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post #121 of 166 Old 08-12-2017, 06:46 PM
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post #122 of 166 Old 08-12-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post
Yes you should try again. Seeing a pink tint is a non-starter since, at least for my set, there isn't any red/pink push when done properly.

When you put up a grayscale ramp, on this set, you should see a very neutral ramp with no red push. This set is much, much better using the controls to get to good gray than my pj. I see No red push; just a very smooth gray progression from black to full white
So, is my contrast too high to start then? I'm at contrast 85 and it appears that if i now (after 2-pt cal) bring contrast down to about 78, the pinkish tint goes away. Should i then redo 2-pt with contrast 78 and up the OLED light back to my target 100% nit value?

I tried 20 pt and cleared all previous 2 pt settings. I put up 100 IRE and red was about 94.8%, blue 102.x%, but when i added red, it would change very minimally, even adding 50 to red only bumped red to about 96%.... what am i doing wrong?? i read i should work downwards from 100 to 0, is that correct??
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post #123 of 166 Old 08-13-2017, 01:15 AM
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Anyone know why the 20points WB doesn't do anything? I set the Calman IRE to 95, bring the C7P to 95 and changing Luminance, Red, Green, Blue doesn't do anything. I change the C7P to 90 and still nothing changes from the meter/Calman side.

EDIT: I reset the Dark Room profile and everything went back to normal.

Last edited by rotarydude; 08-13-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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post #124 of 166 Old 08-13-2017, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmpntl529@yahoo.com View Post
So, is my contrast too high to start then? I'm at contrast 85 and it appears that if i now (after 2-pt cal) bring contrast down to about 78, the pinkish tint goes away. Should i then redo 2-pt with contrast 78 and up the OLED light back to my target 100% nit value?

I tried 20 pt and cleared all previous 2 pt settings. I put up 100 IRE and red was about 94.8%, blue 102.x%, but when i added red, it would change very minimally, even adding 50 to red only bumped red to about 96%.... what am i doing wrong?? i read i should work downwards from 100 to 0, is that correct??
No, contrast might be fine but your OLED light might be too high and you are running out of room as red clips. Clipping for one of the channels is usually an indicator that max white is too high (assuming the decoder isn't busted). For ISF Dark my contrast is 85 but OLED light is 44. I can use this for night or day viewing and my room is very bright during the day. But for the middle of the day my ISF Day is same on contrast and OLED light is much higher but I am still not clipping on any of the channels so the controls all work. I find that at the very high output levels the controls for this set become less accurate/able to correct. So, for non-HDR viewing, pick how much light you need for your environment (between 30 and 60 fL), pick which gamma you want, set full white to the level you want, set nit level, set black level, go in and do white balance. Still, when I did HDR white balance I can still get grayscale accurate. (Color space not so much; tint only). Hope this helps.

Oh, for me it doesn't matter whether I work 0 up or 100 down. I tend to go from where my last changes left me in the range last and do the most off first before going to the easy ones.

Last edited by jqmn; 08-13-2017 at 05:54 AM.
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post #125 of 166 Old 08-13-2017, 06:43 AM
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LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

I apologize for being off topic but I'm getting no response in the owners thread. Can anyone in this thread confirm that the ABL does not engage when using the "HDR effect" setting. I've noticed it myself but wanted confirmation from others that this is happening on their panel's as well. Thank you:-). Also wondering what peak brightness is on a 100% window if it has been measured in this (hdr effect) mode.


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post #126 of 166 Old 08-13-2017, 07:14 PM
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So after spending the entire weekend calibrating at 100cdm2 @ 30FL for BT1886 vs 100cdm2 @ 30 with Power Gamma 2.35 for comparison. I think the gamma 2.35 doesn't crush the black as much... but I think 2.32 or 2.33 ish or 2.30 is would be better. imo. Anyone tried 2.32ish?
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post #127 of 166 Old 08-13-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgrds View Post
From LG calibration notes:



Anyone know exactly what this means?
Edge Enhancer 'On' recommended.

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post #128 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 03:19 AM
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So would anyone like to tell me if they think these out of box readings for left hand edge of screen is "normal"....considering the center and right hand screen readings track quite closely to each other and right hand side is close to DELTA E 3.0.

To the eye i can clearly see yellowish/brown 1 - 2 inch staining from top to bottom on the left hand side when looking at the grey scale slides.

These are pre-calibration readings of ISF Bright Room - out of box - nothing modified. My concern is that the left hand edge is well out of what is acceptable, because in order to bring the left hand edge numbers down would mean destroying the readings in the center and right. If i calibrate based on just the center then that will have very litttle impact on the left hand readings, its not going to make DELTA E > 7 come down below 3 is it.


Basically considering the center and right hand side readings is it fair to say this TV is defective, and the left hand readings cannot be brought into spec without ruining the center and right readings?


Oh and its a 65" C7 - has been used for more than >120 hours.


Cheers
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post #129 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 05:36 AM
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Uniformity out of box was messed up for me. After a few days of use and regular compensation cycles things cleared up drastically.

Edit:
By regular I mean I left the TV alone to perform the automatic +4hr cycles. My eye and meter readings haven't led me to believe any manual cycles are required and rather than put undue life use on the OLEDs I've stayed this way.

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post #130 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Edge Enhancer 'On' recommended.

Ok but why? Source? Thanks!


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post #131 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 09:16 AM
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LG themselves. It's in a PDF on their website. I'm out right now but will link to it later. Apparently set to on defeats a function of enhancement correctly. Why it's setup this way we will never know.

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post #132 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydude View Post
Anyone know why the 20points WB doesn't do anything? I set the Calman IRE to 95, bring the C7P to 95 and changing Luminance, Red, Green, Blue doesn't do anything. I change the C7P to 90 and still nothing changes from the meter/Calman side.

EDIT: I reset the Dark Room profile and everything went back to normal.
i am having the same problem. i reset all my 2 pt settings and used ISF Dark, starting at 100 IRE.

My red is down about 6%, and no matter how much red i put in (even +50), it barely moves....

I'm not sure what to do, other than to just use 2 point, or try another IRE like 90.
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post #133 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmpntl529@yahoo.com View Post
i am having the same problem. i reset all my 2 pt settings and used ISF Dark, starting at 100 IRE.

My red is down about 6%, and no matter how much red i put in (even +50), it barely moves....

I'm not sure what to do, other than to just use 2 point, or try another IRE like 90.
like I said I use the "Reset All Setting" under the ISF dark room profile and it finally matched. Showing 100 IRE on Calman, and then using the 20pts 100 IRE worked.
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post #134 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaken2000 View Post
Ok but why? Source? Thanks!
Here you go:
LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

Thanks to jqmn

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post #135 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNeat View Post
Thank you, very interesting.

"The ‘Edge Enhancer’ setting in the Expert Picture Mode Settings does
not increase sharpness; the default ‘On’ setting is a bypass function, and
is therefore recommended"

Also interesting at the end of the document:

Control of the ‘Active HDR’ feature is found in the ‘Dynamic Contrast’ setting in the Expert
Picture Settings menu. In HDR mode, the Dynamic Contrast settings are defined as follows:

• Off - Active HDR Disabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Low - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Medium - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Low
• High - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement High

The default setting of ‘Low’ is recommended for accurate content reproduction.

We already knew that Dynamic Contrast to Low activated "Active HDR". But it's the first time I see mentionned that depending on the Dynamic Contrast setting that it also impacts the "Contrast Enhancement".

Good find, thanks! I might repost this in the Owner's thread.
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post #136 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 12:56 PM
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^

Yeah I was pretty amazed at the info too. I presume everyone is using one of the ISF expert modes...
I couldn't tell any perceived difference changing on and off on a paused picture but perhaps it does things deeper inside the processing or only begins to apply on future frames once selected. I now have it enabled for HD and UHD sources and all inputs.

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post #137 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaken2000 View Post
Thank you, very interesting.

"The ‘Edge Enhancer’ setting in the Expert Picture Mode Settings does
not increase sharpness; the default ‘On’ setting is a bypass function, and
is therefore recommended"

Also interesting at the end of the document:

Control of the ‘Active HDR’ feature is found in the ‘Dynamic Contrast’ setting in the Expert
Picture Settings menu. In HDR mode, the Dynamic Contrast settings are defined as follows:

• Off - Active HDR Disabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Low - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Medium - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Low
• High - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement High

The default setting of ‘Low’ is recommended for accurate content reproduction.

We already knew that Dynamic Contrast to Low activated "Active HDR". But it's the first time I see mentionned that depending on the Dynamic Contrast setting that it also impacts the "Contrast Enhancement".

Good find, thanks! I might repost this in the Owner's thread.

Dynamic Contrast: Low (aka Active HDR) behaves differently in HDR Cinema Home and HDR Cinema modes.
HDR Standard with Dynamic Contrast: Off seems to use different tone-mapping for different disks mastered at the same max nits.
I'll report more on this later with specific titles.

- Rich
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post #138 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 01:09 PM
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Just to add to Rich's post.

I would leave Dynamic Contrast off for SDR. It seems to mess with dynamic range if set to low.

Turn on to low for HDR 4000 nit Blu Ray movies, it seems to raise the floor from .0007 (most 1000 nit movies) to .005 nits (most 4000 nit movies), if Dynamic Contrast if turned on to Low setting.

See the last to pages in the Ghost in the Shell Ultra HD Blu-ray Review.
This movie is what I am basing my findings on, so the above may not apply to all HDR movies.
iow, try both (Off, Low) settings when using HDR video and see what looks best for your eyes.
Remember the 'metadata' and how LG processes the video is controlling all of the video playback, along with any settings you are using.

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post #139 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaken2000 View Post
Thank you, very interesting.

"The ‘Edge Enhancer’ setting in the Expert Picture Mode Settings does
not increase sharpness; the default ‘On’ setting is a bypass function, and
is therefore recommended"

Also interesting at the end of the document:

Control of the ‘Active HDR’ feature is found in the ‘Dynamic Contrast’ setting in the Expert
Picture Settings menu. In HDR mode, the Dynamic Contrast settings are defined as follows:

• Off - Active HDR Disabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Low - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
• Medium - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Low
• High - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement High

The default setting of ‘Low’ is recommended for accurate content reproduction.

We already knew that Dynamic Contrast to Low activated "Active HDR". But it's the first time I see mentionned that depending on the Dynamic Contrast setting that it also impacts the "Contrast Enhancement".

Good find, thanks! I might repost this in the Owner's thread.
The Edge Enhancer setting the document is only referencing HDR. It should turned off in SDR.
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post #140 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
The Edge Enhancer setting the document is only referencing HDR. It should turned off in SDR.
Thank you. I've edited my post in the C7-B7 Owner's thread with that information.
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post #141 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
The Edge Enhancer setting the document is only referencing HDR. It should turned off in SDR.


Thank you D-nice I was trying to find that out. I will disable for SDR.

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post #142 of 166 Old 08-14-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz-HanSolo View Post
So would anyone like to tell me if they think these out of box readings for left hand edge of screen is "normal"
There is something wrong with your metering procedure. 90% white should not be brighter (Y value) than 100%. What kind of test patterns are you using? Whole screen or smaller windows?
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post #143 of 166 Old 08-15-2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by northrob View Post
There is something wrong with your metering procedure. 90% white should not be brighter (Y value) than 100%. What kind of test patterns are you using? Whole screen or smaller windows?
Thanks for looking.

So i used Fullscreen HCFR Greyscale patterns. NOTE: i took readings out of the box - and i mean "out of the box" so OLED/Contrast/Color/Brightness, any picture pre-processing etc were ALL left as they were.

As with any scientific testing the most important part is that the test conditions are the same, which they were. The only difference in my testing the center/left and right of the screen was the "position" of the meter i.e. it was positioned in the center, then the left and then the right..... maybe for those readings the meter didn't sit flat on screen - would that cause it??

I made no adjustments to ANY TV settings and just swapped the patterns when prompted by HCFR to do so - it did the rest.

I have some readings that i took AFTER changing the contrast/oled list/brightness - do those look more what you would expect? All i did was do a 2 point white balance adjustment, i didn't mess about with luminance or anything, just adjusted the Red and Blue - left green alone. When i did the WB adjustment i used fullscreen pattern again with meter on center of screen (thought being as taking reading using full pattern i should calibrate it using full pattern...right).

All i am trying to discern is that the LEFT edge is SO FAR out that it cannot be fixed by calibration alone.

Also see image of the actual issue - left edge screen. The white bar is half dirty, its meant to be white.

Basically LG have said they will send an engineer over to "repair" it - but i can't see how they could, apart from replacing the actual screen?

cheers
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post #144 of 166 Old 08-15-2017, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz-HanSolo View Post
Thanks for looking.

So i used Fullscreen HCFR Greyscale patterns.
Automatic brightness limiter (ABL) limits brightness when fullscreen patterns are used. Although ABL on 17 models is less aggressive it is better to use window patterns for normal calibration. Maybe max 50 % area. With HCFR that can be set up in Measures -> Generator -> Gonfigure -> Image area. Make sure also that Display mode is GDI. That is if you use the automatic HCFR generator.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz-HanSolo View Post
Also see image of the actual issue - left edge screen. The white bar is half dirty, its meant to be white.
It seems yellowish and surprisigly it is brighter than center and right side. Can you provide RGB charts too so it is easier to see the difference.
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post #145 of 166 Old 08-15-2017, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northrob View Post
Automatic brightness limiter (ABL) limits brightness when fullscreen patterns are used. Although ABL on 17 models is less aggressive it is better to use window patterns for normal calibration. Maybe max 50 % area. With HCFR that can be set up in Measures -> Generator -> Gonfigure -> Image area. Make sure also that Display mode is GDI. That is if you use the automatic HCFR generator.




It seems yellowish and surprisigly it is brighter than center and right side. Can you provide RGB charts too so it is easier to see the difference.
Attached RGB graph for Left, Center and Right.


Regarding window patterns - the problem is the patterns i have from HCFR are displayed in center screen, running them off a usb stick. So your saying i should connect my laptop HDMI out into the TV and generate patterns directly in HCFR and position them - cool will give that a go.

Cheers
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post #146 of 166 Old 08-15-2017, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northrob View Post
It seems yellowish.
It is, believe me, its like a yellow tint from top to bottom about 2 to 3 inches wide. Someone said to me it is caused by too much screen resin being used when putting the screen together. If i look really closely i can see what looks like blotches all over it - the funny thing is if you stand to the right of the TV its not as noticeable.

The right of the TV seems perfectly normal in comparison.

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post #147 of 166 Old 08-15-2017, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz-HanSolo View Post
Regarding window patterns - the problem is the patterns i have from HCFR are displayed in center screen, running them off a usb stick. So your saying i should connect my laptop HDMI out into the TV and generate patterns directly in HCFR and position them - cool will give that a go.
If you want the HCFR patterns on sides of screen use Measures -> Generator -> Gonfigure -> Floating window. It is also good if you open a dark/black full screen image to the screen too. So after you press Measure grey scale, minimize the HCFR so there is only the dark underlaying image and the floating window to prevent any ABL.

For normal calibration use 10-50 % window patterns or HCFR generator GDI. It is also better to use 5, 10, 15 % etc brightness if you use 20 pt calibration. That can be changed Measures -> Parameters -> Number of grayscale levels (20).
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I used 18% APL or less. I have noticed that if the pattern stays on for more than a minute (maybe 45-50sec) it starts to dim...
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post #149 of 166 Old 08-16-2017, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Adventures in Tone-Mapping
I setup the three HDR modes: Standard, Cinema Home, and Cinema modes with similar settings to compare them.
The Standard and Cinema Home modes do not have white-balance controls. For these modes, W50 matches the Warm2 color temperature.
Enhancements were turned off with the exception of Dynamic Contrast which is set to Low to enable Active HDR for the Cinema Home and Cinema modes.
Dynamic Contrast was set to Off for HDR Standard mode.

Once set, switching between modes allows comparison of the different tone mapping can be demonstrated.
The Oppo UPD-205 Info screens white text overlays were used to trigger tone-mapping.

LG Tone-Mapping and Active HDR
LG has implemented aggressive tone-mapping that dims the entire image when engaged.
Tone-mapping begins below 100 nits which reduces the overall brightness (APL) that removes the HDR pop.
This is a deviation from the PQ EOTF. Active HDR restores the PQ EOTF tracking and HDR pop.
The tone-mapping appears to be the same in all modes but different in degree based on the static metadata.

HDR Standard without Active HDR
For most UHD titles this mode uses none, or almost no, tone-mapping. The mid-tones pop and the bright-areas that exceed the display light output are blown-out with no detail. Standard mode is useful as a baseline. For some reason, Suicide Squad HDR is dimmer in Standard mode than Cinema modes when Active HDR is engaged. I am not sure why this title is different than all the others I have tried.

HDR Cinema Home
Active HDR (Dynamic Contrast: Low) works very well and for scenes without large areas of spectral highlights, it is indistinguishable from Standard mode. The Oppo Info screen does not dim the image but the extended Info (long press) dims the image. Spectral highlight detail is preserved but the overall image is darker when this occurs.

HDR Cinema
HDR Cinema behaves like Cinema home but transitions to tone-mapping when the Oppo Info button is pressed.

Right now, I use Cinema Home with Active HDR (DC: Low) and it works very well at tracking PQ EOTF and also preserving detail in spectral highlights.

The settings and some the titles tested are attached.

- Rich
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ToneMapping.jpg (93.5 KB, 50 views)
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Last edited by RichB; 08-17-2017 at 07:00 AM.
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post #150 of 166 Old 08-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings

Interesting stuff RichB. I look forward to more of your discoveries.


Are you finding different HDR discs mastered to varying brightness levels? It's annoying the hell out of me.

LGOLED55C7P - Calman Enthusiast - I1Display / I1Pro

Last edited by PeteNeat; 08-17-2017 at 06:57 AM.
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