it's color accuracy is like playing a lottery, so even new meters have large unit-to-unit differences to the measurements, this is why they are not recommended from calibration software companies. (You can fix the color accuracy issue if you create a 4-color matrix meter correction table using a software that supports that (not Spyder software).

Here you can see Tom's Huffman (ChromaPure) test: New Spyder 5 vs. i1Display Pro / ColorMunki Display

LightSpace and CalMAN also are not recommending to use Spyder meters for accurate calibration work.

I'm suggesting you to save some money and invest when you are ready to i1Display PRO; which is proven as better instrument for more accurate results.

i1Display PRO is supported by all calibration software solutions like CalMAN/ChromaPure/DispcalGUI/ArgyllCMS/LightSpace HTL or free ones like HCFR or LightSpace DPS.

i1Display PRO has glass dichroic filters which are sealed with rubber o-rings. So by design it will extended it's meter life and prevent drifting.

X-Rite's i1Display PRO is a better choice, it has more display technologies correction tables, it's faster, more stable, better low light measurements and it's been supported by all available calibration software (CalMAN/ChromaPure/LightSpace/ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI/HCFR)

With i11Display PRO you will be able to calibrate all your PC monitors (unlimited number) also with the X-Rite i1Profiler that is coming with the meter, something you can't do with C3 (without spending money to get CalMAN's RGB or CalMAN Enthusiast which gives you the capability to calibrate 3 different monitors).

As we know the Rev.B has updated hardware/firmware that supports a new refresh rate detection and synchronization (AIO).

The latest generation of i1Display PRO (Rev.B) it features a new refresh rate detection and synchronization AIO (All in One) measurement mode which can improve the measurement stability for certain displays and provide lower reading times.

According to feedback I have from a Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk user which is using LightSpace HTL + i1DisplayPRO Rev.B + KURO + eeColor and he has performed a lot of testing using LightSpace's 'Measure and log' where it exports in excel (CVS) file format the xyY and the measuring times per each read in milliseconds, for us to find by comparing the data's which mode and integration time settings is giving him better repeatability while it has faster measuring speed (Test Procedure Link)....we found by comparing the data's between AIO vs. Burst Mode (Rev. A using Burst mode for Plasma) from i1DisplayPRO Rev.B Meter that that new AIO mode is about 30-50% faster from Burst Mode of Rev. A from the data I have.

AIO mode is supported from only from LightSpace and ChromaPure, HCFR/DisplayCAL/ArgyllCMS has also custom code for providing similar results with adaptive exposure times/sync modes without using AIO mode.

About your procedure with DVE and filters, it's not working, avoid that, it's only a waste of time.

CMS Calibration is not possible by only looking build in filters or by any type of $1 filter that is coming with disks or by photographic use quality and more expensive ones (Rosco E-Colour Tokyo Blue #071 or Lee Sheet Colour Filter #071 Tokyo or Kodak Deep Blue Tricolor #47B).

Blue Filter Glasses are useless for displays other than CRT.

Blue filters used before 10-15 years mainly for CRT Displays where only Color/Tint controls were available for CMS; the calibration software/meter access were so limited and so expensive.....now in 2017 you can get an amazing for the performance colorimeter like X-Rite's i1Display PRO and by using an open source software for free (like HCFR or LightSpace DPS), there is no reason to use any blue filter anymore.

Now most of the displays are coming with 6-Axis CMS controls.

Blue filters (on CRT) can work where for example the Red Primary is fully saturated and have no blue or green...blue primary has no green or red etc....But a fully saturated Primary needs to have the other 2 primaries added to be able to de-saturated it to it's target....so viewing thru the blue filter you will have light coming from all three primaries and this will make it's blue filter purpose of matching the luminance method no longer work.

When you will buy a colorimeter and use a software to perform a gamut calibration, when you will have calibrated the display full CMS, look throu the blue filter....you will see that it will look so bad. Blue filters designed to work for display that their primaries are tracking REC.709, now all modern displays have wider gamut coverage from REC.709, this is another one reason that Blue Filter is not worth it to use nowadays.

There free calibration software solutions, you can download:

1) HCFR from here with support forum topic: HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software

2) The Free DPS version of LightSpace CMS can be used also with an i1Display PRO meter, there available to read various guides on the Light Illusion website.

The specific guide for use with LightSpace DPS is here.

But there is a lot of potentially useful/interesting info in the various guides on the website also.

Support forum topic: Free LightSpace DPS - Manual Display Calibration

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #5 of 8 Old 03-09-2017, 05:09 PM
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@forkenbrock the X930D is not a White LED backlight. That is very likely your problem.
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post #6 of 8 Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
@forkenbrock the X930D is not a White LED backlight. That is very likely your problem.
I am yet to find the description of the various options in HCFR fr the display type.
Why is this display not a White LED backlight? And how can I find out what kind of backlight does my set have??
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post #7 of 8 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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You would need to find a spec sheet from the OEM of the panel, ask the manufacturer or use a spectrophotometer to get a graph of the wavelengths of light.

Most (or all?) of Sony's recent HDR TV's have a narrow spectrum backlight to cover more of the R.2020 gamut. I believe they're currently using quantium dot backlight panels from AUO and LG.

Anyway, you can basically just assume any TV covering a decent portion of DCI-P3 or R.2020 has a narrow spectrum backlight.

Edit: Calibrate 90% white on a SDR display with a normal WLED backlight and place it side by side with your X930D. Then go ahead and calibrate 90% white on the X930D and see which spectral profile matches the white-point best (I would say to compare R, G & B too but the 2016 Sony's don't have a CMS).

Last edited by Quad5Ny; Yesterday at 05:48 PM.
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post #8 of 8 Old Today, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
Edit: Calibrate 90% white on a SDR display with a normal WLED backlight and place it side by side with your X930D. Then go ahead and calibrate 90% white on the X930D and see which spectral profile matches the white-point best (I would say to compare R, G & B too but the 2016 Sony's don't have a CMS).
This approach is used for professional display calibration in display that suffer Metameric Failure:

http://www.lightillusion.com/percept...our_match.html

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

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