Best meter for under $1000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
  • 1 Post By Kamikaze_Ice
  • 2 Post By gwgill
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 03-15-2017, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Best meter for under $1000

I currently have an old (c. 2003) X-rite dtp94, and a Sypder4 (for use with JVC Autocal). I would like recommendations for the best (most accurate?, repeatable?, low drift?) meter. Budget under $1000.

Thanks in advance.

Rick
rak306 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 03-16-2017, 04:28 AM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 34
i1 Pro 2 (Amazon warehouse deals has i1Photo Pro 2's for $900-ish), and a Retail or OEM i1 Display3 depending on what software package you're using. - Heck you could grab a ColorMunki display if you only want to use open source stuff as they're all the same meter (HCFR and DisplayCAL for example).

If you don't have any exotic backlight types on your displays then you can probably get away with only a Colorimeter.
Quad5Ny is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 03-19-2017, 08:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,855
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
I currently have an old (c. 2003) X-rite dtp94, and a Sypder4 (for use with JVC Autocal). I would like recommendations for the best (most accurate?, repeatable?, low drift?) meter. Budget under $1000.

Thanks in advance.

Rick
What kind of displays are you calibrating and which software package are you using?
JimP is online now  
 
post #4 of 21 Old 03-19-2017, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
What kind of displays are you calibrating and which software package are you using?
A JVC RS600 front screen projector. I use HCFR currently, but may purchase Calman.
rak306 is online now  
post #5 of 21 Old 03-20-2017, 03:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,855
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 601
For that projector, a good starting place is an i1display https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...rite+i1display

The basic problem for any colorimeter whether its a $250 one or a $7,000 one is that it should be profiled using a spectrometer. Then you find that the spectros in your price range aren't that great either. It gets to be something of a money pit.

Before going further, consider that you might do well to get your projector professionally calibrated. You might even go as far as buying the i1d3, Calman and have your calibrator use their spectro to profile your meter and give you the file to put into Calman. Now that'll only be good for that projector tech. Don't expect a DLP profile to work on a plasma or an OLED.
JimP is online now  
post #6 of 21 Old 03-20-2017, 04:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Light Illusion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 340 Post(s)
Liked: 645
The best 'probe' in that price range is the i1D3 and i1Pro(2) combination.
You can then use the Spectro to pre-calibrate the Colourimetr...
If you can find a good second-hand i1Pro revD the combination should be well below your target figure.

See http://www.lightillusion.com/probe_use.html for some info on using a comb probe set.

Steve

Steve Shaw
LIGHT ILLUSION

Light Illusion is online now  
post #7 of 21 Old 03-20-2017, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The best 'probe' in that price range is the i1D3 and i1Pro(2) combination.
You can then use the Spectro to pre-calibrate the Colourimetr...
If you can find a good second-hand i1Pro revD the combination should be well below your target figure.

See http://www.lightillusion.com/probe_use.html for some info on using a comb probe set.

Steve
Thanks Steve,

I can't find any accuracy (or drift) specs on the i1D3. Do you have any feel on what they might be?
rak306 is online now  
post #8 of 21 Old 03-20-2017, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
For that projector, a good starting place is an i1display https://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-i1Disp...rite+i1display

The basic problem for any colorimeter whether its a $250 one or a $7,000 one is that it should be profiled using a spectrometer. Then you find that the spectros in your price range aren't that great either. It gets to be something of a money pit.

Before going further, consider that you might do well to get your projector professionally calibrated. You might even go as far as buying the i1d3, Calman and have your calibrator use their spectro to profile your meter and give you the file to put into Calman. Now that'll only be good for that projector tech. Don't expect a DLP profile to work on a plasma or an OLED.
Using a pro calibration, followed by the calibrator using his spectro to profile my meter is a good idea. Especially since I probably can only competently adjust gray scale, because the built in CMS is a bit suspect. (What good does knowing "exactly" how far out of cal you are if you can't adjust it back on, so using a pro calibrator does make sense.)
rak306 is online now  
post #9 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
The best 'probe' in that price range is the i1D3 and i1Pro(2) combination.
You can then use the Spectro to pre-calibrate the Colourimetr...
If you can find a good second-hand i1Pro revD the combination should be well below your target figure.

See http://www.lightillusion.com/probe_use.html for some info on using a comb probe set.

Steve
I have a question about accuracy requirements. The high end Colorimetry Research CR-250 specs an absolute accuracy of ± 0.0015 x, y. According to curtpalme.com, my old x-rite DTP-94 had an accuracy of Chromaticity: x,y +-0.005, or about 3 times worse than the CR-250.

Now I'm sure my c.2004 DTP-94 has degraded over time, but I am wondering what accuracy is required to be not visible.

Finally, since I have the DTP-94, can I use the i1 pro spectro to profile the DTP-94, and achieve as good a result as i would using the i1 display pro, profiled by the i1 pro spectro?


Thanks
rak306 is online now  
post #10 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 06:26 PM
Member
 
Quad5Ny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
I have a question about accuracy requirements. The high end Colorimetry Research CR-250 specs an absolute accuracy of ± 0.0015 x, y. According to curtpalme.com, my old x-rite DTP-94 had an accuracy of Chromaticity: x,y +-0.005, or about 3 times worse than the CR-250.

Now I'm sure my c.2004 DTP-94 has degraded over time, but I am wondering what accuracy is required to be not visible.

Finally, since I have the DTP-94, can I use the i1 pro spectro to profile the DTP-94, and achieve as good a result as i would using the i1 display pro, profiled by the i1 pro spectro?


Thanks
A 0.005 shift in x or y is quite visible.

Lets take D65 which is
x 0.31271
y 0.32902

Now add and subtract 0.005 from x and y respectively:
x 0.31771
y 0.32402

That gives you a new color temperature of 6263K and a CIE2000 dE of 6.7.

---

As for profiling the DTP-94 off of the spectro, I would be worried the Y readings (xyY) are not accurate after all these years. Which would result in your EOTF being all over the place.
Quad5Ny is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 06:28 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,855
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
...snip... but I am wondering what accuracy is required to be not visible.
A dE 2000 of 3 or less is considered to not be visible but what I've found is that some colors can have errors lower than 3 and still be decernable as not matching the target. Once you hit .7, then its pretty much a match for all colors. Then you have memory colors. Are you really likely to know that a certain shade of blue isn't right? Probably not unless you have a reference quality display next to yours.

About your discussion on spectro accuracy. It seems like once you get above .003 in either x or y, then it starts creating problems. From a broader view, you might have additional errors that when you add them all together becomes significant. As you probably already know, the lower error spectros cost serious money. That's why I often recommend using Chad B. You basically would have to have 40 to 50 calibrations to break even on the equipment. Before then, the tech will have changed a few more times that cost you more in equipment.

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is online now  
post #12 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
A 0.005 shift in x or y is quite visible.

Lets take D65 which is
x 0.31271
y 0.32902

Now add and subtract 0.005 from x and y respectively:
x 0.31771
y 0.32402

That gives you a new color temperature of 6263K and a CIE2000 dE of 6.7.

---

As for profiling the DTP-94 off of the spectro, I would be worried the Y readings (xyY) are not accurate after all these years. Which would result in your EOTF being all over the place.
Thanks.

While I could tell the difference between 2 patches of white next to each other, (one 6500, and the other 6260), I'm not sure if I walked into a room and saw the first one, then walked out and came back in to room and saw the second one, whether I would notice the difference.
rak306 is online now  
post #13 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
...That's why I often recommend using Chad B. You basically would have to have 40 to 50 calibrations to break even on the equipment. Before then, the tech will have changed a few more times that cost you more in equipment.
Thanks.

The only spectro within my budget would be the i1 pro.

I am considering Chad B, regardless of if I get a new meter or not. He offers profiling for a reasonable fee, and by reputation, does an excellent job of calibration.
rak306 is online now  
post #14 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 07:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Kamikaze_Ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
A dE 2000 of 3 or less is considered to not be visible but what I've found is that some colors can have errors lower than 3 and still be decernable as not matching the target. Once you hit .7, then its pretty much a match for all colors. Then you have memory colors. Are you really likely to know that a certain shade of blue isn't right? Probably not unless you have a reference quality display next to yours.

About your discussion on spectro accuracy. It seems like once you get above .003 in either x or y, then it starts creating problems. From a broader view, you might have additional errors that when you add them all together becomes significant. As you probably already know, the lower error spectros cost serious money. That's why I often recommend using Chad B. You basically would have to have 40 to 50 calibrations to break even on the equipment. Before then, the tech will have changed a few more times that cost you more in equipment.
To add to this:
The kind of "perceptional" difference being implied can be compared to how well one can catch a ball with one eye open vs two eyes open. There is a huge difference at first (i.e. comparing screens side by side) but after a few minutes your brain adjusts and it's no where near as hard (general consensus/rule of thumb of <3 dE CIE2000).

Ted Aspiotis has a post around here where he has some examples ("Can you spot the difference?" kind of examples), but I don't have the link to it off hand. If he replies I'm sure he could link it if he thinks it would help.


As for getting your own equipment vs calibrator....
There will be a lot to learn. A. LOT.
To make things simpler, think about the cost:time:time=money ratio of your options.
If you have alot of free time, you may enjoy learning about calibration and want to become one yourself

Personally I'm all for spreading the joy and anguish of calibration to others, but honestly it's just not for some people. I'm sure you can figure this out at this point with all the comments so far.
Either way, you will have a nice picture once things are all said and done
rak306 likes this.
Kamikaze_Ice is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 03-22-2017, 09:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
gwgill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 925
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Liked: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad5Ny View Post
As for profiling the DTP-94 off of the spectro, I would be worried the Y readings (xyY) are not accurate after all these years. Which would result in your EOTF being all over the place.
While a difference in absolute Y value is quite probable due differences in factory calibration standards and procedures, it's somewhat unlikely that the EOTF will be affected, since silicon sensors don't have any particular tendency to become non-linear. It may need a (self) calibration of it's internal two ranges though (ArgyllCMS can be used for this).
rak306 and Quad5Ny like this.
gwgill is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 03-23-2017, 12:24 AM
Member
 
Bloodwound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Still have a dtp94 and dtp94b laying around. They're great and high quality and use glass filters, but really the i1DPro is better and you don't need a black calibration every 10 minutes. However, if you can live with this, then the DTP94(b) will do an excellent job.

Also the drivers are really unstable in Windows 10 and can lead to bluescreens. For some reason it doesn't crash when using my USB3 port, and I think a USB hub is also safe. But the normal USB 2.0 ports result to that dreaded bluescreen.
Bloodwound is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 03-24-2017, 04:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Kamikaze_Ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodwound View Post
Still have a dtp94 and dtp94b laying around. They're great and high quality and use glass filters, but really the i1DPro is better and you don't need a black calibration every 10 minutes. However, if you can live with this, then the DTP94(b) will do an excellent job.

Also the drivers are really unstable in Windows 10 and can lead to bluescreens. For some reason it doesn't crash when using my USB3 port, and I think a USB hub is also safe. But the normal USB 2.0 ports result to that dreaded bluescreen.
I think this is limited to ASMedia controller-controled ports.
I've got both Intel and ASMedia controllers on my Asrock Z170 OC Formula and only the ASMedia ports give me random blue screens (even when using hubs or extensions).
This is not the motherboard either. I've got 4 other computers on older chipsets (forget motherboards, but 1xAsrock, 1xAsus, 2xGigabyte, all between Sandybridge chipsets) and had the same behavior (only ASMedia controller ports = random bluescreens when (de)connecting to the ports). And it's not limited to rear ports either, as front case ports have the same behavior when using them (also tied to ASMedia or Intel controllers)

Using a hub didn't "prevent" the issue so it's not a loose connection or power limitation either. I'm not really bothered any more by it so I've not investigated any more into it now, and only a few others seems to share this behavior over at overclock.net or hardforums.
Kamikaze_Ice is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 03-25-2017, 03:19 AM
Member
 
Bloodwound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 28
YMMV. My USB3 port (Renesas) on my laptop worked fine, if I remember correctly. But I blame the drivers. They were made for Windows 7, not W10. Of course, if you have a dedicated laptop just for calibration, then W7 is still a good choice.

If the DTP94 didn't need black readings every 10 minutes, I'd see no big reason to spend 250 bucks on an i1dPro.

But I agree with Light Illusion that an i1pro2 and i1display Pro is a really good combination. The i1pro2 is a really great device that has never let me down.

If you are really on the cheap, then an used i1pro to profile the dtp94 would probably net you great results as well. But then you'll have to live with that nagging "what if" voice in back of your head..
Bloodwound is online now  
post #19 of 21 Old 03-25-2017, 03:45 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,855
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 601
If you're having a problem with a usb 3 input on your computer, be sure to read this...http://www.xrite.com/service-support...s_With_USB_3_0

Klein K-10A, CR250, i1D3, i1Pro2, Calman Enthusiast, LG 65B6P, Panasonic 65VT50, and a great wife that puts up with all this.:)
JimP is online now  
post #20 of 21 Old Today, 01:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1222 Post(s)
Liked: 1727
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
Thanks Steve,

I can't find any accuracy (or drift) specs on the i1D3. Do you have any feel on what they might be?
Hi, here are some specs about i1Display PRO: http://www.vpixx.com/datasheets/ds_i1display_pro.pdf

i1Display PRO has glass dichroic filters which are sealed with rubber o-rings, so by that design it will extended it's meter life and prevent drifting.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is online now  
post #21 of 21 Old Today, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 887
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, here are some specs about i1Display PRO: http://www.vpixx.com/datasheets/ds_i1display_pro.pdf

i1Display PRO has glass dichroic filters which are sealed with rubber o-rings, so by that design it will extended it's meter life and prevent drifting.
Thanks
rak306 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Display Calibration



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off