LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi John,

The problem is the LG is recommending to enter % values to CalMAN editor, but the percentage they have posted they are not matching the digital values they have posted also (if you look what percentage and digital levels has the Dolby's Golden Reference data file), they are 0.1% off....so we are not sure which data from LG are wrong, the percentage of the digital levels...
Is there any way to get clarification directly from LG?

LGOLED55C7P - Calman Enthusiast - I1Display / I1Pro
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post #452 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MrFlooD View Post
Ok, to translate into simple steps. (These assume I have already let my TV and sensor warm-up, and my gray-scale calibration is complete. Also, I will be using GDC disk so round down not required)

1) Open HCFR and select 100% white value and take reading of 100% Gray window pattern on GDC disk. HCFR will now base my DeltaE target based on this reading.


2) Move over to primary and secondary section in HCFR. Select the proper 100% saturation window pattern for each color via GDC disk. Select realtime readings & adjust saturation, tint, luminance until delteE < 2 (my target will be <1, but understand that can be hard with color)

3) Preform sweep to confirm everything aligns with CIE .

Miss anything ?
All good, keep a pre-calibration with saturation sweep for backup to know how the display was before CMS adjustments, to compare it later with post-adjustments report of saturation sweep.
Thanks again, followed these steps and now everything looks great.

Now off into the crazy world of HDR WB calibration
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post #453 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Is there any way to get clarification directly from LG?
You can try contact the support line.

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post #454 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
^^^ LG is using 10 bit code values which is what 2084 is based. I'm not sure how they arrive at the values since last year's sets used different values but my experience, matching them as close as you can with the levels editor works just fine even though they are slightly off.
What are you ticking in levels editor drop down, percentages, 8, 10 bit.?
What are you 'matching as close as you can with levels editor and to what'?

ss
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post #455 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Sorry MrFlood, I didn't see your post before posting this.



I like using these settings, OLED light around 42, Contrast around 77, brightness around 50 to 52. Edge Enhancer off.



Probably not, but it depends on your meter and is ASBL is kicking in. A calibration disc like S&M is pretty good to set your brightness setting.



Yes that will work
100 cd/m2 for Plasma's, but you can easily raise that level to between 130 cd/m2 to 155 cd/m2 depending on eye strain with the OLED



Don't use a APL pattern, just use a 10% or less window pattern with black background.



Luminance is more of a Gamut adjustment, but yes for your Y value you can use any 'IRE' point you want.



Start with setting your 100 'IRE' point, probably use the two point to start with 30 and 100 in Calman.

Start by using the 2 point (100/30) in Calman to get close to your 100 'IRE' and 30 'IRE' using the two point High and Low settings in your OLED running the two point test. Then run the 21 point GS test in Calman to see what H/L settings in your OLED work best. You probably will have to run many 21 point GS test to zero in on what H/L settings gives you the best tracking of your grayscale.
You can also use this before you make any changes in your 21 point OLED settings to fine turn your grayscale. That's how I calibrate the 21 point grayscale, also once you set your 100% white point don't change it.
Keep in mind that Calman doesn't use 'IRE' in its 21 point adjustment page it uses values, so you have to figure out what value goes with what adjustment setting in the OLED if you want to adjust the 21 point setting in your OLED.

Tip, if possible don't use the Green adjustment in the first 4 points of your 21 point grayscale settings. If you need to don't raise and only lower just a little, same goes for your High/Low settings.


Hope this helps.

ss
So for setting brightness I can use the AVS HD 709 disk? I am using an i1 display for my meter. I does seem I good idea to use the meter as it really hard to set it by eye.

So if I follow correctly use the 2 point adjustment in the TV then move onto the 20 point in the TV?

So IRE 100 does not correspond to 100% on the grayscale?

How am I supposed to work out what IRE controls which part of the grayscale?

Was also wondering if the service menu tells you how many hours of use the TV has had?

If so how do you enter the service menu?

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 09-11-2017 at 03:13 PM.
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post #456 of 561 Old 09-11-2017, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So for setting brightness I can use the AVS HD 709 disk? I am using an i1 display for my meter. I does seem I good idea to use the meter as it really hard to set it by eye.

So if I follow correctly use the 2 point adjustment in the TV then move onto the 20 point in the TV?
Yes you probably need a color compactor to match the shades of gray or any color. If you look in calmans 21 point grayscale quick check you will see little boxes that have the correct color of each gray value and the meter measure color. Of course that is saying that your PC's screen is setup correctly.
Measuring the color with a meter is the better way to go.

I sounds like you are just learning how to calibrate.
So to start with just using the High/Low settings in your OLED, and then look at a 21 point step grayscale in AVS HD 709. Look for any colors that are not gray, from dark to light gray.

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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So IRE 100 does not correspond to 100% on the grayscale?
For video level, that's what you want to set for your white point IRE 100.

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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
How am I supposed to work out what IRE controls which part of the grayscale?
If you just start by using the High/Low settings in your OLED, you don't have to worry about the match up between Calman's values and the IRE values in your OLED settings.
If you want to use the 20 point grayscale settings in your OLED, then you have to match up what IRE matches what value in the grayscale settings that calman uses.

The reason why I suggest using 20 point test in calman is so you can see how your Gamma, Color temp (D65), light output are tracking over the 20 points after you have set your 100/30 with using H/L settings in your OLED.
If things look odd then just start over.

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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Was also wondering if the service menu tells you how many hours of use the TV has had?
Don't need to enter the service menu for hours, click on device, about this TV and look for the hours.

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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
If so how do you enter the service menu?
I use a LG service remote for other things, but no need to just see the hours, I use the normal users menu for that.
The biggest reason why I use the service menu is to turn off ASBL.
If you have a static picture on your screen, like a 10% window when calibrating your OLED it will start to dim in about 90+ seconds. If that happens your reading from your meter will be incorrect.

In your case for now, don't play with the service menu.

ss

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post #457 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So for setting brightness I can use the AVS HD 709 disk? I am using an i1 display for my meter. I does seem I good idea to use the meter as it really hard to set it by eye.

So if I follow correctly use the 2 point adjustment in the TV then move onto the 20 point in the TV?

So IRE 100 does not correspond to 100% on the grayscale?

How am I supposed to work out what IRE controls which part of the grayscale?

Was also wondering if the service menu tells you how many hours of use the TV has had?

If so how do you enter the service menu?
Hi,

There a lot of times where the names of the consumer TV adjustment controls can confuse the users.

LG's are are still using 'IRE' which is unit coming from CRT analog world, for measurements with component video signal, now since a lot of years he have only digital transmission, they have to change the controls to percentages, 10% Gray etc... 100% White.

They say Brightness....someone will think that this is adjusting the display's back-light for more peak output.....the correct term is Black Level.

They say Contrast, the correct term is White Level.

If you are using HCFR, then do this to fix an issue or levels mismatch of AVSHD disk: LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

If you are using CalMAN/ChromaPure then see this: AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration

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Anyone else who normally thinks nothing of whipping out their calibration equipment to tweak their display thinking that although HDR sounds interesting that they'll just wait until 1) there's more content available) 2) it doesn't sound like brain surgery to calibrate it?
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It can be very dangerous to use the engineering remote...
You can easily cause irreversible damage to the TV.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums...ic=423#msg2662

If you know what you are doing, and are very, very careful you should be ok.
But it can be all to easy to cause such damage.

Steve

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post #460 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
It can be very dangerous to use the engineering remote...
You can easily cause irreversible damage to the TV.

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/forums...ic=423#msg2662

If you know what you are doing, and are very, very careful you should be ok.
But it can be all to easy to cause such damage.

Steve
Thanks for the tip Steve Can you clarify the information in that post? Not a criticism, but a lot of the statements are contradicting themselves, with double negatives and missing punctuation. I really want to understand the HDR mode in the service menu. As these OLEDs are just not hitting the correct absolute luminance levels from 0-500 nits, i would love to be able to unlock the displays full potential (with the understanding of a roll off past the panel's peak brightness)

From what i can understand, by changing this setting in the service menu, the tv will follow the pq eotf luminance levels more accurately, up until the panel's limitations ~750 nits. Is that right?

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It should be correct now...

Steve

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post #462 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Anyone else who normally thinks nothing of whipping out their calibration equipment to tweak their display thinking that although HDR sounds interesting that they'll just wait until 1) there's more content available) 2) it doesn't sound like brain surgery to calibrate it?
I got great results calibrating HDR with just 2 PT WB as 20 point was a pain so I left it .
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post #463 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 11:56 AM
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It should be correct now...

Steve
What would happen to a 4000 nit signal being sent to the Oled with the HDR mode on? Would anything above the panel's native ability clip? Does 300 nits display as 300 nits on the panel (as long as ABL isnt kicking in)? As good as my b7 is, my panasonic dx800 measured and displayed HDR signals up to 500 nits very well - and had a nice smooth roll off past that. I cant seem to get that performance from the LG
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post #464 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 12:58 PM
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I am unable to adjust the Black Level on my 55E7P, it is grayed out it AUTO. I am using "isf Expert (Dark Room)" for the picture mode setting. Thank you for any advice.

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post #465 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by amdfanTO View Post
Thanks for the tip Steve Can you clarify the information in that post? Not a criticism, but a lot of the statements are contradicting themselves, with double negatives and missing punctuation. I really want to understand the HDR mode in the service menu. As these OLEDs are just not hitting the correct absolute luminance levels from 0-500 nits, i would love to be able to unlock the displays full potential (with the understanding of a roll off past the panel's peak brightness)

From what i can understand, by changing this setting in the service menu, the tv will follow the pq eotf luminance levels more accurately, up until the panel's limitations ~750 nits. Is that right?
From how I read Steve's post all you are doing is turning off HDR mode and metadata processing.
You would be back in SDR mode, so its pointless to turn off HDR mode when viewing or calibrating HDR formatted video. You must have some sort of a way to process the metadata info that is on a HDR formatted video disc (HDR Blu Ray), otherwise the PQ will be crap in most if not all cases.

When calibrating video grayscale in HDR mode, I get peak nits (Y) of between 720 and 730.
When calibrating in SDR mode you really don't want to go over about 155 nits, because you will start to clip at that point.

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post #466 of 561 Old 09-12-2017, 02:02 PM
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I am unable to adjust the Black Level on my 55E7P, it is grayed out it AUTO. I am using "isf Expert (Dark Room)" for the picture mode setting. Thank you for any advice.
To adjust black level you would use the 'Brightness' control in your LG OLED's settings.

Default setting is dark for video level (movies, TV,), the only time you would use the light setting is if you are sending a PC level video signal that is outputting video range (0-255)

ss

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
To adjust black level you would use the 'Brightness' control in your LG OLED's settings.
dark, if you are sending your OLED a PC signal (0-255) or a video signal (16-235).
Default setting is dark for video level (movies, TV,), the only time you would use the light setting is if you are sending a PC level video signal that is outputting video range (0-255)

ss
Thank you, ss!

Steve
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Thank you, ss!
I edited my post, so its not as confusing. I thought I took out the part that I now have edited before I posted it originally.

Away you got my meaning, that's good.

ss

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
From how I read Steve's post all you are doing is turning off HDR mode and metadata processing.
You would be back in SDR mode, so its pointless to turn off HDR mode when viewing or calibrating HDR formatted video. You must have some sort of a way to process the metadata info that is on a HDR formatted video disc (HDR Blu Ray), otherwise the PQ will be crap in most if not all cases.
Nope - you are turning off the HDR EOTF, but keeping the display in HDR mode, without the need for any metadata.
(This is the basis of the Dolby Vision (manual) calibration mode.)

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/hdr_calibration.html

This is also ideal for using an external LUT box to perform accurate 3D LUT calibration, including the required EOTF, as you can do with LightSpace CMS and a Lumagen LUT box.

Steve
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post #470 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 02:54 AM
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Had a look through all the menus & I am unable to find hours of use. It's no where to be seen.

Also @sillysally are you saying that even in SDR the ABL will kick in when trying to calibrate. So isn't it a must to turn it off to get accurate results?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Had a look through all the menus & I am unable to find hours of use. It's no where to be seen.

US only models, for UK models you need a service remote or a way to get into the service menu main page, which shows hours used, along with how many pixel refreshes etc...
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Can anyone tell me how then as I have lost track of how long I have been using the TV for.

I understand it's dangerous but all I want to do it look at the hours. I am an automotive technician & code/program ECU's for a living and fully understand that one mistake will just brick your device.
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post #473 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi,

There a lot of times where the names of the consumer TV adjustment controls can confuse the users.

LG's are are still using 'IRE' which is unit coming from CRT analog world, for measurements with component video signal, now since a lot of years he have only digital transmission, they have to change the controls to percentages, 10% Gray etc... 100% White.

They say Brightness....someone will think that this is adjusting the display's back-light for more peak output.....the correct term is Black Level.

They say Contrast, the correct term is White Level.

If you are using HCFR, then do this to fix an issue or levels mismatch of AVSHD disk: LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

If you are using CalMAN/ChromaPure then see this: AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration
So IRE means white point percentage? So 100 IRE adjusts the 100% white point?
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post #474 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 02:01 PM
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So IRE means white point percentage? So 100 IRE adjusts the 100% white point?
It's how LG still using the old-school names (from analog world)

Speaking LG's language....100 IRE means 100% White, 95 IRE means 95% Gray etc.
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post #475 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Nope - you are turning off the HDR EOTF, but keeping the display in HDR mode, without the need for any metadata.
(This is the basis of the Dolby Vision (manual) calibration mode.)

See: https://www.lightillusion.com/hdr_calibration.html

This is also ideal for using an external LUT box to perform accurate 3D LUT calibration, including the required EOTF, as you can do with LightSpace CMS and a Lumagen LUT box.

Steve
I have asked you before but you didn't seem to know, what is the wording (code) in the service menu to turn off HDR EOTF.?
I also ask that question in the forum you posted about turning off HDR and also in AVS. There was no reply.

Also the Lumagen doesn't have a license for Dolby Vision, so its a no go for the Lumagen and DV.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-13-2017 at 02:24 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Had a look through all the menus & I am unable to find hours of use. It's no where to be seen.

Also @sillysally are you saying that even in SDR the ABL will kick in when trying to calibrate. So isn't it a must to turn it off to get accurate results?
Not ABL but ASBL. When ASBL kicks in the picture will dim.

So yes you should turn off ASBL, The only way I know how to do that is by accessing the service menu.
However you don't need to turn ASBL off, but its the most efficient way. With the 2017 LG OLED there is about 90 second delay before ASBL kicks in when displaying a static picture. So one for sure workaround would be to keep changing from a widow pattern to a full screen pattern and then back to a window pattern.

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post #477 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 03:37 PM
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I have asked you before but you didn't seem to know, what is the wording (code) in the service menu to turn off HDR EOTF.?
I also ask that question in the forum you posted about turning off HDR and also in AVS. There was no reply.

Also the Lumagen doesn't have a license for Dolby Vision, so its a no go for the Lumagen and DV.

ss
Hi Peter, as I responded last time, we will not supply service remote codes.
The chance for damage is too real.

And I was not suggesting DV calibration with a Lumagen, just pointing out that the concept is the same for calibration.
(Although I guess you could place a HDfury after the Lumagen, for static DV metadata?)

Steve

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post #478 of 561 Old 09-13-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Light Illusion View Post
Hi Peter, as I responded last time, we will not supply service remote codes.
The chance for damage is too real.

And I was not suggesting DV calibration with a Lumagen, just pointing out that the concept is the same for calibration.
(Although I guess you could place a HDfury after the Lumagen, for static DV metadata?)

Steve
Ok. So whats the point of posting that if nobody knows the codes to turn off HDR via in the LG flat panels service menu.
btw Steve, you said in your reply you didn't remember the code.

Also I have calibrated the grayscale per LG's calibration notes in HDR mode, had no image retention or burn in. Plus I have ran a large profile in HDR mode on my EF9500 LG with just a little image retention that went away in a day or two. PQ was very bad using the 3DLUT for HDR/SDR/2020 using the Pro. HDR to SDR convertion was a little better, but not close to the default HDR mode settings in the LG.

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post #479 of 561 Old 09-14-2017, 02:15 AM
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The point of the post is to make users aware of the real potential to permanently destroy the TV.
We have had a couple of TVs killed this way already.
Also, using the service remote voids any warranty...

But, as I located the codes, I'm sure anyone else can do the same if they really want to.
I just do not want to be responsible...

As for using an external LUT box for HDR, you need to be able to disable the TV's internal PQ EOTF for that to work correctly.
You cannot externally 3D LUT calibrate a HDR display that already has a PQ EOTF active, especially if it has tone mapping/roll-off.



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post #480 of 561 Old 09-14-2017, 05:08 AM
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Yes Steve I agree with you about not being able to use a external 3DLUT box for HDR calibration, on a LG HDR OLED. For the reasons you just posted.

I can't say as I blame you for not wanting to help folks go into the service menu.
I have run a 21x3 profile in HDR mode and there was very little issues doing that, as I said in my last post.
Plus I am learning what is the sweet spot for calibrating per LG's HDR calibration release notes. So I keep running sweeps and 21 point Grayscale checks, with no issues at all. Yes I do enter service menu to turn off ASBL. But it should be noted that I use a very fast color meter, so there is much less time a patch remains on my display.

I am happy with the PQ before and happier after calibrating the Grayscale, I was just looking under every rock before I write off using a HDR 3DLUT in the Lumagen Pro 444x for the 2017 LG OLED.

ss

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Last edited by sillysally; 09-14-2017 at 05:12 AM.
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